Rot in shooting sports

All shooting sports - ISSF/ IPSC/ HFT/ Sporting Clays etc.
.338 lapua
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:42 pm
Location: mumbai

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by .338 lapua » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:55 pm

I am in ,waiting for our experts,don't let this guy go unpunished. :evil:
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!"
MarkTwain

For Advertising mail webmaster
Putani2005
Fresh on the boat
Fresh on the boat
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by Putani2005 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:26 pm

Hi Safarigent,vikram, nagarifle, timmy,

I guess these are the some people whom I would like to reply for their objectivity. I don't want to go in details to explain several points raised by other members. Had I been trying to hide, I would not have posted my article in this forum with my personal mail ID. I have no doubt on Ashok Pandit's ability as a shooter but my information on assault (PB) weapon is purely based on the 15 arms license copies that was obtained under RTI. To see the injustice done several shooters of Maharashtra by MRA office bearers one must go on the field/range and personally talk to those shooters. I have interviews many of them who were scared to talk but agreed to talk on anonymity. To know more about MRA and its history read the second part of the series (http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_d ... ir_1718475). I have no enmity against shooters or office bearers of MRA. I am not sure how many people have ever tried to understand how the affairs of MRA and NRAI is conducted. I as a journalist would not write anything without proper documentary support. These information are provided by top and senior most police officials of Maharashtra. If any has any problem with the article be objective in mentioning it rather than flowing in emotions. All of you are most welcomed to comment on the article. I will ensure that it gets published provided the language discipline is maintained. And I expected members of IFG to be objective rather than indulging in personal attack.

Katana
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 1004
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:22 pm
Location: Gujarat

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by Katana » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:27 pm

Should a protest be registered with DNA, I'll be willing to lend my support. However, I suggest we first bring out the 'proof' that the reporter is purporting, so that such an exercise is not repeated and that law abiding, legally licensed arms holders are not maligned.

Putani,

Please do not take this as a personal attack on yourself. The question is the sensationalism that this kind of journalism brings about, where none is required.
I have no doubt on Ashok Pandit's ability as a shooter but my information on assault (PB) weapon is purely based on the 15 arms license copies that was obtained under RTI.
Can you show us a copy of the RTI that you talk about? I'd love to see an assault weapon and the calibre entered in the relevant column! If you know about people keeping assault weapons, how come the LE agencies don't? If they do know, why haven't they acted upon it?
Last edited by Katana on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Justice alone is the mainstay of government and the source of prosperity to the governed, injustice is the most pernicious of things; it saps the foundations of the government and brings ruin upon the realm - Sher Shah Sur, Sultan-ul-Adil.

User avatar
nagarifle
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: The Land of the Nagas

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by nagarifle » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:43 pm

thanks for making your point clear, i do appreciate that. I am happy to know that you have done your research and have documentary support, unlike vest majority of journalist who conjurer up facts out of a hat. what i would really like if one can point out that there are vest majority of arms license holder and sportsperson who are law abiding and that few rotten apples in the barrel does not make all the same.
Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

goodboy_mentor
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:49 pm

@.338 lapua let us hear what Mr. Putani is saying and try to understand his views.

@Putani2005 Thanks for responding. Nobody is trying to make personal attacks against you. Only responding about making baseless, biased and slanting attacks in publication done with view to make the matter sensational, at the cost of reputation and respect of law abiding arms license holders. And jumping to conclusions for example if .32 wadcutter is used by some criminals, it is being sourced from shooters. Have you ever reached conclusion and made allegations that police, paramilitary, army etc. are supplying 9x19 mm, .303, 7.62x39 mm, 7.62x51 mm cartridges, whenever they are recovered from criminals?

Following is another example of jumping to conclusions without understanding the Arms Act 1959 and making comments resulting in defamation(an offense under IPC punishable with jail term) of the gentleman in question -
I have no doubt on Ashok Pandit's ability as a shooter but my information on assault (PB) weapon is purely based on the 15 arms license copies that was obtained under RTI.
You are equating assault weapon with PB firearm. Do you know assault weapon is different from PB firearm under Arms Act 1959? Do you know it is perfectly legal to own more than three firearms for certain type of persons and organizations? Also possessing PB weapon is not illegal if you hold the license for same. Even possessing an assault weapon is legal if you have followed the due process of law mentioned in Arms Act 1959. Had you known all this, you would have thought about all this before publishing.

Also if you are able to or not able to obtain any information via RTI related to any person or organization, it does not always mean that the person or organization has done an illegal act.

And giving information about arms licenses of individuals via RTI is a matter of serious concern. If PIO has given this information to you it is extremely wrong act done by him. What right do you have to get information about any person whether he has arms license or not or how many arms licenses he has? It is his right to get arms licenses, and he has purchased arms by following law and with his hard earned money. His arms or arms licenses are not public property that are open for scrutiny to public via RTI. What gives right to anybody to poke his nose into these sensitive matters? It is just like obtaining the bank account details of a person via RTI to find out how much money he has. Would you like to share your personal bank account details publicly via RTI?
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

.338 lapua
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:42 pm
Location: mumbai

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by .338 lapua » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:23 pm

GBM very well explained sir,even for a layman to understand,there's the point is it right to obtain info on people owning firearms and if that information goes into the wrong hand's the likes of maya dolas,I am sure some not many of the arms and their ammo previously owned by law abiding citizens will definitely fall in their hands with the previous owner's either .....or ....secondly I stay you can say [somewhere] opposite swati apartment and was one among hundreds of witnesses on that fateful day,I am not saying that I saw empty shells of .32 wadcutter's and definitely not had any idea about ammunition but could distinguish between .303 and an Ak then.If one says they had such ammo so they also were using AK'S and some sub's a car's boot full of them so where did they get them from I am sure it was not from licensed arms owner's then.While the rest of the maya dolas story as interpreted by cops is just maya (illusion),just as the competitor shooter and only god knows what type officer claimed to be 32 wads. :D
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!"
MarkTwain

User avatar
airgun_novice
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:15 pm
Location: Mumbai-Thane, India

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by airgun_novice » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:47 pm

Dear Putani,

I read the part II of article in today's DNA as well. Reading the two articles in tandem, I was reminded of a much talked-about movie of recent times - "Aarakshan". The first half of the movie churns the caste politics which suddenly disappear in the second half and a new villian - "coaching institute" emerges. The connection is absolutely non-existent - disjoint.

Quite similarly your article (P-II) today focuses on the frontal attack on MRA and its office bearers Pandit and Sheela. As a journalist who says it with conviction and RTI returns, that's your right and as and when demanded substantiating it is your duty.

However, yesterday's (P-I) was a veiled attack where you made a shield of sports persons to give base to an ulterior motive. The so-called Truth which you started off with Lokhandwala episode tarnished the entire shooting community. You used and randomly flung "renowned shots" as if they were renowned "sheeters". Your readership - even those that read English - will find it tough to differentiate or understand the real Truth from what "ardh satya" you published, thus instigating public opinion against shooting as a sport or the Right to Bear and Keep Arms as a Fundamental Right.

A basic background study of shooting as a sport would have brought to light what all difficulties the sport as such has to undergo just to stay afloat. We do not - can not - have all the shooting disciplines in India today due to the myopic mindset of the rulers and ignorance and apathy of the public. Why not research on how the shooting sports persons navigate the odds and yet pursue their passion and win laurels for their state or India.

You take offence at attacks launched on you by the devoted and passionate shooting community but have absolutely no qualms about branding an entire national community through your readership of millions ? For that you must apologize and issue a clarification publicly on the same DNA front page that you used earlier.

Now, consider this scenario - at least one member of the Maya Dolas gang happens to be an MRA member. He is in his early 20s, like Maya who was bumped off at 25. Do you really expect that he would write "extortion & murder" under his profession on the membership form ? So he becomes a bonafied member of the MRA. Now somehow he gets his firearms license as well, may be as a sports person, and uses it at MRA for the sport. How does he get his license, it's for the police and Home Ministry to answer. But then Dawood Ibrahim's family got their passports in less than a day under false names and escaped out of Mumbai after the bomb blasts - so I would not be surprised. But surely MRA/ NRAI would not be in any position to issue him a license, right ? Assume he buys his .32 wad-cutters from MRA or NRAI - why would MRA or NRAI object ? From their perspective he's only a sports person seeking legitimate quota. Guess what ? The dude gets bumped off in Lokhandwala and either the .32 wad-cutter is found or planted. Do you think this scenario is possible - if so, which shooting sports person of national level or "renowned shot" plays a role in getting that .32 wad-cutter to the underworld chap ?

Why do you claim that you were attacked personally ? No one knows you here - no one holds a grudge against you or any pre-conceived notion or prejudice against you. It was purely professional exposure of yellow journalism and sensationalism by people who are aware ("DoLas") of their rights and duties and obey the Law of the Land and do not get blind-folded or swayed by misinformation ("Maya") of the media. Anyway, I presume that as a person who claims "personal" attack by IFGians, you would have thought of the above scenario before launching tangential attack on the Indian shooting community en masse in P-I or shooting the gun - in our parlance ?

User avatar
brihacharan
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 3112
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: mumbai

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by brihacharan » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:05 pm

[quote="tiwariarrun"]
Dear Pistolero,
I agree with what you said. These journos know nothing about shooting sports, arms, ammunition and arms act. There is no point we arguing ***************************. Sheer waste of bandwidth!

Rot in journalism I say! :agree:

> These myopic journos do not know which end of the gun fires ROTFL
> If one were to read reports of guns being used in shootouts - These journos refer to the weapon used as "12 bore rifles" / Revolvers :lol:
> I think the answer lies in making "All those above the age of 18 - undergo compulsory military training" - this includes JOURNOS & their ilk.
> This lopsided sensationalism in journalism should stop. Media should know when to exercise prudence.
Briha

User avatar
tirpassion
Shooting true
Shooting true
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:40 am
Location: Paris

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by tirpassion » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:01 pm

Excellent replies from GBM and AGN, just as I had expected. Bravo les gars!!!

Mr Putani2005, on behalf of the IFGians, I request you to answer the questions, pointwise raised by goodboy_mentor and airgun novice.
We all know that nothing can be perfect in the world but does it make the world a bad place to live in? You understand very well that you have goofed up. So, there is nothing wrong in apologising in that case. Please do it publicly in your Daily and honour yourself as you have done so by not staying behind the curtain.

regards
tirpassion

.338 lapua
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:42 pm
Location: mumbai

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by .338 lapua » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:38 pm

Mr Putani,
Kindly get your facts right,We are quite aware of what is going on in this country,our rulers are least bothered for common citizens lives ,where we are shot by terrorists using the so called PB bore ammo and assault rifles for which they have access to in large numbers from we all know where,so by accusing MRA,NRAI,Renowned shooter's,amateur shooter's and legal arms owning community is not going to go down well.GBM and AGN have explained to you in the best possible ways.
[So, there is nothing wrong in apologising in that case. Please do it publicly in your Daily and honour yourself as you have done so by not staying behind the curtain. ] :agree:
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!"
MarkTwain

prashantsingh
Poster of the Month - Aug 2011
Poster of the Month - Aug 2011
Posts: 1352
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: India

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by prashantsingh » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:45 pm

More than 420 views and 40 replies in 24 hrs. Our man (putani2005) got what he wanted.

Cheap publicity.

I am actually looking forwards to all the answers to the questions fellow members have raised.

User avatar
Vikram
We post a lot
We post a lot
Posts: 4461
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:14 am
Location: Tbilisi,Georgia

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by Vikram » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:31 am

Putani2005,

Thank you for coming back with your reply and having tried to address at least a couple of issues raised. We sincerely appreciate that.We cannot ask you to reveal your sources or documents.Having said that, as Katana asked, may we at least look at the information procured under the RTI? After all they can be in the public domain. We understand that you are at no obligation to oblige us.

You might be a bit taken aback at the umbrage our members have taken to your portrayal of shooting sports and certain sports persons.However, the terms and language we use must be very precise, lack of which otherwise gives rise to pointless malignment of a sport, people and even implements. Hence, the repeated requests to get the legal and technical terms right. I hope you understand and appreciate this perspective.

@Members,

Friends, once again, lets please keep the discussion civil. You need not spare the OP in your disagreement.But, please keep the language civil and less personal. Thanks.


Best-
Vikram
It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

Biren
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:51 am
Location: delhi

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by Biren » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:12 am

If we leave some of discrepencies in article appearing in DNA, isnt it true that there is something wrong in how shooting federations function in this country?

Why we as a forum for gun lovers brush this fact under the carpet?

Cant we accept there are bogus associations which are all for furtherence of personnel interests of its office bearers? Why bogus, so called recognized bodies are rotting and medals are all due to indiviual efforts of sprots persons?

Why cannt we be accept that yes weapons & ammo imported by sportspersons are being sold in market as are weapons & ammo from services. Come on we all know its happening and privately we all admit.

It would have been of help if DNA could have incorporated in its report suggestions how this rot can be stopped or the cause of this rot.

Authorities look for simple solutions. Something like ban alchohol, people will stop drinking, colonial hangover i say.

Rgds,
Biren

User avatar
xl_target
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 3464
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:47 am
Location: USA

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by xl_target » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:29 am

Cant we accept there are bogus associations which are all for furtherence of personnel interests of its office bearers? Why bogus, so called recognized bodies are rotting and medals are all due to indiviual efforts of sprots persons?
Thankfully you live in a country where allegations have to be proven.
Would you want to be crucified if someone who didn't like you or your lifestyle just made unsubstantiated accusations against you?
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

User avatar
brihacharan
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 3112
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: mumbai

Re: Rot in shooting sports

Post by brihacharan » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:19 am

tirpassion wrote:Excellent replies from GBM and AGN, just as I had expected. Bravo les gars!!!

Mr Putani2005, on behalf of the IFGians, I request you to answer the questions, pointwise raised by goodboy_mentor and airgun novice.
We all know that nothing can be perfect in the world but does it make the world a bad place to live in? You understand very well that you have goofed up. So, there is nothing wrong in apologising in that case.
Please do it publicly in your Daily and honour yourself as you have done so by not staying behind the curtain.
regards
tirpassion
:agree: :agree:

Briha

Locked