Courtrooms and weapons

[pointblank]

Hi everybody,could someone comment on carrying arms to the court or the courtroom.In punjab,U.P.its a common practice to carry 12 bore to court.

[BJL]

A common practice? Why? Are the judges that dangerous?

[pointblank]

"Are the judges that dangerous?"....BJL..???????? To use arms if the opposite party against whom they are fighting their cases poses some problem.Simple,maan.

Also give information about carrying arms to a police station.

[Vineet]

My grandfather was shot few years ago and during the case hearing in the court we carry weapons in the court premises but it is not allowed in the court room where the judge presides.Actually the destrict court room is a small room (its not a big room as shown in movies) where 5-6 persons can accomodate at a time and one have to be there for only few minutes. Also no one would even dare to use a weapon against you in front of a judge.So you don't need a weapon there for self defence.
As far as police station is concerned there is no rule as such that you can not carry a weapon.
You should carry a rifle or a shotgun only if you are in a real danger otherwise you should carry a
handgun in a concealed state.

[bullshitwalks]

i am a really surprised to learn from our esteemed member pointblank that carrying guns to courts is a common practice in u.p.
i am political figure and member of the ruling party, even we are not allowed to carry weapons except for the shadow gunner provided by the state.
even some deptts. like pwd, irrigation, res, vikas bhawan and many dont allow guns in the offices.
whereas you can carry a gun however big or small to a police station , untill u have a valid arms license for the same.
after certain mishaps in "baraats", dgp law and order issued a guideline prohibiting public display of weapons in public at large.
police here on the toes curbing public display of arms.
dont even try carrying a gun to a court in u.p. , your weapon might get confiscated.

[pointblank]

With all due respect to bullshitwalks and the steps taken by the present govt. of UP.,Sir, my question concerns the trend people follow or used to follow(before the present govt. of UP) in a particular area and its problems one may face if he or she continues to do so.I in my family have faced similar problem as narrated by Vineet and are still facing a threat.

[BJL]

"Are the judges that dangerous?"....BJL..???????? To use arms if the opposite party against whom they are fighting their cases poses some problem.Simple,maan.

Also give information about carrying arms to a police station.

No sense of humour, sheesh.

You actually take weapons to court to USE against the opposite party in case they pose a problem? Are you actually asking/stating that? Is there any doubt in your mind at all about the legality of situation? How on earth can that be legal?

[nm]

Legally speaking, in a court room......nobody, even the police is allowed to bear weapons.

Only police officers specifically authorised by the court are allowed to carry weapons inside.

NM

[Anand]

As far as I know the Arms Law specifically prohibits carrying into educational institutions and at a fair, religious procession or other public assemblage unless specially empowered to do so. Most licenses usually have an endorsement stating that "State & Local restrictions apply" or something to that affect.

While common sense dictates where and where not to carry, usually , places such as the Assembly where even uniformed officers are supposedly not allowed to carry (except the CM's body guard) and Airports and other Government Installations/offices which have now mostly installed metal detectors etc.
Now I am not saying that any place that has a metal detector is off limits. For example most malls and movie theatres in Hyderabad have these, but they will allow License holders and police without problems so long as they enter your name, license number and telephone number in their register.

Also the CM's security will place temporary metal detectors where the CM is attending a wedding or party, the security people will not allow even license holders to enter and (politely) say that you can leave the weapon with a retainer/driver/servant who may be accompanying you or locked up in the car. This may be not be practical at all times and so most people don't want to go through the hassle.

It does make sense that while the Court room itself should remain weapon free (in the interests of Justice), it also makes sense that the Court permises should infact allow arms for self defence reasons mentioned above. It would be good if the law could be updated and made more clear without so much ambiguity, so that, so much discretion does not lie with the licensing authorities.
Regards,
Anand

[grewal]

well point blank you are little bit mistaken .
It is not inside the courtroom but people do bring along their weapons for their own security cause they must be having some enmity with the opposite party who also comes to the court to attend the court hearing if there happens to be a dispute between the anti parties . And these weapons a not allowed inside the court premises but are to be kept outside the mini Secretariat .

[pointblank]

My thanks to EVERYBODY who has added his opinion or even visited the thread,nearly everyone has stated of dire consequences after being caught .I agree,but could u all give some time to this thought that--1)U've all been holding valid lic.'s nearly half of your life.2)U all have spent a fortune trying to buy a weapon that is of your choice.3)and this has basically been done to protect yourself and u'r family--------and here's a selected group of gentlemen who make laws and also implements them,decide against your carrying them to court or in general its premises.
NOW,could somebody make me understand what should be my priority if someone shoots at me with an illegal or even a legal weapon in court premises.
1)I should consider the legality of situation?Think i'll be caught afterwards anyway and spend my whole life in jail.The judges will take note of the point that i brought a weapon to court and this will go against me.
OR
2)Should I protect myself using my weapon killing that beast or at least injuring him to neutralize him so that my family does not mourn and enjoys the benefits of those insurances early that i've paid premium so far.

[mundaire]

Does anyone recall the case of one Shri Om Prakash "Hitler" from Sirsa, who shot (and killed) a witness in an open courtroom in Haryana? IIRC this was in the late 80's/ early 90's...

[goodboy_mentor]

bullshitwalks,
I feel this forum is lucky to have people like you as members, who can help affect a positive change. I felt like asking you, if you do not mind, are you doing something to help make gun ownership processes smoother/quicker/easier in U.P.?(Within the present Arms Act) I had heard that previous Chief Minister had given a circular authorizing District Magistrates in U.P. to issue "All India" Licenses.(I do not know if it is correct)

Don't you think a similar circular can be given to issue a firearms licenses to people within a time frame, if a person is able to furnish certain documents?

[BJL]

My thanks to EVERYBODY who has added his opinion or even visited the thread,nearly everyone has stated of dire consequences after being caught .I agree,but could u all give some time to this thought that--1)U've all been holding valid lic.'s nearly half of your life.2)U all have spent a fortune trying to buy a weapon that is of your choice.3)and this has basically been done to protect yourself and u'r family--------and here's a selected group of gentlemen who make laws and also implements them,decide against your carrying them to court or in general its premises.
NOW,could somebody make me understand what should be my priority if someone shoots at me with an illegal or even a legal weapon in court premises.
1)I should consider the legality of situation?Think i'll be caught afterwards anyway and spend my whole life in jail.The judges will take note of the point that i brought a weapon to court and this will go against me.
OR
2)Should I protect myself using my weapon killing that beast or at least injuring him to neutralize him so that my family does not mourn and enjoys the benefits of those insurances early that i've paid premium so far.

Actually, if everyone entering a court room is searched, and it is ensured that no one entering is armed- as it is done in other countries- then that problem will not arise. Because the law will be enforced that no one is permitted to bring a weapon into court.

[bullshitwalks]

i am political figure and member of the ruling party

bullshitwalks,
I feel this forum is lucky to have people like you as members, who can help affect a positive change. I felt like asking you, if you do not mind, are you doing something to help make gun ownership processes smoother/quicker/easier in U.P.?(Within the present Arms Act) I had heard that previous Chief Minister had given a circular authorizing District Magistrates in U.P. to issue "All India" Licenses.(I do not know if it is correct)

Don't you think a similar circular can be given to issue a firearms licenses to people within a time frame, if a person is able to furnish certain documents?

the present government is very stringent in granting arms license. the former government had issued licences , in large numbers , justification of which is still being provided by the respective d.m.'s.
there was no ruling or guideline in the previous government directing local authorities to issue all india licences.