IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

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TenX
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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by TenX » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:11 pm

yash3_great";p="51554 wrote: My experience has also been that the Gsmith pellets r very tight for an IHP both in .177 and .22 cal. I believe the reason is becuase the calibre of IHP rifles is not exact but a little less. At times the pellet is so tight that it gets damaged while inserting into the chamber.
Never ever use pellets that are damaged, disfigured or as Yash says "...that it gets damaged while inserting...". This is 'Bhayankar Hanikar' to the rifle. Like I said earlier, there may be a small variation in the pellets (Not the rifle barrel), which is made for new to old guns.

kitty";p="51553 wrote: HI tenX,
Can you guide me how to adjust the sights of rirel to shoot acuratly....?
> If the shots go to 12 O'clock, move vertical adjustment clockwise.
> If the shots go to 6 O'clock, move vertical adjustment anti-clockwise.
> If the shots go to 3 O'clock, move horizontal adjustment clockwise.
> If the shots go to 9 O'clock, move horizontal adjustment anti-clockwise.
> For shots going to other angles, a combination of the horizontal and vertical adjustment is required. First make changes in the horizontal adjustment and get the shots in the line of 12 O'clock and 6 O'clock. Now make required vertical adjustments to score a medal winning match :)

Here is a greater detail of the sight adjustments:
Data:
Rear sight is the one that sits with the 'V' closer to the shooters eye; Fore-sight is the one that sits with the '|' on the tip of the barrel; No adjustments can be made generally for the fore-sight, unless there is a huge variation and the foresight needs to be filed.

Understanding the Theory:
There are two planes of adjusting the rifle (or pistol) sights. I shall try to be as de.scriptive without images.
The first is the vertical alignment (top-bottom line) which is controlled by the main (big) round knob directly on top of the center of the rear sight. By moving this clock-wise, the rear sight goes down, which in turn makes the pellet shoot lower. By moving this in an anti-clockwise direction, the rear sight moves up, which in turn makes the shooter aim with the fore-sight higher to adjust to the change in trajectory path, and the pellet shoots higher. The rear sight vertical adjustment knob has numbers and can be checked with the number of 'clicks' that one can feel while adjusting the same.
The second adjustment, which is the Horizontal adjustment (left-Right line) is got about by the side knobs of the rear sight. Some rear sights may have two knobs, one on either side, but the IHP has one to the right of the rear sight. You may need a screw-driver to make adjustments for this. There are no clicks provided in the IHP too. Moving the knob in a clock-wise direction, will in turn move the rear end of the rear sight to the LEFT. This will make the shooter aim a little to the left resulting in pellets going more to the left, and vice-versa (Anti-clockwise will result in pellets going to the right)

Adjusting the rear sight aperture:
Apart from this, some IHP guns have a small adjustment to change the rear sight view from 'V' to 'U' to 'v' or 'Џ'. To make this adjustment, slightly press the small spring based protrusion directly behind the 'V' and turn the small plate that projects out on the rear of the rear sight. This is a little hard to explain without a diagram, but is a small adjustment which a few seconds of curiosity and learning will make one perfect.

That is the basic theory part of the application.

Putting theory into Practice:
Now to put them into practical use, what a shooter should be advised is to shoot atleast 3 shoots on the target, without scoring. This gives a general direction of where the grouping is. Based on this, required corrections are to be made with a few clicks at a time, and another sighting of about three shots be made before making more sight changes. Once again the general changed grouping should be noted and required adequate clicks made in the rear sight.
> If the shots go to 12 O'clock, move vertical adjustment clockwise.
> If the shots go to 6 O'clock, move vertical adjustment anti-clockwise.
> If the shots go to 3 O'clock, move horizontal adjustment clockwise.
> If the shots go to 9 O'clock, move horizontal adjustment anti-clockwise.
> For shots going to other angles, a combination of the horizontal and vertical adjustment is required. First make changes in the horizontal adjustment and get the shots in the line of 12 O'clock and 6 O'clock. Now make required vertical adjustments to score a medal winning match :)

Note:
1. For some shooters, there will be a big change from 'benching' the gun, and from holding it. This is based on the shooters stance and grip.
2. Some rifles may shoot drrastically to the bottom, and the least setting of the rear-sight may not be helpful. For such situations, one will have to slightly file the fore sight, so that the shots come closer to the center. This adjustment has no CTRL-Z to it!!!
3. It is good for shooters to note the numerical changes of the main rear sight adjustment (vertical) between different distances. That way, the shooter can quickly make rear sight vertical changes by approximating the distance of the target, and get good accuracy from the first shot itself. (For example, if '3' is read for a 10 m target, and '9' is required for 20m, this can be memorized/recorded for quick adaptation.). This may not be same across different rifles.
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Post by dev » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:00 pm

Hey Ten X,

Could we have the shooting manual that you've worked on. Its nice of you to to write such detailed stuff. But if ye had a soft copy...it might get easier.

Salutations,

Dev
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Post by TenX » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:45 pm

Hi Dev.
My shooting manual is 'Still under construction' :(
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Post by SRI 420 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:51 am

Hi TenX,
Thank you very much for explaining the adjustment of sights, this is very useful. When do you plan to complete the Shooting Manual, I would also like a copy of the same please.
Thanks once again
Srinivas
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Post by TenX » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:16 am

I must thank you all for your interest. I will re-commence the book at once :)
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Post by mundaire » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:07 am

TenX";p="51604 wrote: I must thank you all for your interest. I will re-commence the book at once :)
Excellent stuff TenX, do let me know whenever it is done (and if you have any other nuggets as well) and I will upload it to the "knowledge base" here for everyone's ready reference.

Cheers!
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Post by Mack The Knife » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:40 pm

TenX";p="51604 wrote:I must thank you all for your interest. I will re-commence the book at once :)
When it's finished, I will edit it. Cannot have beginners falling asleep in 'class'...

:P

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Post by TenX » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:30 pm

Hmm... cannot have them running away scared either :) :) :)
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Post by kitty » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:13 pm

Hi TenX thank you very much for explaining the sight adjustment.

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Post by Mack The Knife » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:27 pm

TenX";p="51654 wrote:Hmm... cannot have them running away scared either :) :) :)
Rubbish! I have the milk of human kindness running in my veins and never, not ever, has a cross word or look have I bequeathed on my poxy pupils. As witness to my claim, I call forward Pran, Inder, Ranjeet..... On seond thoughts, that's probably not such a good idea.

:mrgreen:

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Post by TenX » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:29 pm

Haha.. :)
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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by ronish » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:33 am

hello rustham & tenx. need your valuable advice
last week i bought a national 25 of .17 calibre. shot 500 pellets through it, but still iam getting very bad grouping . the trigger mechanism felt too tight (as i feels numbness on index finger after a continious 10 shots).so i dismantled the gun to see what is wrong with it, & found that there are many projected metal parts around the trigger hole(the hole that permits the pin to hold it to the cylinder), i filed it out and now it is ok.

one more thing i noticed was , after cocking the gun the loading lever is rubbing against the compressed spring ,so ununiform pressure is felt on my hand if i close the barrel very slowly. the groupings are very bad about 3 inches from 10 mts with any brand of pellets( iam getting regular sub 1 inch group with my n 35 .17, but not able to get this on my new n25, trying all shooting techniques that i know. diff stances , diff pellets , prone position etc .checked breech seal, piston seal, barrel crowning ,sights, barrel pivot joint etc & its ok)

will filing the end of loading lever that rubs on the spring works?

if its not please let me know what is the problem with the gun.

waiting for your valuable reply. thanks

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Post by Mack The Knife » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:14 pm

Make sure that the stock screws are adequately tight and do not come loose. Ditto for the sights.

Check the crown for burrs.

The scraping of the cocking link on the main-spring shouldn't affect accuracy. You can check the cocking link shoe for roughness but do not overdo the filing in case it is called for.

If the cocking shoe does not have a rough surface (which will most probably be the case), you can sleeve the piston from inside or use a main-spring with a smaller outer diameter.

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Post by TenX » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:24 pm

Its good that you rectified the trigger problem. Many a times, this seems to be one of the bigger bugs in getting a good grouping.

Some of the most important causes of bad grouping in air rifles are because of
1. Loose stock screws - two on either side, and one thru the trigger-guard (as Rustum has mentioned). Clean the screws and use a thread-lock if possible. Check for tightness occasionally.
2. Loose rear sights (as Rustum's mention). Check if there is any lateral of any type of play.
3. An unclean barrel, which might mostly not be your case.
4. Pellet matching the rifle. Different pellets may give different groupings, which you muct know. But the variation may not always be large. Use what best suits your gun.
5. Shooting technique. HAT - Holding Aiming Trigger Operation. Most important is consistency for all shots. But if you bench the rifle for checking the grouping, this should be much easier to verify. Try to firmly rest the rifle against a sand pillow or something similar (even a well folded rug will do), and check grouping. If you get a good grouping, then your holding may be the problem. If the recoil is not well managed by the shooter, it results in changes to the follow thru and eventually a bad grouping.

Frankly, I have not experimented with the cocking shoe and have no comments on that.
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Re: IHP "National" air rifles & pistols

Post by ronish » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:07 am

thank you, rustham & tenx for the reply.now i will check all these that have been mentioned, will post the results after doing that. :)

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