Indians For Guns

Dear vraja,
You received the letter from which customs ?? Kolkata or Chennai ??

Basu

Dear basu ji, i got the letter from chennai customs.

goodboy_mentor wrote:See it is not question of x-ray machines or if they physically inspect the product. Technically speaking what is the difference between a rifle scope and a reasonably shock proof telescope with some affixing arrangement so long either of them is not mounted on a rifle? They are just optics or vision enhancement devices. Aren't they?

Not exactly GBM Riflescope is a purpose-built aiming device that places a projectile precisely where the shooter wants it to. In short, it is part of a weapon that shoots projectiles. For watching a bird you need a telescope. To shoot the same bird through the head you need the riflescope. Big difference.

Riflescope is brightly and clearly marked "restricted" among the 400 odd other items listed by the Director General of Foreign Trade. "Restricted" means the item cannot be imported into the country without specific permission issued (against an end-user certificate) to the importer by the ministry concerned (Defence Ministry if the importer is Army, Navy, Air Force, DRDO etc and Home Ministry if the importer is police, paramilitary or civilian).

Cheers
TC

Vsraja, if you can get the scope cleared please mention how it shoots with the Indian made air rifles. If you and H Maru also get it cleared, I might get confidence to import one through Kolkata customs as sports goods. I can't understand why they detain air rifle scopes. Although air rifles are dangerous, a smallbore springer cannot be termed as a weapon by any stretch of imagination.

sam 47 wrote:Vsraja, if you can get the scope cleared please mention how it shoots with the Indian made air rifles. If you and H Maru also get it cleared, I might get confidence to import one through Kolkata customs as sports goods. I can't understand why they detain air rifle scopes. Although air rifles are dangerous, a smallbore springer cannot be termed as a weapon by any stretch of imagination.

Sam
While it is not my intention to discourage you in your pursuit I think its important to clear some misconceptions.

There is no such class distinction between 'air rifle scope' and 'firearm scope' in the rule books, neither here nor in the West. Any scope that can mounted on an air-rifle can also be mounted on a firearm. A cheap two-dollar fixed-magnification scope mounted on a Red Ryder BB gun can also be used with a .22 LR rifle, trust me. By writing 'air rifle scope' on a consignment doesn't make us immune to govt rules that the Customs dept follow. If customs officers look the other way and let some consignment in than you can (and should) only thank the almighty and their reluctance to enforce the rules strictly FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

By air rifle scope in this case you are actually talking of a 'springer-rated' scope which technically is more strongly built than scopes used on firearms and PCPs. So, you are referring to a scope that can withstand hard recoil of a spring-piston air rifle (and that of a firearm). Once a scope enters the country, the customs dept doesn't have the jurisdiction nor the infrastructure to follow you everywhere and see what you are doing with the scope. Misuse comes under the jurisdiction of the Home Dept.

Talking of Home Dept. I hope you are aware of Arms Rules 2016 that has brought even 177 air guns /air pistols above a certain power level under the Arms Act i.e. you can be booked under Arms Act and put in jail for simply possessing an air rifle that doesn't comply to the rules without a licence. So your emphasis on "small bore springer" doesn't really mean anything as long as you don''t specify power/energy.

A small bore springer can be called a "weapon" by any and every stretch of imagination because a weapon essentially means a tool that can be used for offence or defence. A 177 pellet fired from a 'small bore springer' can blind you for good if you are shot in the eye and can even kill you if the pellet travels at high velocity and hits you in certain parts of your body.

We are living in a tough world and my long experience says its better to keep emotions aside and be practical.

Cheers
TC

TC wrote:

sam 47 wrote:Vsraja, if you can get the scope cleared please mention how it shoots with the Indian made air rifles. If you and H Maru also get it cleared, I might get confidence to import one through Kolkata customs as sports goods. I can't understand why they detain air rifle scopes. Although air rifles are dangerous, a smallbore springer cannot be termed as a weapon by any stretch of imagination.

Sam
While it is not my intention to discourage you in your pursuit I think its important to clear some misconceptions.

There is no such class distinction between 'air rifle scope' and 'firearm scope' in the rule books, neither here nor in the West. Any scope that can mounted on an air-rifle can also be mounted on a firearm. A cheap two-dollar fixed-magnification scope mounted on a Red Ryder BB gun can also be used with a .22 LR rifle, trust me. By writing 'air rifle scope' on a consignment doesn't make us immune to govt rules that the Customs dept follow. If customs officers look the other way and let some consignment in than you can (and should) only thank the almighty and their reluctance to enforce the rules strictly FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

By air rifle scope in this case you are actually talking of a 'springer-rated' scope which technically is more strongly built than scopes used on firearms and PCPs. So, you are referring to a scope that can withstand hard recoil of a spring-piston air rifle (and that of a firearm). Once a scope enters the country, the customs dept doesn't have the jurisdiction nor the infrastructure to follow you everywhere and see what you are doing with the scope. Misuse comes under the jurisdiction of the Home Dept.

Talking of Home Dept. I hope you are aware of Arms Rules 2016 that has brought even 177 air guns /air pistols above a certain power level under the Arms Act i.e. you can be booked under Arms Act and put in jail for simply possessing an air rifle that doesn't comply to the rules without a licence. So your emphasis on "small bore springer" doesn't really mean anything as long as you don''t specify power/energy.

A small bore springer can be called a "weapon" by any and every stretch of imagination because a weapon essentially means a tool that can be used for offence or defence. A 177 pellet fired from a 'small bore springer' can blind you for good if you are shot in the eye and can even kill you if the pellet travels at high velocity and hits you in certain parts of your body.

We are living in a tough world and my long experience says its better to keep emotions aside and be practical.

Cheers
TC

TCda, I am aware of the rule very much. My gun is of .177 caliber and of 13.2-14 fpe muzzle energy, clears the rules with ease. 15 fpe is max as stated by rules. Perhaps a member as experienced as you already know that most air rifles don't even break 10 fpe, but the caliber issue is for clarification and I am also waiting like 1000s of other owners. I don't have a license and not old enough to apply for one, so using in firearm is out of the question. But even if I had a firearm , how can I import one ? Who gives the permission for import ? And even if I use a scope imported with an air rifle in a firearm, what is the harm as long as I don't do any unlawful activity? Just because someone might kill someone sometime, an entire country cannot be deprived of gun related accessories, instead infrastructure should be implemented to punish the lawbreaker.
The .177 can injure I agree, but cannot kill a human. Though there are instances of kids being killed with air rifles, they are purely accidents and the pellets from close ranges hitting the wrong spot is just unfortunate. But ask yourself, if it is so deadly a weapon, why do people opt for shotguns for home defense ? Will you shoot a intruder with an air rifle in .177 even if produced 25 fpe at the muzzle? A one in a million shot kill doesn't make it a weapon. A weapon is something which can kill reliably every time the trigger is pressed.
There are also instances when children have been killed when slapped by an enraged teacher or parent at the wrong place. People have also been killed by being strangled and choked to death by bare hands. Does this make the arms one is born with is a weapon and should they be chopped at birth to make the society a better place? Wrongly used, each and every object is a weapon.
That doesn't mean we can't posses anything. If something wrong is done, there are enough laws to punish the person.

All this being said and done and all misconceptions cleared, why don't you tell me how to legally and smoothly import a scope for my springer assuming scopes imported by and experiences posted by most other members here is illegal?

TC wrote:Not exactly GBM Riflescope is a purpose-built aiming device that places a projectile precisely where the shooter wants it to. In short, it is part of a weapon that shoots projectiles. For watching a bird you need a telescope. To shoot the same bird through the head you need the riflescope. Big difference.

Riflescope is brightly and clearly marked "restricted" among the 400 odd other items listed by the Director General of Foreign Trade. "Restricted" means the item cannot be imported into the country without specific permission issued (against an end-user certificate) to the importer by the ministry concerned (Defence Ministry if the importer is Army, Navy, Air Force, DRDO etc and Home Ministry if the importer is police, paramilitary or civilian).

Matters are not that simple or black and white if seen from legal perspective. That is also why the courts have power to "interpret" the laws. The law cannot compel you to watch a bird with telescope only and say you become a suspect when you use an unmounted rifle scope to watch a bird. Why? Because there is something called personal/ non commercial liberty of the individual under Article 21 of the Constitution. One is not supposed to give justifications or reasons for enjoying personal/ non commercial liberty.

Can someone please tell me the statute that says you cannot possess or manufacture a rifle scope for your own use? If no then why no? Again no because there is something called personal/ non commercial liberty of the individual. If no then why the rifle scopes have been restricted from import? Is it for commercial protection of domestic manufacturers?

If someone says we are living in a banana republic where people have no meaningful liberty and anything is possible, then one has to agree especially after reading the following threads -

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24846#p245602

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24864

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24760

So, I finally got the scope I ordered from Aliexpress. To be honest, it didn't take very long. I placed the order on 26th December and it got delivered on 9th January. Got it for approx Rs. 1600 from here

http://s.aliexpress.com/uYZnM3aM

Here are some initial pics of it (I'll upload better pics later) on my toy BB gun. I'm going to pick up the Precihole NX100 in a couple of days. Comes with 20mm mounts, so may have to get replacements when buying the NX100. Features 3-9x40, illuminated scope with green or red crosshair. Quality is really good, just remember, this is not Bushnell, but a Chinese copy. Nonetheless, aim seems fine so far (on my toy bb that shoots plastic pellets at 400fps at 10m) the box has "Riflescope" printed on it, you can find many YouTube videos on the same.

The below pics were take before I zeroed in the scope, so please don't judge the fact that it is poorly mounted. I was just too excited and had to click pics immediately.



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bkmarks55 wrote:Hi folks...I received my parcel today...The scope was too good for the price i paid...But the scope covers were broken.Thats fine..the prodcut is too good im very impressed.

It came with 20mm rings ...but precihole holds only..11mm...Can anyone tell me cost of 11mm with stopper plz.im from bangalore.

Pls follow it up with a review of the scope. it would useful for this to order one. thank u.

goodboy_mentor wrote:

TC wrote:Not exactly GBM Riflescope is a purpose-built aiming device that places a projectile precisely where the shooter wants it to. In short, it is part of a weapon that shoots projectiles. For watching a bird you need a telescope. To shoot the same bird through the head you need the riflescope. Big difference.

Riflescope is brightly and clearly marked "restricted" among the 400 odd other items listed by the Director General of Foreign Trade. "Restricted" means the item cannot be imported into the country without specific permission issued (against an end-user certificate) to the importer by the ministry concerned (Defence Ministry if the importer is Army, Navy, Air Force, DRDO etc and Home Ministry if the importer is police, paramilitary or civilian).

Matters are not that simple or black and white if seen from legal perspective. That is also why the courts have power to "interpret" the laws. The law cannot compel you to watch a bird with telescope only and say you become a suspect when you use an unmounted rifle scope to watch a bird. Why? Because there is something called personal/ non commercial liberty of the individual under Article 21 of the Constitution. One is not supposed to give justifications or reasons for enjoying personal/ non commercial liberty.

Can someone please tell me the statute that says you cannot possess or manufacture a rifle scope for your own use? If no then why no? Again no because there is something called personal/ non commercial liberty of the individual. If no then why the rifle scopes have been restricted from import? Is it for commercial protection of domestic manufacturers?

If someone says we are living in a banana republic where people have no meaningful liberty and anything is possible, then one has to agree especially after reading the following threads -

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24846#p245602

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24864

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24760

GBM,
You have a strong argument. The laws in this land clearly go against gun owners and never implemented (or amended to match changing scenarios) to meet the intended purpose. Had a bitter experience with a few Ministries while working on a sensitive report recently. But that's a different story.

Regards
TC

Hello eldroi,
Nice looking scope youve got there..what is the mode of payment for it and can it be fix on precihole 11 mm

Thank you. Paid via credit/debit card online from alixpress. The scope mounts are for 20mm rails, so I guess I'll be buying either an adapter or new scope mounts. The adapter costs approx Rs. 300 on the same site. Here, have a look

1 set Excellent quality Dovetail Weaver Picatinny Rail Adapter 11mm to 20mm Tactical Scope Extend Mount Adapter for Hunting
http://s.aliexpress.com/V7ZvAFzQ




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Thankyou so much eldroi..just want to know before hand coz m planning to buy a nx 100 polaris this week and also wanted to fix a scope with reasonable price on it

You're welcome. If you don't mind me asking, where are you from? If in Mumbai, perhaps we can go pick it up together. I can't find a shop in Mumbai that has stock of the NX100 at the moment. Maybe I'm not going to the right places.

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TC wrote:You have a strong argument. The laws in this land clearly go against gun owners and never implemented (or amended to match changing scenarios) to meet the intended purpose. Had a bitter experience with a few Ministries while working on a sensitive report recently. But that's a different story.

You have spoken very profoundly. As a reply to what you have said, may read this post, the one with two videos viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24511&start=225#p246121