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primer puncture

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wildhoghunter
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:40 am

primer puncture

Postby wildhoghunter » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:21 pm

I have seen, firing pins of my shotgun puncturing shot shell primers.this is happening with some KF 65 cartridges only.what is the problem? Do I need to file the face of my firing pins or it is the quality of our KF cartridges? Do excessive oil or wax in the barrels affect the powder burning?
Thanks



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airguns
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:56 am

Re: primer puncture

Postby airguns » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:58 am

My friend, don't shoot it anymore, get your shotgun checked by a competent person ASAP. Punctured primers on shooting means, gas leakage. Gas leakage, best case scenario, it is mild and nothing happens, worst case scenario, a lost eye or other injury. Have heard about it, but only experienced it first hand once, guy was shooting old single shot, primer leaked, his whole hand was nicely bruised, I was on the bench next to him, got some gas, felt like somebody had smacked my face with a rubber band.



dr.jayakumar
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:55 am
Location: tamilnadu,india

Re: primer puncture

Postby dr.jayakumar » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:34 am

First see if the firing pin is sharp.next check the tension of the firing pin spring.does it happen in both the barrels?
try other catridges.
regards
dr.jk



User avatar
timmy
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
Location: I'm a Nuevo Mexicano

Re: primer puncture

Postby timmy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:48 am

The first question is, how far do your firing pins protrude? If they protrude too much, pierced primers are a likely result.

But, firing pins do not grow longer over time. There is a reason they protrude excessively, if that is your problem. It is highly unlikely that they protruded too much when the gun was new.

So a more important issue that must be determined is why the firing pins are protruding more. Something must have worn or failed to allow this, and the gun may not be safe. Or, it may be safe if it can be repaired. The only way you are going to know whether it is safe to shoot or not would be to have a real gunsmith (not some shoemaker with a pair of pliers and a large hammer) who knows what he's doing look at your gun.

There's no way anyone here can tell you for sure what your problem is without actually examining the gun in the flesh.


Regards,
tim

wildhoghunter
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:40 am

Re: primer puncture

Postby wildhoghunter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:28 pm

:agree:
timmy wrote:The first question is, how far do your firing pins protrude? If they protrude too much, pierced primers are a likely result.

But, firing pins do not grow longer over time. There is a reason they protrude excessively, if that is your problem. It is highly unlikely that they protruded too much when the gun was new.

So a more important issue that must be determined is why the firing pins are protruding more. Something must have worn or failed to allow this, and the gun may not be safe. Or, it may be safe if it can be repaired. The only way you are going to know whether it is safe to shoot or not would be to have a real gunsmith (not some shoemaker with a pair of pliers and a large hammer) who knows what he's doing look at your gun.

There's no way anyone here can tell you for sure what your problem is without actually examining the gun in the flesh.


No sir, they are not protruding excessively. Firing pin holes in the action are also not bad.but the firing pins are a bit sharper;I have compared them with that of other shotguns.just filing them will solve the problem.but it seems that they are not made of mild steel.



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timmy
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
Location: I'm a Nuevo Mexicano

Re: primer puncture

Postby timmy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:51 pm

The protrusion should be somewhere around 1.5 mm or a little less.


Regards,

tim

wildhoghunter
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:40 am

Re: primer puncture

Postby wildhoghunter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:06 pm

dr.jayakumar wrote:First see if the firing pin is sharp.next check the tension of the firing pin spring.does it happen in both the barrels?
try other catridges.
regards
dr.jk


Yes and thank you sir .they are really sharp, I think I need to grind them a little. abot springs, they are originals; perfectly serving the gun for nearly 100 years .



wildhoghunter
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:40 am

Re: primer puncture

Postby wildhoghunter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:09 pm

timmy wrote:The protrusion should be somewhere around 1.5 mm or a little less.


Thanks for the information sir.i am going to check them



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Mark
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:37 am
Location: Middle USA

Re: primer puncture

Postby Mark » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:56 am

wildhoghunter wrote:
dr.jayakumar wrote:First see if the firing pin is sharp.next check the tension of the firing pin spring.does it happen in both the barrels?
try other catridges.
regards
dr.jk


Yes and thank you sir .they are really sharp, I think I need to grind them a little. abot springs, they are originals; perfectly serving the gun for nearly 100 years .


Ack! Don't do that until you have eliminated all other causes!

Can you post pictures and hopefully close-ups of the pins?

How about some punctured primers?

We do not even know what the shotgun is. For example, there are small springs called "rebound springs" that fit on the front of the firing pin that serve to retract the pin. If these springs disintegrate, which would not be unexpected for a 100 year old working gun, it can allow the pin to move forward.

Here is an example of some Purdey firing pins, with the spring on one. Note the firing end of the pin is upward and the hammer end is downward:
Image

Anyway, the gun needs to be properly disassembled and inspected. If you continue to fire it and the rebound spring is now broken the firing pin will itself break and that will be a much bigger and more expensive problem than replacing the spring if that turns out to be the problem.


"What if he had no knife? In that case he would not be a good bushman so there is no need to consider the possibility." H.A. Lindsay, 1947

wildhoghunter
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:40 am

Re: primer puncture

Postby wildhoghunter » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:37 am

Mark wrote:
wildhoghunter wrote:
dr.jayakumar wrote:First see if the firing pin is sharp.next check the tension of the firing pin spring.does it happen in both the barrels?
try other catridges.
regards
dr.jk


Yes and thank you sir .they are really sharp, I think I need to grind them a little. abot springs, they are originals; perfectly serving the gun for nearly 100 years .


Ack! Don't do that until you have eliminated all other causes!

Can you post pictures and hopefully close-ups of the pins?

How about some punctured primers?

We do not even know what the shotgun is. For example, there are small springs called "rebound springs" that fit on the front of the firing pin that serve to retract the pin. If these springs disintegrate, which would not be unexpected for a 100 year old working gun, it can allow the pin to move forward.

Here is an example of some Purdey firing pins, with the spring on one. Note the firing end of the pin is upward and the hammer end is downward:
[ Image ]

Anyway, the gun needs to be properly disassembled and inspected. If you continue to fire it and the rebound spring is now broken the firing pin will itself break and that will be a much bigger and more expensive problem than replacing the spring if that turns out to be the problem.


Thanks for the advice mark
It is a old westleyrichards boxlock hammer less.it was gifted to my grandfather by a British gentleman , who had coffee estates in india. firing pins of this shotgun are really sharp now compared to that you have shown.once it was with a local gun Smith for cartridge extractor repair.he replaced that part, that I think was not necessary. I have noticed the extractor he replaced is longer than the original.from the very beginning of that work,While opening the gun after a fire; there was a scratch mark from the centre of primer to the outer edge of the cartridges (straight downward).After a 100 or so shots, the scratching problem was disappeared and made way to primer puncture. Now I am in a doubt that my springs are changed. I don't know how to up load photographs, that I will try to.
Thank you again mark.



dr.jayakumar
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:55 am
Location: tamilnadu,india

Re: primer puncture

Postby dr.jayakumar » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:31 pm

How about some punctured primers?

We do not even know what the shotgun is. For example, there are small springs called "rebound springs" that fit on the front of the firing pin that serve to retract the pin. If these springs disintegrate, which would not be unexpected for a 100 year old working gun, it can allow the pin to move forward.

Here is an example of some Purdey firing pins, with the spring on one. Note the firing end of the pin is upward and the hammer end is downward:
[ Image ]

Anyway, the gun needs to be properly disassembled and inspected. If you continue to fire it and the rebound spring is now broken the firing pin will itself break and that will be a much bigger and more expensive problem than replacing the spring if that turns out to be the problem.[/quote]

Thanks for the advice mark
It is a old westleyrichards boxlock hammer less.it was gifted to my grandfather by a British gentleman , who had coffee estates in india. firing pins of this shotgun are really sharp now compared to that you have shown.once it was with a local gun Smith for cartridge extractor repair.he replaced that part, that I think was not necessary. I have noticed the extractor he replaced is longer than the original.from the very beginning of that work,While opening the gun after a fire; there was a scratch mark from the centre of primer to the outer edge of the cartridges (straight downward).After a 100 or so shots, the scratching problem was disappeared and made way to primer puncture. Now I am in a doubt that my springs are changed. I don't know how to up load photographs, that I will try to.
Thank you again mark.[/quote]
You can try a drop of araldite on the tip of the firing pin let it settle for 12 hrs and check if the problem persists.
regards
dr.jk



aadhaulya
Posts: 1174
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: primer puncture

Postby aadhaulya » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:48 pm

Dr. JK,

I doubt that araldite can take the impact of the pin hitting the primer. It may drive the dried araldite into the some undesirable points, I am not sure if M-Seal would also work, though it would be able to withstand the impact better but without any support on the back side it also seems doubtful.

Regards



Rover solomon
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:56 pm

Re: primer puncture

Postby Rover solomon » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:42 pm

I am also facing the same problem.and after firing barell opening become difficult
Some body share the views

1.firing pin sharp
2.happend with KF cartridges also



dsingh
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:24 pm
Location: chandigarh india

Re: primer puncture

Postby dsingh » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:38 pm

I had same problem first time in 15 years with my gun my gun barrels became stuck I opened with giving hard punches to barrels it opened. It happened with new KF special cartridges very bad experience old KF amno was better.This is problem with amno.




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