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My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Storage

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GNV
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My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Storage

Postby GNV » Tue May 26, 2015 11:49 pm

IMG_A.jpg
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Here are my two ORIONS one purchased purchased in DEC 2012 and the other purchased in FEB 2013 from AIMCO online. Both are from the earlier batches one has a serial number AB00429 ( DEC 2012 ) the second one has AC00261 ( FEB 2013 ). When I received my first one I immediately tried to fit a scope and found that the scope mounting grooves were not properly machined and the scope mounts are not fixing solidly. I tried to correct the fault with a Dremel Tool and a cutting disc and as expected completely ruined it. So I e-mailed the DOCTOR explaining the situation and asking him if they would sell me a new receiver cylinder. The DOCTOR replied that the incorrect scope grooves were due to the machinists fault and advised me to send the gun to the factory and they would replace the cylinder free of cost and send it back. I thanked the DOCTOR and sent my gun to their factory by courier. By the time it reached them they temporarily stopped production to iron out the faults in their earlier production guns. The Precihole people informed me that they would repair and replace all the earlier faulty parts and send it back to me once the production starts again which would take a month or so. Being an impatient fellow I immediately purchased my second ORION from aimco.co.in and this too is from the earlier batches and suffered from the initial problems like sight pins drifting out and trigger blade screw getting loose every few shots, which to me are small things ( but quiet annoying ) and were corrected by applying locktite. This gun has correct scope mounting grooves. I started shooting with that gun after a break of nearly 20 years ( since mid 1990's). I have been using this gun since then mostly for fun plinking and so far some 2000 JSB EXACTs and some 1000 various Indian pellets passed through its barrel. I keep this gun at my farm where I do all my shooting safely. I received my first ORION I sent to Precihole factory in the month of March,2013. They replaced the loose rear sight pins with correct sized pins and replaced the trigger screw with a bigger one and of course fitted a new cylinder tube with properly cut scope mounting grooves. They also rectified barrel drooping problem to great extent. Both my ORIONS have excessive barrel drooping in my opinion. Now this one has a much less drooping than the other one. After firing a few test shots thinking that all was well with my gun I wiped the gun with oil soaked tissue paper as I always do after handling a gun and before storing it and packed it in the polythene bag and the cardboard box it came in and stored it away in a cupboard in my bedroom and completely forgot it for nearly 2 years and two months. :stupid: Only few weeks ago I realized that there is one thing seriously wrong with my first ORION.
A few months ago shooting bug had bitten me for the second time in my life. This time this is a target shooting bug. So I decided to get myself more involved in my hobby again. So I started to get the equipment and other required things. I got my shooting Chrony Beta model chronograph. I purchased spare springs, Piston washers, Breach seals, Precihole Moly, Klin Lube oil and a Precihole Gas Piston from kovibaza.com. I made a spring compressor and when I got everything together I opened the box in which my practically unused ORION was lying for the past 26 months only to find like shown in the below picture. It was the result of zero care plus effects of the weather variations of 3 summers+2 winters + 2 rainy seasons. :stupid:
Also shown ae my two ORIONS. The one in the foreground is the Unused ORION. While the one in the background is the one regularly used and well taken care of. Whenever I use a gun I always wipe the dust off and wipe all the exposed metal with a tissue paper dipped in Singer Machine Oil giving a light film of oil before putting it in its canvas carrying bag.
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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:22 pm

IMG_7561.JPG
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A few weeks ago I disassembled my first ORION after studying the drawing of the Trigger Assembly posted by Mr.Prateek in ifg forum and understanding how the trigger works. I removed the barrel and Trigger parts and fitted the cylinder in a spring compressor and uncompressed the gun and removed the spring, spring guide etc but I was unable to slide the piston out. The rear portion of the piston is getting struck about 2 cm in front of the trigger housing in the cylinder. I had to insert a screw driver through the cocking slot and hammer the piston all the way out of the cylinder. I was surprised to find such a fault in a gun as well made as this one. I found the piston to be okay. I reinserted the Piston into the cylinder and it would not go in freely. The front portion would go in freely but the rear portion is getting struck in the cylinder about 2cm in front of the Trigger housing even before the piston enters the Trigger sear area. I had to insert a wooden dowel through the rear end of the cylinder after putting the piston in and hammer the piston untill it clears that area. Obviously the cylinder is deformed in that area. And I don't understand how the mechanic who assembled the gun overlooked this fault and passed this gun for delivery. Even though the spring power is overcoming the friction in that area when the gun is fired a lot of the springs energy would be lost in freeing the piston in that area. Later Chronographing the gun proved this to be correct. This gun is giving an average energy of 8.6 ft-lbs at 493 fps with JSB EXACTS and 6.2 ft-lbs at 433 fps with GSmith High Force pellets. I decided not to fit the Nitro Piston in this gun. So cleaned and Lubricated it properly and assembled it again. Now what shall I do ?

Three days ago I disassembled my second ORION and pleased to find that everything is okay with it and fitted the Nitro Piston. I was pretty much impressed with its slick action and today evening I started to chronograph it and was pretty much pleased with the initial results. The gun was shooting 15.89 grain JSB EXACTS at an average 572 fps and giving 11.5 ft.lbs energy in the first string of 10 shots.
Happily I proceeded to shoot 10 shot strings of some 10 different pellets and at the end shot one more string of 10 shots with JSBs and surprised to find the average velocity fell to 542 fps. I was wondering what is going on and just then noticed that oil is leaking through the Trigger port. I was so engrossed with shooting that I did not notice when it started. There was a lot of it. I have not disassembled the gun yet but started to write this post. Obviously this Nitro Piston also failed. It seems as if all my first purchases of Precihole Sports Guns/Products are Jinxed. I paid 2750/- INR plus shipping for this Nitro Piston at kovibazar.com.
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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:26 pm

IMG_7609.JPG
My stupid ORION #1 with a faulty cylinder and under performing shot this group of 10 shots of JSB EXACT pellets @ average 493 fps for 8.6 ft.lbs energy at 10 mts from a sitting position.
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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:47 pm

My Shooting Chrony Beta.
IMG_7599.JPG

I was shooting with the Chrony too close to a wall without a pellet catcher at the wall and a ricocheting pellet did this to my chrony's rear sensor box.
IMG_7600.JPG

Luckily no damage to the chrony done
IMG_7601.JPG

I hope to repair the damage to the rear sensor enclosure with M Seal Putty.
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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:51 pm

Aha Now I also learned how to place photos properly after each comment. :D
Last edited by GNV on Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.



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GNV
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Location: Tadepalligudem, Andhra Pradesh.

Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:09 am

I want to post a photo illustrated step by step process of complete disassembling , Lubricating and Reassembling of PRECIHOLE Air Rifles. Now I know how to do it properly :D . Experienced air gunners may not need those instructions but since many new to air gun shooters are buying Precihole Guns I hope those instructions may be of some use to them. If one has a spring compressor anybody can disassemble and Reassemble these guns very easily. These guns are not at all complicated. An excellent Design. Simple and Pretty good performance. Only I wish their QC is much stringent and faulty guns don't find their way to dealers due to the stupidity of the mechanics who assemble those guns.



pratik_mahale
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby pratik_mahale » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:54 pm

Hi GNV
Glad to hear that the trigger diagram is helping people
It normal to leak oil though trigger unit for first few 100 shots & it’s also written in the Gun manual
I think because of the lubrication in cylinder its giving you some more fps for fist few shots
Did you also change the piston seal?



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Basu
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby Basu » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:36 pm

Dear GNV,
10.4 ft/lbs is a decent power to shoot with.
The initial stings might have influence of lubes present in the chamber.
I do not think that Nitro failed.Had it been so , you would not have achieved the said power.

Basu


Not all those wander , are lost...............

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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:14 am

Today I disassembled the Nitro Piston fitted ORION and found these. Is this normal ?
IMG_7612.JPG

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@ Prateek,
Your drawing is indeed a great help. Without it I think I would not have disassembled the trigger with a peaceful mind and without apprehension. Thank you once again. The nitro piston came with a new piston seal fitted and a new back cap. The back cap for the nitro piston is slightly different from the one with spring piston. The old one has a larger hole in which the spring guide sits. I cleaned the cylinder and gave a very very light coat of moly to the cylinder walls and the areas of the piston which comes into contact with the cylinder walls.
@ Basu,
There was no dieseling at all. The blackened piston washer in the photo is due to the leaked oil mixing with the moly. After cleaning the piston and washer look like this.
IMG_7628.JPG


Please tell me if this is normal.
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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:51 pm

The end cap on the piston rod of my nitro piston looks different to the one shown in preciholesports website. See the below photos
NP Endcap.jpg

NP1.jpg

NP2.jpg


Is this normal or did I end up with an original fake as chineese call it.

Dear Prateek and Basu please educate me. Is it :) or :(

Regards,
GNV
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pratik_mahale
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby pratik_mahale » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:24 pm

The oil leaking is normal & when I installed NP in my gun I use the same end cap
Initially when I installed NP in my gun it was giving around 12 ft-lbs power but soon it settled down at 11 ft-lbs



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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:52 pm

Just before posting the difficulties I am facing with my first ORION and the Nitro Piston here, I e-mailed Dr.Y.P.Shirsat stating my problems and received his reply yesterday. I don't know if it is proper to post a personal mail in an open forum. But I am posting it anyway since there is nothing sensitive in it and saves me a lot of typing on the keyboard to explain its contents. My last e-mail before the one I sent to the Doctor a few days ago was on 10-04-2013. This e-mail however proves that Precihole Sports do care for their customer's feedback and tries to help them. Here is the mail I received:

Yogendra Shirsat
Jun 6 (2 days ago)

to Sarfaraz, smulla, me
Dear Mr. Rao,
Thank you for supporting us.
As you know we faced QC issues in the beginning of our production. Gradually we worked to resolve these.
Actually the receivers are supposed to be passed after gauging. Possibly your first Orion was manufactured before this process was introduced. Later the geometry of the barrel to breech was also changed to have better uniformity to prevent excess barrel droop, hence the present production receiver assembly may not fit your earlier barrel assembly. What used to happen in the earlier batches was that the receiver would distort when the trigger box was welded due to excess current and thick wire used. This process has subsequently been refined and the problem sorted. Regarding your problem I would suggest you try polishing the rear end of the receiver tube with rough and then fine emery and see if the problem is solved. We can try to see if present production receiver will fit your barrel if you send it to us but it is unlikely to fit.

Regarding the Nitro unit I think the drop in power is not significant and attributable to burning off of excess lubricant. Do not remove the unit from the receiver tube but continue about 500 shots which is the real time it takes for a piston powered gun to really settle. If you face any problem we will replace the Nitro unit free of cost. The leakage of oil is normal in the first 200 to 250 shots so dont worry unless the power drops to unacceptable limit.

Once again thanks for writing to us and giving us valuable feedback.

Regards.

Dr. Y.P.Shirsat

p.s. : You can also mail me on [email protected]


So I decided to try polishing the Receiver tube to correct the distortion and see if it works. I pray to God that it works because a new current production receiver may not fit my old ORION's barrel. If polishing doesn't work then I'll send my guns action to their factory to see if the new receiver fits. If it doesn't fit then I'll try to convince myself that I never purchased my first ORION.

After trying to fix my first ORION , I intend to shoot at least 500 pellets from my NP ORION and see if it settles down as the Doctor advised. Hope everything works out okay.

GNV



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GNV
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby GNV » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:39 am

Last evening I tried polishing the inside of the receiver tube of my ORION as advised by Dr.Shirsat and it worked :D :D :D . Now the piston is moving very smoothly in the receiver tube. But instead of fitting the spring piston and chronograph it to see what difference in fps with the now free moving piston I very foolishly fitted the Nitro Piston which I had already taken out of my other ORION. So I'll test the Nitro Piston with this gun and after that refit it with the spring piston, chronograph it and compare the pre fix data I already have with the post fix data.



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ak27
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Re: My two ORIONS and the results of proper and improper Sto

Postby ak27 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:52 am

GNV wrote:Last evening I tried polishing the inside of the receiver tube of my ORION as advised by Dr.Shirsat and it worked :D :D :D . Now the piston is moving very smoothly in the receiver tube. But instead of fitting the spring piston and chronograph it to see what difference in fps with the now free moving piston I very foolishly fitted the Nitro Piston which I had already taken out of my other ORION. So I'll test the Nitro Piston with this gun and after that refit it with the spring piston, chronograph it and compare the pre fix data I already have with the post fix data.


Congrats, GNV!! :clap:

Now, waiting for the chrony data and also some pics.


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Ben Franklin


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