http://www.cbec.gov.in/cae/draft-manual/chapter-14.pdf
Please go through the Pricing Section 14.1.2 for Sale of weapons to MPs/VIPs
Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated fire
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to_saptarshi
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Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated fire
Check out the Link for Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated fire Arms.
http://www.cbec.gov.in/cae/draft-manual/chapter-14.pdf
Please go through the Pricing Section 14.1.2 for Sale of weapons to MPs/VIPs
http://www.cbec.gov.in/cae/draft-manual/chapter-14.pdf
Please go through the Pricing Section 14.1.2 for Sale of weapons to MPs/VIPs
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penpusher
Re: Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated
A couple of years back the Delhi High Court imposed a ban on the allotment of firearms to MP's and VIP's and ordered that hence forth they are to disposed off only through open auction.Needless to say,there has been no auction so far.As per the report of the CAG,there are some weapons lying with the Customs dept. from the 1960's.
penpusher
penpusher
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cottage cheese
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Re: Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated
Interesting read.
Funny thing is nobody seems to be interested in following it to the letter. I've seen quite a few cases of Malkhana hardware being peddled by officials for profit...never mind the 10 years. Snitch a piece for a few hundred bucks and sell them off for a few lakhs...smart businessmen eh? The galling thing is these are babus breaking the rules they make.
As for weapons 'leased' to officers/babus/politicians.... you can be rest assured in 90 percent of the cases they are never returned after superannuation.
Auction? thats as good as asking them to cease corruption.
Funny thing is nobody seems to be interested in following it to the letter. I've seen quite a few cases of Malkhana hardware being peddled by officials for profit...never mind the 10 years. Snitch a piece for a few hundred bucks and sell them off for a few lakhs...smart businessmen eh? The galling thing is these are babus breaking the rules they make.
As for weapons 'leased' to officers/babus/politicians.... you can be rest assured in 90 percent of the cases they are never returned after superannuation.
Auction? thats as good as asking them to cease corruption.
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TC
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Re: Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated
Very interesting subject...During course of work I have had the opportunity to enter police malkhanas. Gentlemen you will be surprised to know what I saw.....Awesome stocks of weapons catchig rust.
penpusher you are not entirely right here. Most police departments hold actiuons after the court order but these are never "public".
The stong lobby of gun dealers have managed to strike a deal here as well. I know of at least two actions by the Bengal and Orissa police where confiscated NP bore weapons were sold to dealers during "discreet auctions". The other beneficiaries were some politicians and mostly IPS officers who ran the show.
One DCP bought an English double barrel 12 bore for Rs 200. And another DCP bought a .32 Iver Johnson revolver for Rs 700.
A joing commissioner bagged a .32 colt for the same amout...
Should I go on?
Morale of the story : Civilian shooters need to have a strong lobby and claim their rights
So long
TC
penpusher you are not entirely right here. Most police departments hold actiuons after the court order but these are never "public".
The stong lobby of gun dealers have managed to strike a deal here as well. I know of at least two actions by the Bengal and Orissa police where confiscated NP bore weapons were sold to dealers during "discreet auctions". The other beneficiaries were some politicians and mostly IPS officers who ran the show.
One DCP bought an English double barrel 12 bore for Rs 200. And another DCP bought a .32 Iver Johnson revolver for Rs 700.
A joing commissioner bagged a .32 colt for the same amout...
Should I go on?
Morale of the story : Civilian shooters need to have a strong lobby and claim their rights
So long
TC
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Sakobav
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TC
Thats is so correct about auctions the hot shots buy their guns from there.
Malkhanna's - one can probably write a catalogue on weapons lying in these places. Know an officer who paid a visit to Phillaur Punjab Police Malkhanna ( Police Academy). He picked up his first side pistol Mauser Hsc .32. Cute little pistol and he loved it.
Rgds
Thats is so correct about auctions the hot shots buy their guns from there.
Malkhanna's - one can probably write a catalogue on weapons lying in these places. Know an officer who paid a visit to Phillaur Punjab Police Malkhanna ( Police Academy). He picked up his first side pistol Mauser Hsc .32. Cute little pistol and he loved it.
Rgds
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penpusher
Re: Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated
Tc,
This is again a reflection of the crazy prices of firearms in the country. This provides the incentive for such practices.
Dealers are issued licenses to deal in arms and ammunition.However they find it difficult to makes both ends meet.The difficult process of getting an arms license and the high cost of accquiring a firearm subsequently,acts as a deterent for many people.The cost of ammunition and the ridiculously low no. of cartridges to most licensees means that the sale of ammo too is limited. Then there is the IOF that will accept an order for arms or ammo only if the dealer deposits a percentage of the cost of the ammo. and then it delivers the ammo and firearms many months after the order has been placed.The money remains locked in for that period and the dealer losses.There is also a quota and its not as if the dealer can place an order for ammo. every few months.There is also a quota for the IOF .315 rifles for evey dealer.Earlier it was 10 rifles after 2-3 years.Now I think it's after 6 months.At present IOF is not supplying ammo and rifles to dealers and consequently the prices have gone up.
Therefore the dealers overcharge to make some money.Many dealers,especially the big ones,have more than one arms dealerships,that they have obtained in the name of other family members and these are used to book arms and ammo quotas and then they make a profit by selling them to small dealers who cannot afford to book the minimum ammount of ammo. with the IOF.
The sellers also are very greedy and demand a high premium.Most are not even aware of what the actual cost of their gun is.All that they know is that it's expensive.The dealers add 15-20,000/- to their purchase price as their profit.There is also the knowledge that buyers have little or no option in matters of buying firearms.Firearms have always been expensive in India.Now the situation is out of control.
The high cost of legal arms and the relative low price of illegal arms,also encourages some unscruplous dealers to sell these off as legal arms.The high profit that they can obtain by selling ammo to criminals also encourages some to do so.This,I feel,is because of the limited profit that honest practises would earn them.
As long as the policy makers have the option of buying arms at laughable prices they will never make an effort to free up the import of firearms and ammo.Afterall they would not want to lose the 100 or 200 times the profit that they otherwise make.
Why is it not possible to return to the position as it was during the British times when firms could obtain licenses to import firearms and ammo and sell it in the civilian market.This also ensured that there was a proper record of the arms brought into the country.If law enforcing agencies are worried about the arms brought into the country,this would address their worries also.
However this became impossible when the import of arms and ammo by dealers was stopped and instead only individuals were allowed to import arms.Dealers started sending their own men abroad,who would bring in a firearm and then immmediately sell it.To stop this ,initially a restriction on the licensee not being allowed to sell for 2 years was enforced and this was extended,step by step , to 10years shortly before the import was banned altogether.
The difficult process of getting a license can be overcome by being persistent and through some knowledge of the Arms Act and Rules. However,what is a person to do about the price of arms and ammunition?
penpusher
This is again a reflection of the crazy prices of firearms in the country. This provides the incentive for such practices.
Dealers are issued licenses to deal in arms and ammunition.However they find it difficult to makes both ends meet.The difficult process of getting an arms license and the high cost of accquiring a firearm subsequently,acts as a deterent for many people.The cost of ammunition and the ridiculously low no. of cartridges to most licensees means that the sale of ammo too is limited. Then there is the IOF that will accept an order for arms or ammo only if the dealer deposits a percentage of the cost of the ammo. and then it delivers the ammo and firearms many months after the order has been placed.The money remains locked in for that period and the dealer losses.There is also a quota and its not as if the dealer can place an order for ammo. every few months.There is also a quota for the IOF .315 rifles for evey dealer.Earlier it was 10 rifles after 2-3 years.Now I think it's after 6 months.At present IOF is not supplying ammo and rifles to dealers and consequently the prices have gone up.
Therefore the dealers overcharge to make some money.Many dealers,especially the big ones,have more than one arms dealerships,that they have obtained in the name of other family members and these are used to book arms and ammo quotas and then they make a profit by selling them to small dealers who cannot afford to book the minimum ammount of ammo. with the IOF.
The sellers also are very greedy and demand a high premium.Most are not even aware of what the actual cost of their gun is.All that they know is that it's expensive.The dealers add 15-20,000/- to their purchase price as their profit.There is also the knowledge that buyers have little or no option in matters of buying firearms.Firearms have always been expensive in India.Now the situation is out of control.
The high cost of legal arms and the relative low price of illegal arms,also encourages some unscruplous dealers to sell these off as legal arms.The high profit that they can obtain by selling ammo to criminals also encourages some to do so.This,I feel,is because of the limited profit that honest practises would earn them.
As long as the policy makers have the option of buying arms at laughable prices they will never make an effort to free up the import of firearms and ammo.Afterall they would not want to lose the 100 or 200 times the profit that they otherwise make.
Why is it not possible to return to the position as it was during the British times when firms could obtain licenses to import firearms and ammo and sell it in the civilian market.This also ensured that there was a proper record of the arms brought into the country.If law enforcing agencies are worried about the arms brought into the country,this would address their worries also.
However this became impossible when the import of arms and ammo by dealers was stopped and instead only individuals were allowed to import arms.Dealers started sending their own men abroad,who would bring in a firearm and then immmediately sell it.To stop this ,initially a restriction on the licensee not being allowed to sell for 2 years was enforced and this was extended,step by step , to 10years shortly before the import was banned altogether.
The difficult process of getting a license can be overcome by being persistent and through some knowledge of the Arms Act and Rules. However,what is a person to do about the price of arms and ammunition?
penpusher
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cottage cheese
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Re: Policy, guidelines reagarding disposal of Confisticated
Is there no way some kind of consumer protection clause being roped in to keep a check on unfair pricing.... I mean...after all whatever woodheads and featherheads might want to think about firearms, it is still a product/commodity that is purchased legitimately by a consumer from a trader who at the very least is engaging in...well... trade... which should in any case a domain that is regulated by laws and rules....well...bah what am I trying to say.penpusher";p="8458 wrote: However,what is a person to do about the price of arms and ammunition?
My dealer friend has more or less stopped dealing with the IOF for the very reasons you've mentioned. They simply don't bother moving a finger for smaller dealers and it takes immense prodding and pestering to get them to even bother to respond...forget about them showing even a modicum of civility. A class bunch of reprobates.
He is now forced into the arms of bigger dealers...with the standard chain of events.
The ammo allotment in licences are designed to make your gun an expensive paper weight. The standard here is 50 rounds maximum per year.... and you cant purchase more than 25 at a time. Who is the fart that writes up all these horse-piddle regulations, I wonder? Im told nearby Guwhati has an even more brilliant solution to the ULFA problem- You can't buy more than 4 shots at a time!!
What on earth are gun owners supposed to do in such circumstances?