Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

The legal aspects of owning, shooting, importing arms/ ammo and other related legal aspects as well as any other legal queries. Please note: This INCLUDES all arms licensing issues/ queries!
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Risala
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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by Risala » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:29 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:
it seems that it's better to get the records changed rather ignore it.
I did not understand your question.
Moreover as per my understanding I'll get stuck at the time of my renewal.
Why would you get stuck at the renewel?
GBM
Cause he has shifted residence....that means one has to intimate the licensing authorites in 30 days about it,since the jusrisdiction of the authority which will renew the lic has also changed
goodboy_mentor wrote:
Would be great but unlikely
I think just the opposite and it is only a matter of time, until people do not know that arms are a fundamental right of people under Articles 19 and 21 of the Constitution of India. I have tried to explain this at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p129992
One last time....Pl do not mislead the members here that RKBA is a fundamental right vide article 19 & 21....if it were true we would not be in the crap we are in right now,with the proposed amendments by MHA....the same has been confirmed by some of the best legal minds in the country.

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:29 am

Pl do not mislead the members here that RKBA is a fundamental right vide article 19 & 21
Not at all misleading. I am 100% sure and confident of what I am saying.

Unless we understand the basics we will be endlessly and pointlessly trading opinions. All Rights(whether enumerated or unenumerated) and laws flow from the Constitution only. The Legislature passes laws to:

1) Enable the rights. Example: RTI Act 2005 to enable Freedom of Expression under Article 19.

2) Regulate the rights. Example: The Passports Act 1967 to regulate Right to Life and Liberty. Arms Act 1959 to regulate RKBA. This can be ascertained by reading one of the objectives of Arms Act 1959. I have explained it in enough detail at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785

3) Protect the rights. Enacting penal laws to be used in case the rights are violated. Example: various penal laws like 302 IPC for murder(violation of right to life).

Please note: If any Right does not exist under the Constitution, the question of enabling, regulating or protecting that right by the legislature does not arise.

For the limited scope of this discussion, even if I agree to your contention that RKBA does not exist as fundamental right under the Constitution, in the following Objective of Arms Act 1959 can you please name at least two rights that are being co-ordinated and from where are these rights emanating from the Constitution?
(c) to co-ordinate the rights of the citizen with the necessity of maintaining law and order and avoiding fifth-column activities in the country;
if it were true we would not be in the crap we are in right now
Even if RKBA was explicitly enumerated like 2nd Amendment in US Constitution, we would have been in same crap(regulations and restrictions), if we did not have a strong organization like NRA of USA. How? By endless crap legislations under the garb of regulations and restrictions. Technically regulations and restrictions would not be a violation of fundamental right. Same thing(crap of regulations and restrictions) is happening in India. That is why NRA has a seperate wing for legislative action(http://www.nraila.org/) to take care of this crap.
the same has been confirmed by some of the best legal minds in the country.
The "best" legal minds does not necessarily mean that they are the "best" all the time and "best" in every aspect of law. After all they are human beings and have all the limitations of human beings. If the "best" legal mind is not able to understand a basic thing that RKBA is a fundamental right then I can say with certainty that he is not the "best" for fighting the case for RKBA. He has already displayed you that he has mentally accepted defeat even before picking up the case. Moreover "best" legal minds are also supposed to be sitting in Supreme Court as judges. I can even give you instances of Supreme Court being inconsistent and contradictory in its orders and judgments. Take the recent sedition case of Binayak Sen. In previous hearing same Supreme Court had refused bail to him, but now same Supreme Court in the same case granted bail to him. Hope you are able to make out and understand something from this. Hence at this stage let us not read too much into the statements of "best" legal minds.

Can you please elaborate what they were explained and informed? What they were asked?
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by hornet » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:51 pm

DURING PUNJAB elections it is going to be a mandatory deposit or u r lic. maybe cancelled.i am afraid the way they treat u r weapons after deposit is quite painfull situation . better buy good gun covers .use desi ones fancy ones get stolen in police stations too. better deposit with a gun dealer

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:10 pm

Please read the election commission's order and then reach a conclusion. You may also read this explanation http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 45#p130560
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by Virendra S Rathore » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:50 pm

better deposit with a gun dealer
Oh I didn't know depositing with a gun dealer was also a valid option. Thanks for the info.

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Virendra
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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by abhrankash » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:08 pm

Today some of my friends came from Orissa rifle association and right now they have been denied to claim their rifle that has been send to my friend from walther.

delhi custom refuse them to give their rifle until and unless he possess the lic.
he is having every document to claim the rifle except the lic.
ABHRANKASH

Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all others.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by nabeelmdkhan » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:52 pm

Sounds Great... Thanks for Sharing...
Cheers..
Nabeel.

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by goodboy_mentor » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:13 pm

delhi custom refuse them to give their rifle until and unless he possess the lic.
What is the reason they are saying? Probably they will show this Delhi High Court judgement as a reason http://lobis.nic.in/dhc/SRB/judgement/2 ... 912000.pdf Just get a transit license from Delhi Licensing Authourity that should solve your problem since no license is required for air rifles outside the area of jurisdiction of Delhi High Court.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by pandian1948 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:27 pm

N R A I & its affiliated association members need not deposit weapons during elections.
Why not write to the Election Commission in New Delhi and get a copy of their G O.

Pandian

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by sandhurs1 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:21 am

Now Same Ordeal Starts Again

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/201112 ... inda.htm#1

Arms deposit burdens cops, hurts licence holders
Balwant Garg

Faridkot, December 9
Following the Election Commission's directives to the police and civil administration to ask the licensees of fire-arms to deposit their weapons, the police have started the process of depositing the weapons but it is facing stiff resistance from many of the arms holders.

Earlier, the directive for depositing the fire-arms came after the elections were announced. But this time, being over cautious, the Election Commission wants to start the process in advance. The arms are to be deposited at the nearest police station and a receipt is to be obtained.

As the cops have to ensure round-the-clock vigil of the deposited weapons, the police are heavily burdened as they have to take care of over 3.30 lakh licensed weapons with 3,23,927 arms licensees in the state.

In Faridkot, the number of licensed fire-arms is 11,113. The maximum number of licensed weapons in Punjab is 35,794 in Gurdaspur, followed by 35,152 in Bathinda, 26,726 in Ludhiana, 25,801 in Moga, 22,500 in Amritsar, 21,503 in Hoshiarpur, 17,332 in Ferozepur and 17,120 in Muktsar.

While the police are seeking the help of private gun dealers to deposit these weapons and allowing them to charge monthly deposit fee from the weapon owners, many licensees who live on the outskirts of the city or in their agricultural fields, said that without their weapons, they are exposed to the threats to their life and property.

Earlier, many a time, the directions for depositing the fire-arms became a bone of contention when some citizens refused to surrender their weapons for various reasons and approached the courts, praying that the authorities be restrained from compelling the petitioners to deposit their weapons.

Various directions had been issued by the courts asking the authorities not to force the licence holders from depositing their weapons, said Mangat Arora, an advocate in Faridkot.

If it is found by the competent authority that there is a chance of the misuse of the weapon, only then would the fire-arms be deposited, he said

However, Sat Pal Singh Sidhu, SSP, Faridkot, said the police and the civil administration were working as per the directions of the Election Commission. "We got the instructions to ask the licensees to deposit their weapons last month," he said.

"People keep licensed weapons from the safety point of view. What's the point of having a licensed weapon if it's to be deposited? The police or the administration gives no surety of any untoward incident taking place. When proper verification is done prior to issue of an arms licence, then why this harassment," said Amrik Singh, a resident of Kameana village in Faridkot.

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by dr.jayakumar » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:30 am

sandhurs1 wrote:Now Same Ordeal Starts Again

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/201112 ... inda.htm#1

Arms deposit burdens cops, hurts licence holders
Balwant Garg

Faridkot, December 9
Following the Election Commission's directives to the police and civil administration to ask the licensees of fire-arms to deposit their weapons, the police have started the process of depositing the weapons but it is facing stiff resistance from many of the arms holders.

Earlier, the directive for depositing the fire-arms came after the elections were announced. But this time, being over cautious, the Election Commission wants to start the process in advance. The arms are to be deposited at the nearest police station and a receipt is to be obtained.

As the cops have to ensure round-the-clock vigil of the deposited weapons, the police are heavily burdened as they have to take care of over 3.30 lakh licensed weapons with 3,23,927 arms licensees in the state.

In Faridkot, the number of licensed fire-arms is 11,113. The maximum number of licensed weapons in Punjab is 35,794 in Gurdaspur, followed by 35,152 in Bathinda, 26,726 in Ludhiana, 25,801 in Moga, 22,500 in Amritsar, 21,503 in Hoshiarpur, 17,332 in Ferozepur and 17,120 in Muktsar.

While the police are seeking the help of private gun dealers to deposit these weapons and allowing them to charge monthly deposit fee from the weapon owners, many licensees who live on the outskirts of the city or in their agricultural fields, said that without their weapons, they are exposed to the threats to their life and property.

Earlier, many a time, the directions for depositing the fire-arms became a bone of contention when some citizens refused to surrender their weapons for various reasons and approached the courts, praying that the authorities be restrained from compelling the petitioners to deposit their weapons.

Various directions had been issued by the courts asking the authorities not to force the licence holders from depositing their weapons, said Mangat Arora, an advocate in Faridkot.

If it is found by the competent authority that there is a chance of the misuse of the weapon, only then would the fire-arms be deposited, he said

However, Sat Pal Singh Sidhu, SSP, Faridkot, said the police and the civil administration were working as per the directions of the Election Commission. "We got the instructions to ask the licensees to deposit their weapons last month," he said.

"People keep licensed weapons from the safety point of view. What's the point of having a licensed weapon if it's to be deposited? The police or the administration gives no surety of any untoward incident taking place. When proper verification is done prior to issue of an arms licence, then why this harassment," said Amrik Singh, a resident of Kameana village in Faridkot.
all these are british rule to contain us.we are still treated inferior to the rulers.rkba is ''naam kae vaas'' in india.
regards

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by .32 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:34 pm

sandhurs1 wrote: Kameana village
Names of certain villages do not fail to amaze me! :mrgreen:

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by veeveeaar » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:19 pm

Friends ,
This order is routinely issued'' without application of clear state of mind''as required by law and rules by our IAS and IPS "" learned "" babus. It defeats the very purpose of '' licence.''. During election season , all vulnerability is tested by political mobs/ gangs / as you name it, to intimidate the law abiding. Why cant the election commission try providing a police security man for'' every dis armed licencee''. this suggestion may be weird and impractical but it also bares the fact that the authorities are merely doing a blind routine and throwing the safety of law abiding citizens to the winds. Is there any notification or ultimatum to surrender all illicit arms or any serious effort is taken to weed out illegal arms ? atleast during election season.? It is just easy for the babus at all levels to issue an ultimatum to all licencees to surrender arms( as if they are the real threat ) or face action. The real action is not taken against illegal firearms . I would suggest that"" the hibernating"" NAGRI come out against this order.

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by perfectionist1 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:59 pm

Hi Guys,

This is a good topic started at this very appropriate time.

Thanks Ajay ji for your writeup with clear referencing on the rulings from the Election Commission website. But, if only the things were so straight, then despite being the fundamental right, it would not have been so .......difficult to obtain arms license.

Well, good to be educated than ignorant.

Cheers...

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Re: Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

Post by rahul_does » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:33 pm

mundaire wrote:
amk wrote:This is only if they ask you to deposit, right?

AMK
Yep!


I beg to differ.

If you DO NOT deposit, even if no one has come knocking at your door, (they do, at our place, Yamunanagar, Haryana)after the elections are over, a scrutiny is done of the defaulters and their licence stands to be suspended for 6 months to even warrant a cancellation!

Things getting computerised and all that, it is pretty easy for THEM to check who did and who all did not submit to the nearest police station or a gun shop of their choice and got the receipt entered in the police records.

So, either get an exemption or don't risk it. The person responsible for ensuring the Model Code of Conduct is law unto him/herself!

My unasked for Advice.

Ra.
Time heals many wounds and time wounds many heels.

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