ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

The legal aspects of owning, shooting, importing arms/ ammo and other related legal aspects as well as any other legal queries. Please note: This INCLUDES all arms licensing issues/ queries!
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:53 pm

What would be a good reason to mention while applying for a sword's license?
Self Defense. If LA asks why sword for self defense and why not a firearm? Because cost of legal firearms have been made artificially inflated by Government to make them beyond reach of common man, hence beyond your reach. :(
People who have successfully procured the license or know about swords may please guide me.
If your purpose is only "collection" etc., probably you may go for unsharpened sword. In my opinion(please do not consider this as legal opinion, this view needs confirmation) an unsharpened sword probably does not attract Arms Act because it does not have "sharp edge", hence not a "sharp edged" weapon, rather it is just like a metal strip. You may try search posts of Katana or PM him. In one of his posts he had mentioned that it is age old, common family tradition among Rajputs to keep swords. He seems to have lot of swords etc. maybe he can tell something more on this matter.
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by Virendra S Rathore » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:32 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:In one of his posts he had mentioned that it is age old, common family tradition among Rajputs to keep swords.
I know, however this hasn't been formally/legally recognized by the government as in case of Sikhs.
About this being a tradition, yes and actually it needs to be given as a practical requirement, such as - "need it for religious rituals - shastra puja in the traditional functions".
So along with Self Defense, it becomes two reasons to give. This begs the next question.
Is it a good idea to give 2 reasons? I don't want to do anything that kicks in a side effect, spooking them off.
It surely is going to be a tricky business convincing those paranoid authorities :)
Thanks for the feedback.

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Virendra
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:31 pm

Yes you may give another reason as "shastra puja" but it opens another question that how you were conducting "shastra puja" till now? Or you were not doing "shastra puja" till now but want to start doing it now?
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by Safarigent » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:27 pm

fellows,
so if a weapon is in an obsolete bore and of antiquarian design, then you dont need an arms license.
is that right?
and if some one does object, what do you do then?
i am going to udaipur, thought of looking up rajasthan armouries.
any help?
regards,
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:30 pm

Please read the first point (A) in the first post of this thread carefully again. The condition to be noted in that "which is not capable of being used as a fire-arm either with or without repair" Obsolete bore or non obsolete bore, antiquarian design or modern design, so long the device is able to discharge a projectile i.e. it comes under definition of firearm as mentioned in Arms Act 1959, it requires a license unless it has been notified by central government as exempt from requiring a license. Even muzzle loading guns(they are also of obsolete bore and of antiquarian design) also require a license.
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by Safarigent » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:41 pm

ok,
so as long as it is incapable of firing a projectile, its alright, but if it can, then its a strict no no.
thanks for that.
a
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:40 pm

but if it can, then its a strict no no.
Yes unless:

1) particular category of weapons have been notified by Central Government to be exempt from the requirement of license. Example: Point (D) mentioned in first post of this thread i.e. Air guns, air rifles etc. which pass the deal wood test.

2) particular group of people have been notified by Central Government to be exempt from the requirement of license. Example: People of Coorg race in Kodagu district of Karnataka can possess firearms without license. Ref: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13025
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by ankur1011111 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:56 pm

Use kitchen knife or razor instead :mrgreen:

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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by hornet » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:30 pm

can we import a compoud bow into india wihout any hassles...hornet

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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:44 pm

Yes you can import compound bow in India without hassles. Please search in relevant threads, this matter has been discussed there.
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by airgun_novice » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:58 pm

Now if the PM/ Prez/ etc. gets a Dao or a spear or a sword in NE India or anyplace else, does the HM first issue a license to him for the weapon to be presented or are the elected politicians above law ? After all, the PM/ Prez/ etc. would carry the presented weapons *outside* of the tribal or cultural area/ state, mostly to New Delhi, right ?

I presume that the weapon thus presented would be blunt or thick-edged (for show) and thus may be exempt from license; else the politician under consideration can be arrested for carrying without license, right ?

May be a PIL can be filed stopping such presentation *stunts* till such a time as RKBA becomes acknowledged Fundamental Right, what say ? After all why flaunt weapons in media (TV, Newspapers, Internet) which can be construed as real by majority of India's population and to which they are not given open and easy access by those very politicians themselves ?
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:22 pm

till such a time as RKBA becomes acknowledged Fundamental Right, what say ?
Fundamental Rights are not absolute. Any Fundamental Right can be regulated or reasonable restrictions be imposed by Government. The present legal position on RKBA is that it is a Fundamental Right that is being "regulated" by Arms Act 1959 by "restricting" arms ownership. RKBA is already acknowledged by our Constitution but this fact has escaped attention of most of the people and hence "hidden". This has been discussed at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 25#p131348 and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by airgun_novice » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:36 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:
till such a time as RKBA becomes acknowledged Fundamental Right, what say ?
Fundamental Rights are not absolute. Any Fundamental Right can be regulated or reasonable restrictions be imposed by Government. The present legal position on RKBA is that it is a Fundamental Right that is being "regulated" by Arms Act 1959 by "restricting" arms ownership. RKBA is already acknowledged by our Constitution but this fact has escaped attention of most of the people and hence "hidden". This has been discussed at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 25#p131348 and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785
:agree: Hence usage of the word "acknowledged" - not "assumed". *Acknowledgement* is more open, clear and precise than what is *assumed*. IMHO, Consider the Fundamental Right to assemble peaceably *and* without arms -> A six-inch ordinary folding knife is also an arm which incidentally is not restricted. Nowadays in public places it is so, but typically I can walk with one in my pocket without license or doing anything illegal. Now one has to "assume" that the arms mentioned up there also cover NP firearms. But had the usage of the term "arms" been "acknowledged" to cover any blade/ NP firearm then pushing RKBA would have been simplified. The police can still restrict even a 1.5" nail-cutter file to be carried in public meetings under the policy and without 'touching' the Constitution in any manner. So while I have the right to carry a 6" folder as an arm, my right to carry a 1.5" file/ blade in a nail-cutter can be restricted should I attend public meeting or go into a public place like a mall in Mumbai. Correct me if wrong.

-- Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:40 pm --
airgun_novice wrote:
goodboy_mentor wrote:
till such a time as RKBA becomes acknowledged Fundamental Right, what say ?
Fundamental Rights are not absolute. Any Fundamental Right can be regulated or reasonable restrictions be imposed by Government. [deleted for brevity]
:agree: We already have lost the Fundamental Right to Property under Mrs. G in 1970s. So 'Castle Doctrine' since has become defunct in India.
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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:05 am

A six-inch ordinary folding knife is also an arm which incidentally is not restricted. Nowadays in public places it is so, but typically I can walk with one in my pocket without license or doing anything illegal.
It may be illegal if there is a Notification applicable in your area, issued under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959 or some other law with similar effect. Please check if such notification or law with similar effect is in force in your area.
But had the usage of the term "arms" been "acknowledged" to cover any blade/ NP firearm then pushing RKBA would have been simplified.
Acquisition, possession and carrying of firearms and ammunition is "regulated" by licenses under Section 3 of Arms Act 1959. Acquisition, possession and carrying of arms other than firearms is "regulated" by Notification under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959. Reference: http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india ... r_1_2.html
The police can still restrict even a 1.5" nail-cutter file to be carried in public meetings under the policy and without 'touching' the Constitution in any manner.
Police on its own cannot "create" a law and enforce it. There has to be some legislation that has force of law. Police can enforce that law. Like if there is a notification under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959, Police can enforce that law.
So while I have the right to carry a 6" folder as an arm, my right to carry a 1.5" file/ blade in a nail-cutter can be restricted should I attend public meeting or go into a public place like a mall in Mumbai.
I am not sure whether you have "right" to carry 6" folder because in another thread it has been mentioned that spring actuated or button actuated knives are "prohibited"(Need to check if there is such notification under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959 or some other law). Reference: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=149 Even if you have "right" to carry, there is also another catch i.e. element of "intent". If you note the news and police statements, to be legally smart they usually say "Arrested Mr X with knife moving under "suspicious" behavior and circumstances"
We already have lost the Fundamental Right to Property under Mrs. G in 1970s. So 'Castle Doctrine' since has become defunct in India.
Sections 96 to 106 IPC for Right of Private Defense are very much there. Found an interesting related quote while reading another thread:
"The usual road to slavery is that first they take away your guns, then they take away your property, then last of all they tell you to shut up and say you are enjoying it." -- James A. Donald
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: ARMS WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE LICENCE

Post by Virendra S Rathore » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:25 am

It may be illegal if there is a Notification applicable in your area, issued under Section 4 of Arms Act 1959 or some other law with similar effect. Please check if such notification or law with similar effect is in force in your area.

Could you please tell me where/how to find out if such a notification is applicable ?

Regards,
Virendra
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