Safe Way to Carry a Hammerless Pistol

[rover12]

I have a Mauser HSc .32 and a Beretta .22 both of which have external hammers, therefore allowing me to carry them with a round in the chamber with the safety on without the hammer in a cocked position.
Recently I picked up a Colt 1903 in .32 and the issue here is can I carry it with a round in the chamber, with the safety on, but with the hammer in a cocked position(since it's hammerless I cannot manually release the hammer to the uncocked position).

[timmy]

A note about safety: You might think that the 1903 and 1908 Colt “Hammerless” pistols would be considered safe guns to carry since they have both a grip safety and a manual safety. However, they do not have a firing-pin lock safety and are therefore not “drop safe”. The firing pin is inertial, and if the gun is dropped hard enough and lands at the proper angle the firing pin can strike the cartridge with enough force to ignite the primer. There is at least one documented case of an experienced shooter being killed by dropping a 1903 Colt. These guns should not be considered safe to carry with a round in the chamber.

from: http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/1903C/1903c.html

You can also read this thread, where a number of opinions are expressed:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502566

As far as I am concerned, I will not carry such a weapon with a round in the chamber, and carrying one without a round, making it necessary to cycle it before it is ready to shoot, eliminates it from consideration as a carry gun.

You can read all of this and make up your own mind, but if one goes off in your pocket, you may find yourself missing some pretty useful things.

[FN-Five-Seven]

Not able to carry a round in the chamber with peace of mind , is one of the reasons , I don't prefer the IOF ASHANI , which I believe is a crude copy of the Colt 1903 .

[winnie_the_pooh]

BTW, the Colt 1903 is not a hammerless pistol but rather has a concealed hammer.

[rover12]

Thanks for your valuable input timmy...

[AgentDoubleS]

Carrying an ashani with a round in the chamber has not been advised many times over on IFG owing to its poor manufacturing.

However, is the same advice followed, in say the US, by someone using a concealed hammer Glock? Some of them don't have a manual safety either- but are the other safety features reliable enough to be trusted?

Or for that matter any other pistol with a concealed hammer and no option to have the double action in the first fire- how would most ppl with access to such a handgun carry it?

Regards,
SS

[winnie_the_pooh]

Q. Safe way to carry a Colt 1903?

Ans. Without a round in the chamber.

[TC]

Carrying an ashani with a round in the chamber has not been advised many times over on IFG owing to its poor manufacturing.

However, is the same advice followed, in say the US, by someone using a concealed hammer Glock? Some of them don't have a manual safety either- but are the other safety features reliable enough to be trusted?

Or for that matter any other pistol with a concealed hammer and no option to have the double action in the first fire- how would most ppl with access to such a handgun carry it?

Regards,
SS

Hi SS,
If I am not wrong the Glock is a striker fired pistol (i.e. there is no hammer of the conventional type) and uses an unconventional double trigger system that has to be deployed to activate the striker. The pistol wont fire unless the trigger is squeezed all the way. Once the trigger is released the striker is disengaged and returns to safe position. Its the same routine for every shot, hence there is no question of DA and SA pull of trigger. Its the same trigger pull for every shot. I guess users feel its pretty safe to carry a Glock with a round in chamber. Same goes for other pistols that uses similar mechanisms.

Cheers
TC

[FN-Five-Seven]

GLOCK is a striker fired pistol .

The way a GLOCK works is that when the trigger is squeezed , all the safety mechanisms are disengaged , and when the trigger returns to it's original position all the safety mechanisms are engaged once again . As far as I know , there are no external safety mechanisms on a GLOCK . Hence GLOCK calls their pistols as Safe Action Pistol as opposed to Double Action or Single Action .

Source of my information : I have a friend in North Carolina who owns a G17 , G22 & G21 .

F-N-Five-Seven

[AgentDoubleS]

TC, FN - that's information I wasn't aware of- cheers

[TC]

Hi SS,

You are most welcome my friend. Had the opportunity to fire and disassemble a couple of Glocks issued to a certain police unit where I have friends. Its an interesting design and attempts have to been made in the US to copy it which landed Smith and Wesson into a lawsuit about a eight years ago.

Cheers

TC

[marksman]

I'd rather you carried it with full mag and empty chamber. Go on to you tube and learn the Israel drill of unholstering and cocking the handgun. Seems safest to me in our environment.IMHO.
Marksman

[FN-Five-Seven]

I found an animation video on Youtube which very well describes the GLOCK's striker fire action .
So adding it here
[youtube][/youtube]

Notice that when the slide returns from the rearmost position due to the decompression of the spring and a round is chambered , the striker returns to a semi cocked position , instead of fully cocked position as in a hammer fired firearm . When the trigger is reset , all the three layer safety mechanism comes into action and the locks the striker .
When the trigger is pulled , the three layer safety mechanism disengage , the striker gets fully cocked , and when the trigger completes it's travel the striker along with the firing pin hits the primer igniting the charge inside the ammo .

As you can see , unlike a hammered firearm ( external or internal ) , it's safe to carry a GLOCK with a round in the chamber . Due to absence of the external hammer , it avoids getting snagged with clothing when the firearm is taken out from the holster. It's won't have a accidental discharge if dropped ; it will only fire when the trigger is fully pulled . And due to striker fire mechanism , every trigger pull is consistent ; some people prefer that , some don't .

F-N-Five-Seven

[soul]

As mentioned by TC, FN Glock is striker fired and only has trigger safety. These are always carried with one in the chamber, and folks actually prefer not to have safety to fumble with in times of emergency. It is important to have the right type of holster, and enough training to avoid common mistakes (finger on trigger when drawing, etc).

I have fired Glocks multiple times at my range (its $10 per session rent for any pistol/revolver), but my preference is for Springfield XDM/XDS. Other than trigger safety like Glock, it also has grip safety. It feels more safe, without fumbling to engage and disengage safety. The XDS is very compact and suitable for carry, then XDM compact or XDM standard. If anyone interested in XDM/XDS can snap pictures to share

[xl_target]

As you can see , unlike a hammered firearm ( external or internal ) , it's safe to carry a GLOCK with a round in the chamber . Due to absence of the external hammer , it avoids getting snagged with clothing when the firearm is taken out from the holster. It's won't have a accidental discharge if dropped ; it will only fire when the trigger is fully pulled . And due to striker fire mechanism , every trigger pull is consistent ; some people prefer that , some don't .

Many handguns with a hammer are perfectly safe to carry with a round in the chamber.
If you get the hammer caught in your clothing, you are doing something wrong.
Most of the modern DA/SA handguns will NOT fire if dropped as most of them have some kind of firing pin block.
Most of them require you to pull the trigger all the way back before the firing pin block is released and the sear is tripped. So when you hear about so and so who had an accidental discharge, it's most likely because he couldn't keep his finger off the dang trigger.

In a DA/SA pistol, only the first pull is a longer, heavier (double action) pull. Every other trigger pull (till decocked) is a consistent and significantly lighter pull. If you practice with a DA/SA handgun, you're not going to have any problems with the transition from DA to SA. It boggles the mind when people complain about that issue. The same people can drive a vehicle in rush hour traffic on the freeway, operate heavy machinery or operate a computer but they can't compensate for a one time trigger pull that is a few pounds heavier? I mean, you know its there. It the same pull but just requires a little bit more force. I think most of the people who complain about it have never taken the time to actually try it out.

As far as Glock's go, they are just another pistol. While most of them are very reliable, there is nothing magical about them. They are a mass produced conglomeration of plastic and steel that you don't mind beating the crap out of because they are inexpensive.