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I guess it's too bad we cant ask any of those Germans, Japanese, North Koreans or Vietnamese who were on the other end of John Browning magnificent "design flaw".
umm... don't try this at home. Never mind that you 're probably risking digital damage by holding your finger right up to the fastest moving part of the gun. Never mind that you might want to shoot at something over five yards. Oh wait just let the knife wielding thug get to five yards and then start shooting. Never mind that you only have two fingers on the grip to control recoil. How fast are you going to line up your next shot? Never mind that you can't document one case where this has happened... oh never mind....
I'm just stupid and have a closed mind so I'll just keep pulling the trigger with the finger the gun was designed to be used with.
A digital camera and a gun; instant stupidity. Just a sec... here, hold my beer.......
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941
LOL never heard the middle finger can be used to pull the trigger too. BTW the videos disables the facility of adding comments on youtube, I guess that sums down the situation
Before we make fun of the video, lets delve a bit deeper into the matter.
The second finger method is not popular in the US but is known.
now please note that i am not saying that is the best method. but yes it is one method and yes pointing does help in aiming. The situation here is of very rapid shooting esp in self defence and if the first finger were parallel to the barrel, then in theory yes it will be very quick to point and shoot irrespective of bad light etc.
A lot of people hold the fore end of the shotgun with 3 fingers for the same reason (the index doing the pointing).
This method for might not be popular but like all methods, does have its proponents.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
Well, gee, I was just never aware of that. Now that I know better, I won't be able to hit anything with a 1911 anymore. Especially at short range. That must be why they are finding all those dead guys on the streets, with a jammed 1911 with pushed out pin beside them. What is next? A class action law suit against Browning's heirs and all manufacturers of 1911s? What a joke.
P.S.: When you don't use things the way they were designed to be used, of course you'll find "design flaws". And if you're really ham handed as well......If your hand and the 1911 aren't compatible, get something that fits you.
Well, Duh! As the British might say, we seem to have a case of "3 Bags Full" here. First of all, most folks who complain about the 1911 cite the problem of control: their small hands cannot gain sufficient control of the 1911's large frame. I am trying to imagine hearing their howls if they are now called upon to control the same weapon with only 2 fingers on the grip...
Then, I really love the picture this "expert" shows, of his finger point method known since the 1800s being used on a revolver. I wonder how often this same "expert" has put his flesh in the proximity of the cylinder gap of a revolver? Obviously, he's talking bilge here, for if he had tried this trick, he'd soon be visiting Vasool Raja, MBBS, a doctor whose medical knowledge would be a good match with this clown's firearms knowledge.
RE: the comparison between the 1911 and TT33 slide stop retention method, I am noting that the 1911 method requires a minimum of parts that can get lost in the field. The price to be paid for this is a more complex machining process for the slide stop and the slide. I totally doubt that the TT33 had this shooting method in mind when the clip retention method was implemented, rather, I am quite sure they used this method on the TT33 because it was cheaper and quicker to manufacture.
While the 1911 is my favorite, too, it is not perfect. However, the genius of the design represents an intellectual and engineering achievement far exceeding this windbag's carping.
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
While this method might work for some people with a shotgun, I think it is downright stupid with a handgun. It might work for something really close but for any kind of distance, I think the shooter is going to have issues.
As far as shooting a handgun with speed as your goal, remember that you also have to hit the target or its a waste of time.
To accurately place shots in the same area repeatedly, your gun has to return to the same position that it was in before you fired. Your grip determines that. If you hold it properly, it will return to the same position every time. For the gun to return to the same spot quickly after the shot (recoil control), your grip must once again be adequate (more fingers in the grip area helps). Please remember, we are not talking about target shooting, we are talking about combat shooting.
If you look at some of the guys who shoot fast and accurately, you need to look for videos featuring Todd Jarret, Rob Leatham, Jerry Miculek, Robert Vogel, Bob Munden, etc. These guys can fire very fast and hit multiple targets very quickly. The guy in the video above, even when he is supposedly firing fast, is glacially slow compared to the previously mentioned guys. None of the above mentioned guys, some of whom are world champions, would use their middle fingers for anything but giving that guy the bird.
Todd Jarrett uses his trigger finger to pull the trigger. He must be doing something right.
Look at Todd in this video, sheer poetry in motion:
He starts with his back to the targets. He then turns and draws his pistol from his holster, double taps each target, working left to right. He then changes magazines, starting again at the target to his left, placing 2 shots on each target , left to right again in 3.48 seconds! That, ladies and gentlemen, is some incredible combat shooting (... incredible any kind of shooting)!
[youtube][/youtube]
Granted, this is also on YouTube, but this guy can back his claims up.
Last edited by xl_target on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941
Vikram wrote:J.M.Browning was unfamiliar with this deadly technique.
Vikram
Sure about that . Browning designed the FN Browning 1900 with the barrel fixed to the frame and the recoil spring located above. The empty pops out from the right. It would be impossible to fire that pistol as well in the manner shown in the first video. Interestingly both these pistols were quite popular in their times.
In the case of the Browning 1900 design, it uses the blowback system where a heavy slide and recoil spring resists the force of the fired round from opening the breech until the bullet exits the barrel. Such a design can work with rounds like the .32 ACP the 1900 used, but not the much more powerful .45 ACP used by the 1911. For that, Browning used his short recoil action, where the barrel moves downward to unlock from the slide, which continues backward to eject and chamber a new round. In this case, the slide release pin also acts as the pivot for the barrel link. Therefore, there's no need for such a pivot function in the blowback action.
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
The grip is incorrect per say. Point and shoot is not quite possible with most handguns. The slide will take your finger off.
Point shooting is a skill that requires a lot of practise and a very strong middle finger. With BP revolvers or revolvers per se point shooting is can be very dangerous.
Priyan wrote:LOL never heard the middle finger can be used to pull the trigger too. BTW the videos disables the facility of adding comments on youtube, I guess that sums down the situation
This lad is suggesting that we put our indexfinger along the frame underneath the slide.
Great place to have the finger rub along the underside of the slide slowing it or causing it to not cycle fully and really jam things up.
I've been a firearms instructor for over 20 years (military and police). If you want to train someone to instinctively hit a target use the index finger for the trigger, have it parallel to the slide while drawing and pointing t he weapon and practice your draw and point aiming at least 500 times.
Practice instills muscle memory. Trust me the first time I drew down on a suspect lunging towards me and my partner, I never remembered the draw or the presentation. But the gun was there and pointed towards her rotund body.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
