Are?

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James_Bond
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Are?

Post by James_Bond » Tue May 20, 2014 10:16 pm

Which one is the best for Self defance in Indian seneario . pump Action( cartidges capicty 4 to 6 Approx), DBBL SXS( cartidges capicty 2 only), Auto loader( cartidges capicty 4 to 8 ) .
With Regards
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Re: Are?

Post by wildhoghunter » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:27 pm

James_Bond wrote:Which one is the best for Self defance in Indian seneario . pump Action( cartidges capicty 4 to 6 Approx), DBBL SXS( cartidges capicty 2 only), Auto loader( cartidges capicty 4 to 8 ) .

Hello James
Defence against thieves and goons : just show a empty double barrel shotgun.
Defence against robbers: Loaded double12 or loaded pump action shotgun.
Defence against terrorists:auto loader.
NOW THE REAL DEFENCE STARTS
DEFENCE AGAINST POLICE AND LAW :a truck load of money, political influence, extra brain and expect to invest your remaining life span. : ( :( :

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Re: Are?

Post by dr.jayakumar » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:53 pm

run for your life'' thee'' best option.
next depends more on how well you are trained with your weapon,more than the weapon you have.
regards
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Re: Are?

Post by aadhaulya » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Shot gun for self defense. I suppose we are talking about home defense..
There is no place to run and considering that the guns stored at home are kept unloaded.
The only option I see is quick loading of the weapon and the DBBL would be the fastest to load and two cartridges should normally be enough to handle any general situation.

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Re: Are?

Post by StampMaster » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:07 pm

Surprisingly, I would say to have peace with the intruder or handover our-self. :x

With bureaucracy and red-tapism at various levels it easy to surrender to the intruder else be ready to grease the palms of officials...

Read a recent incident http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 301_1.html. And the poor fellow who saved his family is running around to get his case proved.
”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

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Re: Are?

Post by aadhaulya » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:57 pm

StampMaster wrote:Surprisingly, I would say to have peace with the intruder or handover our-self. :x

With bureaucracy and red-tapism at various levels it easy to surrender to the intruder else be ready to grease the palms of officials...

Read a recent incident http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 301_1.html. And the poor fellow who saved his family is running around to get his case proved.
Dear StampMaster,

Not a good idea at all, to 'hand over your self'.
Sorry, I do not know your age or if you are married and have children. I am 52 years old and have two lovely daughters and three guns. I would never ever, even think of surrendering to goons, come what may...

As far as the legality goes, due to the population and limited resources, courts are overburdened. I fell it should not be so, but the facts remain. Now what happens to me.
My gun is taken into police custody for forensic examination (minimum 2 to 3 months) so that the cops can prepare a case for court. I would be arrested for killing but released on bail immediately.

After all, a judge needs to decide if I have not manipulated the scene for my own benefit. Also the gun gets released back to me on 'supardari'. as the cops may require it for evidence in the future before the case is settled.

I am sure that it would be the same in any civilized country. But the process may be much faster.

Therefore, my advise would be try to run if you are threatened. But for home/ family defense blast the bas***** away.

Regards

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Re: Are?

Post by Armed Defence » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:08 am

Keep the best you can arrange. Auto loaders are,of course, the best. BTW, I don't have a pump action or auto loader at home. So, my primary HD weapon is my father's CZ Rami pistol, not his Spanish DBBL, because the robbers and thieves have semiautomatic and sometimes even fully auto weapons. But it doesn't mean that DBBL isn't effective. Its just about good, better, and best.

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Re: Are?

Post by wildhoghunter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:44 pm

aadhaulya wrote:
StampMaster wrote:Surprisingly, I would say to have peace with the intruder or handover our-self. :x

With bureaucracy and red-tapism at various levels it easy to surrender to the intruder else be ready to grease the palms of officials...

Read a recent incident http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 301_1.html. And the poor fellow who saved his family is running around to get his case proved.
Dear StampMaster,

Not a good idea at all, to 'hand over your self'.
Sorry, I do not know your age or if you are married and have children. I am 52 years old and have two lovely daughters and three guns. I would never ever, even think of surrendering to goons, come what may...

As far as the legality goes, due to the population and limited resources, courts are overburdened. I fell it should not be so, but the facts remain. Now what happens to me.
My gun is taken into police custody for forensic examination (minimum 2 to 3 months) so that the cops can prepare a case for court. I would be arrested for killing but released on bail immediately.

After all, a judge needs to decide if I have not manipulated the scene for my own benefit. Also the gun gets released back to me on 'supardari'. as the cops may require it for evidence in the future before the case is settled.

I am sure that it would be the same in any civilized country. But the process may be much faster.

Therefore, my advise would be try to run if you are threatened. But for home/ family defense blast the bas***** away.

Regards
Yes sir , I am with you. Surrender ourselves to goons and robbers in our homes, and property, it is never possible to me. I can't even imagine about that. I just don't care about anything in the world ,in such a situation . I am not a robber or goon, I never hurt anyone , I eat my heard earned food, enjoy my own shelter, what all I have in this world is my hard and honestly earned; so I can't tolerate any harmful to my family. I don't let them even to hurt my dogs .Any one intrude with such a intention ,definitely enjoy his or their feast they deserve.by the way ,surrendering with our arms and ammunition will not save us from a police case, we are liable to protect our arms from falling in illegal hands too.

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Re: Are?

Post by StampMaster » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:25 pm

Dear aadhaulya,

I just put myself in the situation. If you are in the scene then you know whats best for you to do. I just meant to say to be in best of our sense (presence of mind) to react to the situation. And consequences of the reaction should be kept in mind.

May be firing in air to alarm intruders and neighbors and calling 100 (or now 112, Indian emergency number. Dont know if it is ready and working).
”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

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Re: Are?

Post by aadhaulya » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:30 pm

Dear StampMaster,

What you propose is the most sensible thing to do, and nothing can be better than keeping the consequences of your action in mind. But the options are very limited.
You call 100 or whatever and twiddle your thumbs till they react.
Firing in the air is a very good option as chances are the intruder would run away but after that there is no backing out, if they do not run away you have to be prepared to pump them, whatever the consequences.
Alerting the neighbors also does not help in cities. I know and have family relations with all my neighbors for the last 30 years having parties, going on picnics etc. I think I will come to their help any time just because I have a wild streak in me, till now at this age also.
I am also confident that if I require assistance of a dangerous nature involving goons no body will notice any thing as they would be sleeping in the furthest room with the A/C on.

Regards

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Re: Are?

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:16 am

aadhaulya wrote:I am also confident that if I require assistance of a dangerous nature involving goons no body will notice any thing as they would be sleeping in the furthest room with the A/C on.

Regards
Very true, even if there is no A/C noise, most likely people pretend to have heard nothing in their "deep sleep". Now what is the practical solution? Most criminals look for easy and soft targets. At the moment I can think of the following:

1. Strong perimeter defenses. By perimeter defenses I do not mean only some burglar alarms and the like but also strong and high walls, strong doors and windows or locks that cannot be easily broken or pried open with crow bar or iron rod used as a lever. In various parts of India, the crow bar is a favorite dual purpose tool of trade as well as weapon of house breakers. It is commonly called sabbal in local language. Some people have tendency to give lot of attention to "beauty" aspect of the house, especially at the cost of security aspect. This should be avoided.

2. Doors made of plywood are strict no, especially for main doors or windows. I know of an incident where the burglars simply cut out the soft plywood boards of the door around night latches, with help of an ordinary ice pick to make an entry. In another incident they came armed with hand held electrical iron cutting machine during a noisy rainy night to cut iron bars. So ensure that there is no source of electricity that may be misused.

3. Think like a burglar or robber to find out weak points and weak times in your house to fix them. Bathroom, toilet, kitchen windows or rooftop doors are favorites of burglars. Why? Because usually they are weak or left open at night. Also they are sure nobody is near them at night.

4. Most of the crime is done with help of people who have "inside" information. As a matter of abundant precaution, be very careful and suspicious of people like servants, security guard, milkman, newspaper delivery man, gas cylinder delivery man, plumber, electrician and the like. They should never get to know more than what they are supposed to know. Like they should not never know how many persons are inside, when they are out and the like.

5. Avoid a fixed routine as much as possible. If someone is monitoring the activities of the household from outside, should not be able to guess what time is most "appropriate" to commit crime.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Are?

Post by wildhoghunter » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:55 am

goodboy_mentor wrote:
aadhaulya wrote:I am also confident that if I require assistance of a dangerous nature involving goons no body will notice any thing as they would be sleeping in the furthest room with the A/C on.

Regards
Very true, even if there is no A/C noise, most likely people pretend to have heard nothing in their "deep sleep". Now what is the practical solution? Most criminals look for easy and soft targets. At the moment I can think of the following:

1. Strong perimeter defenses. By perimeter defenses I do not mean only some burglar alarms and the like but also strong and high walls, strong doors and windows or locks that cannot be easily broken or pried open with crow bar or iron rod used as a lever. In various parts of India, the crow bar is a favorite dual purpose tool of trade as well as weapon of house breakers. It is commonly called sabbal in local language. Some people have tendency to give lot of attention to "beauty" aspect of the house, especially at the cost of security aspect. This should be avoided.

2. Doors made of plywood are strict no, especially for main doors or windows. I know of an incident where the burglars simply cut out the soft plywood boards of the door around night latches, with help of an ordinary ice pick to make an entry. In another incident they came armed with hand held electrical iron cutting machine during a noisy rainy night to cut iron bars. So ensure that there is no source of electricity that may be misused.

3. Think like a burglar or robber to find out weak points and weak times in your house to fix them. Bathroom, toilet, kitchen windows or rooftop doors are favorites of burglars. Why? Because usually they are weak or left open at night. Also they are sure nobody is near them at night.

4. Most of the crime is done with help of people who have "inside" information. As a matter of abundant precaution, be very careful and suspicious of people like servants, security guard, milkman, newspaper delivery man, gas cylinder delivery man, plumber, electrician and the like. They should never get to know more than what they are supposed to know. Like they should not never know how many persons are inside, when they are out and the like.

5. Avoid a fixed routine as much as possible. If someone is monitoring the activities of the household from outside, should not be able to guess what time is most "appropriate" to commit crime.
Yes , totally we have to make some arrangements that at least make us aware of them before they enter in to the home.it is use less to have even a AK 47 rifle if they stand in our bedroom when we open our eyes.in such a situation it is better to not have any weapons with us.at least we spared from the scene that they use our weapons against our tempered sons or son in law's.

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Re: Are?

Post by aadhaulya » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:57 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:
aadhaulya wrote:I am also confident that if I require assistance of a dangerous nature involving goons no body will notice any thing as they would be sleeping in the furthest room with the A/C on.

Regards
Very true, even if there is no A/C noise, most likely people pretend to have heard nothing in their "deep sleep". Now what is the practical solution? Most criminals look for easy and soft targets. At the moment I can think of the following:

1. Strong perimeter defenses. By perimeter defenses I do not mean only some burglar alarms and the like but also strong and high walls, strong doors and windows or locks that cannot be easily broken or pried open with crow bar or iron rod used as a lever. In various parts of India, the crow bar is a favorite dual purpose tool of trade as well as weapon of house breakers. It is commonly called sabbal in local language. Some people have tendency to give lot of attention to "beauty" aspect of the house, especially at the cost of security aspect. This should be avoided.

2. Doors made of plywood are strict no, especially for main doors or windows. I know of an incident where the burglars simply cut out the soft plywood boards of the door around night latches, with help of an ordinary ice pick to make an entry. In another incident they came armed with hand held electrical iron cutting machine during a noisy rainy night to cut iron bars. So ensure that there is no source of electricity that may be misused.

3. Think like a burglar or robber to find out weak points and weak times in your house to fix them. Bathroom, toilet, kitchen windows or rooftop doors are favorites of burglars. Why? Because usually they are weak or left open at night. Also they are sure nobody is near them at night.

4. Most of the crime is done with help of people who have "inside" information. As a matter of abundant precaution, be very careful and suspicious of people like servants, security guard, milkman, newspaper delivery man, gas cylinder delivery man, plumber, electrician and the like. They should never get to know more than what they are supposed to know. Like they should not never know how many persons are inside, when they are out and the like.

5. Avoid a fixed routine as much as possible. If someone is monitoring the activities of the household from outside, should not be able to guess what time is most "appropriate" to commit crime.
I have given the suggestions a deep thought. I agree with them.
But, like I have mentioned earlier posts as well that I have a wild streak in me. The front of my house is all glass panels from the floor to ceiling, without any grills of any sort. If a glass panel breaks the house can't be locked at all. The terrace door also remains open 24 hours.
After my wife locks up the house for the night, I go and open the latch of one door so that I do not have to get up in the morning to open the doors for the maid and servants.
But my daughters have two huge dogs in the house.
As for additional security I keep my loaded revolver hidden in my bed and the other guns are unloaded.
With these precautions I feel I can take care of most situations, as unlike Pakistan as 'Armed Defence' mentioned, in India robbers and petty criminals do not come with automatic weapons.

Regards

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Re: Are?

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:21 pm

aadhaulya wrote:I have given the suggestions a deep thought. I agree with them.
But, like I have mentioned earlier posts as well that I have a wild streak in me. The front of my house is all glass panels from the floor to ceiling, without any grills of any sort. If a glass panel breaks the house can't be locked at all. The terrace door also remains open 24 hours.
After my wife locks up the house for the night, I go and open the latch of one door so that I do not have to get up in the morning to open the doors for the maid and servants.
But my daughters have two huge dogs in the house.
As for additional security I keep my loaded revolver hidden in my bed and the other guns are unloaded.
With these precautions I feel I can take care of most situations, as unlike Pakistan as 'Armed Defence' mentioned, in India robbers and petty criminals do not come with automatic weapons.

Regards
What I had mentioned was based on my personal, parents, grandparents and relatives experiences. I have lived in various cities in India. It happened twice that my residence was visited by burglars at dead of the night but fortunately saved from harm by perimeter defenses. Because of perimeter defenses I was able to wake up before burglars were able to enter and find me in deep sleep. Burglars ran away in panic. In both these incidents after the maid servants were politely dismissed, no such visit ever happened. As a precaution do not keep maid servants and manage the household work among ourselves.

I am personally a dog lover, they are good for security especially for creating a ruckus and waking up everybody. But still I do not 100% trust the dogs for security. One of our neighbor's house was burgled after poisoning the dog.

Many decades ago, one of our relatives had a habit of sleeping on rooftop of his house in his village, with revolver under the pillow during summer season. Someone somehow got the information that he sleeps with revolver under the pillow. The thief or whatever you like to call the intruder, came and skillfully pulled out the revolver. The revolver owner woke up only after the revolver was in hands of the thief. He preferred to pretend sleeping rather than being shot. The next morning some people told him that he is coward because he pretended to be asleep, others especially his family members told him he did the right thing to pretend sleeping.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Are?

Post by aadhaulya » Thu May 07, 2015 10:12 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:Many decades ago, one of our relatives had a habit of sleeping on rooftop of his house in his village, with revolver under the pillow during summer season. Someone somehow got the information that he sleeps with revolver under the pillow. The thief or whatever you like to call the intruder, came and skillfully pulled out the revolver. The revolver owner woke up only after the revolver was in hands of the thief. He preferred to pretend sleeping rather than being shot. The next morning some people told him that he is coward because he pretended to be asleep, others especially his family members told him he did the right thing to pretend sleeping.
I also agree with the family point of view. He made a wise decision and pretended to sleep, even though he had just woken up and may not have been fully alert. There is absolutely no point in taking a rash decision that could and probably would have been fatal.

Regards

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