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New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

The legal aspects of owning, shooting, importing arms/ ammo and other related legal aspects as well as any other legal queries. Please note: This INCLUDES all arms licensing issues/ queries!
Anand
Posts: 574
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Location: Hyderabad

Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby Anand » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:53 pm

" by goodboy_mentor » Thu Oct 20, 2016 19:18
Requesting everyone to post the objectionable rules with your reasoning."

The objections and reasons as posted earlier by me in this Thread:

"Hello all,
What ever the legal course we take, to either object to the new Rules, or vie for changes etc. the points of concern are:

1.In case of grant of licenses, factor that there are several cases by various courts that licensing should be the norm and not the exception. The transparency of granting or rejecting is of paramount importance, so that, in case of rejection, timely and fair escalation to the appellate authority is available. :?

2.If all long guns are to be carried in a public place only in a holder or cover or rucksak or pouch, then if a licensee is to carry a long gun for defense, as most poor, rural/farmers would probably be apt to do, how are they to excercise their defensive rights? How can one, in case of a defensive scenario arising, remove a long gun from its cover and then get ready for the confrontation? This is not a well thought out rule and is really meant to reduce the people from carrying long guns in open and break India's "Gun Culture" :roll: .

3. Air rifles/guns of caliber above 4.5mm and those of energy of 15 ft.lbs are to be licensed, it is understandable if the energy limit is placed at 15 ft.lbs, but why any bore above 4.5mm? A .22 airgun can still qualify for the "below 15 ft .lb" category. This was aimed at pleasing Manekaji. Most Airsoft guns are usually of low velocity and much below the 15 ft.lbs limit, they have a bore size in excess of 4.5mm, as they are usually 6mm. How are airsoftguns a danger to wild life of to others? :?

4. A license for firearm free zones has been included, thereby allowing a mall,theatre, resaturant, hospital or school etc to prevent licensees for excercising their defensive rights. Just remember what happened at the Taj Hotel in Mumbai in 2008. If a place is known as a firearm free zone, would it not be an easy target/sitting duck. Most School or university shootings or in theatres or religious places in the USA or other places take place precisely for this reason. :cry:

5. The increase in license fees has been exponential, making it even more difficult for a poor farmer to afford it. This is nothing but economic discrimination. Is the cost of verifying the antecedents of a licensee so expensive, especially in an age of computers, internet and aadhaar cards? Or is the Govt. trying to make a profit on license fees? :cry:

6. Replica guns/imitation firearms etc have been brought into the ambit of licensing and recently an exemption has also been issued. However, the question is how can the Arms Act 1959 regulate something that is not an "Arm". The mere appearance of being an Arm cannot make it an Arm. The same logic should be applied to Blank guns. :shock: :?

While the positive changes are welcome, such as;
i.) increase in ammo quotas, ii.) time limit for Police report,iii.)increase in time granted for obtaining a new firearm, iv.) the deletion of the requirement to report to local police station within 48 hrs if travelling to a place outside normal residence, v.) inclusion of semi auto shot guns and .22 rifles in the permitted category, and clarifying what the truly restricted calibers are vi.)medical certificates, vii.) safety courses and vii.)safe storage requirements; :)
the latter three can easily be abused, as there is no clarity what the minimal standards are and who is to perform the checks. :(

As for the restriction on the number of firearms, and the duration of validity of license (3 years) can only be changed by amending the Arms Act 1959 itself.
It should be noted that one important aspect of the Arms Act 1959 is that not only can the Arms and ammunition be regulated by it, but also by any other law prevailing at that time. IMHO this is how the election commission issues notices for deposit of firearms during elections, and import of firearms (and all other things) is being regulated/restricted by Import/export policy.
When the time comes to make amendments to the Arms Act 1959 these points must be kept in mind.

Please add more concerns/ points to this list so it can be used to tweak the new rules.
Regards,
Anand"



goodboy_mentor
Posts: 2729
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby goodboy_mentor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:23 pm

Anand wrote:"Hello all,
What ever the legal course we take, to either object to the new Rules, or vie for changes etc. the points of concern are:

1.In case of grant of licenses, factor that there are several cases by various courts that licensing should be the norm and not the exception. The transparency of granting or rejecting is of paramount importance, so that, in case of rejection, timely and fair escalation to the appellate authority is available. :?
How do you prove to the court what you are saying is a fact? In Arms Act 1959 on paper everything appears good, if licensing authority rejects the application, then you can get the refusal in writing and appeal to the appellate authority, if still rejected you can approach High Court.
Anand wrote:2.If all long guns are to be carried in a public place only in a holder or cover or rucksak or pouch, then if a licensee is to carry a long gun for defense, as most poor, rural/farmers would probably be apt to do, how are they to excercise their defensive rights? How can one, in case of a defensive scenario arising, remove a long gun from its cover and then get ready for the confrontation? This is not a well thought out rule and is really meant to reduce the people from carrying long guns in open and break India's "Gun Culture" :roll: .
If you could mention the Rule number. Isn't it something similar to the Rules 10(4)(a)&(b) which I have mentioned in the previous posts?
Anand wrote:3. Air rifles/guns of caliber above 4.5mm and those of energy of 15 ft.lbs are to be licensed, it is understandable if the energy limit is placed at 15 ft.lbs, but why any bore above 4.5mm? A .22 airgun can still qualify for the "below 15 ft .lb" category. This was aimed at pleasing Manekaji. Most Airsoft guns are usually of low velocity and much below the 15 ft.lbs limit, they have a bore size in excess of 4.5mm, as they are usually 6mm. How are airsoftguns a danger to wild life of to others? :?
How do you prove to court that it is to please Menakaji?
Anand wrote:4. A license for firearm free zones has been included, thereby allowing a mall,theatre, resaturant, hospital or school etc to prevent licensees for excercising their defensive rights. Just remember what happened at the Taj Hotel in Mumbai in 2008. If a place is known as a firearm free zone, would it not be an easy target/sitting duck. Most School or university shootings or in theatres or religious places in the USA or other places take place precisely for this reason. :cry:
Isn't it something similar to the Rules 10(4)(a)&(b) which I have mentioned in the previous posts? Can the government give a bond in writing that such a scenario in "gun free" zone will not happen? If no then it is unreasonable and unjust, I should be allowed to carry my lawful weapon. Why not?
Anand wrote:5. The increase in license fees has been exponential, making it even more difficult for a poor farmer to afford it. This is nothing but economic discrimination. Is the cost of verifying the antecedents of a licensee so expensive, especially in an age of computers, internet and aadhaar cards? Or is the Govt. trying to make a profit on license fees? :cry:
What you are saying is correct but the increase has been done after 1962. License fee is a tax. How do you prove the tax is unjustified or without lawful authority? Article 265 of Constitution can help you because it says "No tax shall be levied or collected except by authority of law."
Anand wrote:6. Replica guns/imitation firearms etc have been brought into the ambit of licensing and recently an exemption has also been issued. However, the question is how can the Arms Act 1959 regulate something that is not an "Arm". The mere appearance of being an Arm cannot make it an Arm. The same logic should be applied to Blank guns. :shock: :?
Yes it is clearly ultra vires of Section 45(c) of Arms Act 1959. Blank guns are not firearms. Courts should not normally have problem understanding this.
Anand wrote:While the positive changes are welcome, such as;
i.) increase in ammo quotas, ii.) time limit for Police report,iii.)increase in time granted for obtaining a new firearm, iv.) the deletion of the requirement to report to local police station within 48 hrs if travelling to a place outside normal residence, v.) inclusion of semi auto shot guns and .22 rifles in the permitted category, and clarifying what the truly restricted calibers are vi.)medical certificates, vii.) safety courses and vii.)safe storage requirements; :)
the latter three can easily be abused, as there is no clarity what the minimal standards are and who is to perform the checks. :(
Personally I am not happy due to various reasons. They apparently look good on paper but safety courses and safe storage requirements are a clever weapon to "prune" arms license applicants to reduce their numbers. Many people who don't have spare time or poor people who cannot afford all this will not even apply for arms license. Anyways I have tried to attack this in my previous posts under Rules 10(4)(a)&(b).
Anand wrote:As for the restriction on the number of firearms, and the duration of validity of license (3 years) can only be changed by amending the Arms Act 1959 itself.
It should be noted that one important aspect of the Arms Act 1959 is that not only can the Arms and ammunition be regulated by it, but also by any other law prevailing at that time. IMHO this is how the election commission issues notices for deposit of firearms during elections, and import of firearms (and all other things) is being regulated/restricted by Import/export policy.
When the time comes to make amendments to the Arms Act 1959 these points must be kept in mind.
Nothing much to worry about "any other law" so long it does not infringe your rights. But if it infringes your rights then it is a matter of concern.

Election Commission does not issue notice for blanket confiscation. This has been discussed here http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 92#p158088 It is usually the local authorities using high handed approach and illegal orders ask every arms license holder to deposit their guns. Besides referring to the High Court judgments, does anyone have the copy of these illegal local orders to convince the Court?

Bringing in or out of country of arms or ammunition for private use is non commercial activity and thus a matter of personal Liberty under Article 21 of the Constitution, that is exactly why no import or export license is needed for the same under Section 10(1)(a) of Arms Act 1959. The import policy related to personal firearms is clear violation of Article 21.
Anand wrote:Please add more concerns/ points to this list so it can be used to tweak the new rules.
Regards,
Anand"
Well I see the things differently. Not much interested about matters under "license". Why? Because RKBA is a right atleast under Articles 19(1)(b), 21, 25 and 300A. Can Parliament impose reasonable restrictions on fundamental rights? Yes and sufficient reasonable restrictions are already there in Arms act 1959. For example age has to be 21 years, not mentally unsound etc. etc. Can the Parliament by enactment reduce fundamental rights to licenses? As per me, answer is, it depends, can be yes or no. Yes if fundamental rights are commercial. No if they are matter of personal or private rights.

This can be said to be a wall of separation between the State and fundamental rights. Article 25 gives insight into this aspect when it says that so long the matters are not public order, morality, health, commercial or political activity, the State cannot interfere. For regulating commercial activity, authority can be created under Article 307. The licensing authority under Arms Act 1959 has been created under Article 307 to regulate trade, commerce and intercourse related to arms. Anything that is not trade, commerce and intercourse related to arms, licensing authority cannot issue license and take tax. How possession of guns for self defense, recreation or sports be a matter of commercial activity and thus be subject of licensing taxation under Arms Act 1959 is something difficult to understand.

For example the professions of chartered accountants, doctors, advocates and notaries are fundamental right under Articles 19(1)(g) of the Constitution of India and thus do not require any license. This fact of law that a fundamental right cannot be a subject of license can be ascertained by reading together Article 19(1)(g), Article 265 and the Chartered Accountants Act 1949, the Indian Medical Council Act 1956, the Advocates Act 1961. Even the Notaries under Notaries Act 1952 do not need a license since their profession is a fundamental right under Article 19(1)(g). They need a certificate under the Notaries Act 1952 only because the Notaries are appointed by the State. Similarly we do not need any license or certificate to possess mobile phones for our personal possession or use because it is a non commercial possession or use and fundamental rights flowing from Articles 19(1)(a) and 21 of the Constitution of India. Since it is a matter of non commercial, personal possession and use, the Parliament is not competent to reduce the personal possession or use of mobile phones to subject of licensing or certificate. Any views contrary to this are much appreciated.


All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche

rahul_does
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby rahul_does » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:22 am

goodboy_mentor wrote:
Anand wrote:"Hello all,
What ever the legal course we take, to either object to the new Rules, or vie for changes etc. the points of concern are:
contrary to this are much appreciated.


Great going!
rahul_does wrote:
StampMaster wrote:Hi rahul_does

appreciate your work. Please post the required paper (legal document) and address to be sent here. So we can print, sign and send it back.

And I request all members, non-members to get signature of all their family, friends, neighbors, colleagues etc. The bigger the size of the people participating the better.


Thanks a lot for the appreciation.

I will get the text, momentarily.


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Added in 33 minutes 53 seconds:
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!
Simple resolution.

That the undersigned members present have formed a an association with the name and style.

And agree to appoint xyz as office bearers.

To undertake and fulfil the deaired objectives.

GoodBoy_MentorJi can substantiate upon the text of the resolution.

One paper will have to be circulated amongst the signatories.

All the NCR signatures, I can get on my Bulltt bike.

Let's begin.

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Great going! He, as I am, is a paper man. I will print these posts, pronto and take them to him.

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Harshal777
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby Harshal777 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:09 am

I had visited Badruddin Abdultayeb Gun shop @ Rayiwar Peth for repairing my old .22 air rifle. He told me these Arms Rules will be applicable from April and after that they will not able to sold any air gun (.22) without license for the same. He also gave me advice to obtain license for my air gun. Any one can tel me how I can apply for license ?



PRITAM PATEL
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby PRITAM PATEL » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:45 pm

Harshal777 wrote:that they will not able to sold any air gun (.22) without license for the same. He also gave me advice to obtain license for my air gun. Any one can tel me how I can apply for license ?


None is clear reg. Lic. for Airgun at this moment

Even Licensing Authority has no idea how to impose new Act.

regards


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Optional : Proper inglish n gramer

taurean
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby taurean » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:50 pm

Dear moderators/Experts,
I bought a .22 cal air rifle (AK 500 Agni) for hobby target shooting a few weeks back from kovibazaar.com without knowing the new Act 2016. They didn't even ask for my id proof and the rifle reached me last friday. Now i'm worried if it is safe to keep it. I checked with a few armories here and they said they aren't yet notified about the new Act and they continue to sell .22 to people without license. The sales person at the armory said its fine to keep it without license. I read somewhere that the ACT will be effective only on April and is not yet made into a law. Kovibazaar support guys said we have a stay from supreme court on this ACT. Do we have any hope of getting this law amended/stayed? Should I really apply for a license now? Is it mandatory to join a rifle club to get a license? Experts, please advise this newbie. Thanks in advance.




Anand
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby Anand » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:45 am

These I found online and may answer some questions
Anand
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



nraja4321
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby nraja4321 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:32 am

Is this new arms rules has brought any changes in renewal process or any revised renewal fee . I have arm licence due on December 23 , here in Bangalore urban . Anyone recently renewed their licence here in Bangalore , please share your info. Thanks

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mundaire
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby mundaire » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:51 pm

Renewal fees have been exponentially increased to ₹1,500 per firearm (i.e. ₹500 per year for three years). The idea seems to be to prevent people from owning firearms by making it unaffordable for most.


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nraja4321
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby nraja4321 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:44 pm

Wow .. that's 15 times more than my previous renewal in 2013 . Man they charged only 60 rupees on that time .

MUNDAIRE. . Thank you so much for giving me a quick response . It really help me .


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Sanzar yassir
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby Sanzar yassir » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:43 pm

Sir
How can i take membership..?
Can you plz tell me the procedure



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Vikram
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby Vikram » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Sanzar yassir wrote:Sir
How can i take membership..?
Can you plz tell me the procedure


Which membership are you referring to?


It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

Sanzar yassir
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby Sanzar yassir » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:41 pm

like to take membership in rifle club thiruvananthapuram



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kml
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Re: New Arms Rules 2016 notified by Government of India!

Postby kml » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:17 am

So what are we suppose to do now?? Apply for a license for our existing .22 air rifle?




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