Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

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xl_target
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Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by xl_target » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:36 pm

Canada Searches for Next Polar Bear Gun
“The roughly 4,700 Rangers-sprinkled in 178 communities across the North are the backbone of the military’s presence in the region. They conduct patrols across the vast tundra and are equipped with Lee-Enfields, bolt-action, magazine-fed rifles that were standard issue during the first half of the 20th century.”

The army has been running out of spare parts for the Enfields, making their issue unreliable as polar bear guns. It has been trying to purchase new rifles for several years, but has yet to come across replacements for these polar bear guns. The Enfields, though, do have one advantage that future polar bear guns will need to match.

“The fact they don’t freeze up or jam in the Arctic is part of [the Enfield's] charm, so the army made the decision last year to equip regular-force units conducting operations in the North with Lee-Enfields until replacement weapons arrive, possibly next year.”
I'm surprised that they are still using the Enfield though I can see the logic behind their choice. It is a very tough, reliable and reasonably accurate rifle. However, I think any of today's big-bore bolt action rifles would work well. In conditions such as those, I would really hesitate to recommend a semi-auto. I have seen so many jam when it gets really cold.

When you have a gun out all day and then take it indoors at night, condensation forms on it. When you take it out the next day, that condensate freezes. Some oils will also become very viscous when cold and will prevent parts from moving like they should. If you have condensate/oil freeze in the firing pin channel, the pin will not fall or it may fall so slowly that it will not set off the cartridge. The action can freeze shut leaving you with a jammed single shot firearm.

Another option would be 12 gauge pump shotgun with 3" or 3 1/2" slugs, extended mag and an 18 inch rifled barrel with rifle sights. Brenneke sabot slugs are hardened and show impressive penetration. You can always rack a pump, even when the oil or condensate freezes. I've had to do it in -20 deg F weather.

A Keltec KSG would be almost perfect for that role, especially if equipped with a red dot sight and a good light. If a rifled barrel was available for it, it would be perfect. Having a rifled barrel will allow you shots up to 200 yards with slugs.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by xl_target » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:10 am

I found some photos of Canadian Rangers.

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You can clearly see the Enfield rifles here

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No. 4 Mk1 incorporated into their patch.

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image from HERE

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Image from HERE

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This guy already has a shotgun. Looks like an 870 (Click for large image)


Here is the website of the Canadian Rangers.
Wikipedia article
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by timmy » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:16 am

They may not be the most modern thing, but it's hard to argue with so many years of reliable performance.
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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by Vineet » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:28 am

Thanks xl-target for the post.

I thought that only the Indian police use this out-dated rifle. It feels good to know that we are not only the ones who use them today :)

How about replacing them with the Accuracy International AWSM (Arctic Warfare Super Magnum) rifle, that is specifically made to function in the extreme cold weather.

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by xl_target » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:52 am

Vineet,
I think the AI AWSM rifle is an exceptionally nice piece of kit but it seems those guys march around a lot and have to cover a very large territory. I don't know if they would want to lug a rifle that weighs 14.3 lbs empty. I definitely though about that rifle but figured they would discount it because of the weight.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by TC » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:33 pm

XL personally I feel the 303 Lee Enfield is one of the best rifles ever made. Its extensive use as a sniper rifle during WWII is a proof of that. Though unfit to serve the armed forces of today I feel proud to see our very own Ishapore rifle serving the Canadian Rangers.

Very nice post.

Thanks
TC

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by loner » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:59 am

How about those surplus L1A1s?

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by xl_target » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:50 am

loner, I think the FAL/L1A1/SLR is a great rifle but I believe they are looking for a bolt action rifle.

TC,
The Ishapore .308's would fit the bill perfectly, I believe. However, they are hard to come by. There are quite a few in private hands in N America but not so many on the open market and parts availability would likely be a problem for the Canadians.
On the other hand there is an Australian company that makes an upgraded Enfield that they call an M10. They even sell them in Canada. It looks like they have taken a page out of Ishapore's playbook and they are chambered in 7.62 X 51. They have done it one better though. They have match grade, free floated barrels, are drilled and tapped for a scope and the headspacing can be easily set enabling easy barrel change out.

Image
Australian International Arms M10
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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by loner » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:35 pm

xl_target,
What's the point of sticking to bolt actions when they have ample stock of surplus L1A1?

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by Hammerhead » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:27 am

loner wrote:xl_target,
What's the point of sticking to bolt actions when they have ample stock of surplus L1A1?
That's a normal life up there......

Image

Image

Regular semi-auto's freeze in cold winter of tundra and lots of wet and shivering hands - Haji
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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by timmy » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:16 am

For sure, you are right. It rather be like an African dangerous game hunter heading out with a semi auto, eh? Such behavior would be somewhat questionable, to say the least!
“There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know”

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by TC » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:37 pm

xl_target wrote:loner, I think the FAL/L1A1/SLR is a great rifle but I believe they are looking for a bolt action rifle.

TC,
The Ishapore .308's would fit the bill perfectly, I believe. However, they are hard to come by. There are quite a few in private hands in N America but not so many on the open market and parts availability would likely be a problem for the Canadians.
On the other hand there is an Australian company that makes an upgraded Enfield that they call an M10. They even sell them in Canada. It looks like they have taken a page out of Ishapore's playbook and they are chambered in 7.62 X 51. They have done it one better though. They have match grade, free floated barrels, are drilled and tapped for a scope and the headspacing can be easily set enabling easy barrel change out.

[ Image ]
Australian International Arms M10
australian

Thanks XL. Heard about this Australian rifle. Did not know it has a free floating match barrel. That's superb.
Thanks
TC

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by feedramp » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:54 pm

timmy wrote:For sure, you are right. It rather be like an African dangerous game hunter heading out with a semi auto, eh? Such behavior would be somewhat questionable, to say the least!
Does semi auto jam in African heat? I thought South Africans used the FAL extensively.
There must be some R1 kits still flowing around, they are like 500 bucks now, from what I see, those FALs were extensively used in Africa.

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by xl_target » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:10 am

Just thought I would add an update to this post, even though it is from quite a while ago.

Replacement selected for the Canadian Ranger's rifle.
The search for a new rifle fit for the Canadian Rangers has ended, and the replacement is surprising. Colt Canada was selected in late 2014 to provide rifles to replace the Rangers’ venerable No. 4 Lee-Enfields, which many assumed meant the next rifle would be a .223/5.56mm caliber AR-15 derivative, from the company’s lineup. Not so! While the new rifle will be made by Colt Canada, it has been derived from the Sako T3 CTR, and will be chambered in .308 Winchester.

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The Canadian Rangers require a hunting rifle for survival and self defence against large North American carnivores at ranges of 0 metres to 300 metres. Currently, the Rangers use the Lee Enfield No. 4 to meet these requirements but the age and the scarcity of parts for this weapon will soon make it very difficult if not impossible to maintain, according to the Department of National Defence and Colt Canada. Because of that the New Canadian Ranger Rifle (NCRR) system is being purchased to replace the Lee Enfields. Here are the details provided in an information sheet supplied to Defence Watch by Colt Canada: The NCRR will be used by CRs while patrolling some of the most remote regions of coastal, central and northern areas of Canada. The temperatures will reach as high as +39C with moderate to high humidity along coastal and forested regions and as low as -51C in arctic regions. For those CRs located in coastal areas, it is likely that the NCRR will be exposed to long term salt laden air and water. The NCRR will be transported by the CR on foot, wheeled commercial vehicles, skidoos, sleds, small boats and all-terrain vehicles. It must remain operable during and following exposure to these environments. Program Overview The Government of Canada and the Department of National Defence with Colt Canada, under the Munitions Supply Program (MSP) will replace the original Lee Enfield rifle fleet with a commercially available hunting rifle. The replacement will be a bolt action, calibre .308 Winchester, magazine fed rifle. Ancillary items, such as a hard transport case, soft transport case, sling, cleaning kit and trigger lock for each rifle will be procured at this time. Prototype rifles have been delivered to the Rangers and will undergo user trial evaluations from now till the end of 2015. Production of 6500 or more rifles is expected to commence in mid-2016 with a completion mid to end 2018.

Equipment Suppliers

Rifle: 1. The replacement rifle is based on the SAKO T3 CTR (Compact Tactical Rifle).
2.SAKO Ltd is based in Riihimaki, Finland.
3.The Canadian supplier is Stoeger Canada from Whitby, Ontario.
4.The first 125 prototypes have been delivered to Canada and they will undergo User Trials by the Rangers. Feedback from the Rangers will be incorporated into production rifles.
5.Colt Canada will produce the barrel, bolt and receiver under licence from Sako. Production is scheduled to begin mid to end 2016.
6.The Ranger Rifle has several Canadian modifications.
7.a) Larger bolt handle and enlarged trigger guard to accommodate gloved hands.
8.b) Protected front and rear iron sights.
9.c) Laminated stock in unique orange or red colour with Ranger Crest.
10.d) Two stage trigger with three position safety.

Ancillaries:

1. Pelican hard transport case with Ranger Crest and custom moulded internal foam supplied by Pelican Products ULC, from Edmonton, Alberta.

2. Cleaning kit, sling and soft transport case supplied by Rampart International, from Ottawa, Ontario.

3. Trigger lock supplied by The Old Co-Op, from North Gower, Ontario.”

It is crystal clear that the Rangers are taking the acquisition of their new rifles very seriously, and that they seek to replicate the best features of the old Lees while reducing length and weight, and securing a domestic supply of parts and ammunition. This is probably the first time a bolt-action rifle has been put through its paces to become a standard service arm since the 1930s, at the latest. It also marks the well-deserved final retirement of the Lee-Enfield as a standardized service arm, almost 140 years since the action was designed.
- See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... de9yx.dpuf
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: Canada searches for next Polar Bear gun

Post by Commonwealth_of_PA » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:01 am

A .303 for polar bears? What is the protocol, shoot your buddy in the leg and then run? :D

I'm not carrying a .303 for bear defense. Give me a smallish dangerous game rifle or I'll bring the 12 gauge with slugs.

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