RTI regarding Ammo Quota (Delhi Police)

[inplainsight]

Hello,

I had sent a RTI query to the Delhi Police a few weeks ago and received their (worthless) responses today. I am typing the questions and their answers here

Q1) On what basis is the quantity of Ammunition Quota on an Arms License allotted? Please cite specific sections of the Arms Act (1959) and/or Arms Rule (1962) and/or Notifications in Official Gazette.

A1) At the time of issuance of fresh Arms License, a quota cartridges of 25/50 is allotted to all license holder, as per existing norm in accordance with S.O. No. 264.

Q2) What is the requirement to have the Ammunition Quota increased on an Arms License issued for Self Protection?

A2) As per MHA's guidelines issued vide No. V.11016/16/2009-Arms, dated 31.03.2010 "A higher quantity of ammunition will be allowable on merits in exceptional cases, for good and sufficient reasons to be given by the licensee, with the approval of Secretary (Home Department) of the State concerned.

Q3) Which Handgun (Pistol/Revolver) Cartridges are considered 'Prohibited Bore' under the Arms Act?

A3) Please refer to Arms Act and Schedule-2 of Arms Rules - 1962.

Q4) Which Rifle Cartridges are considered 'Prohibited Bore' under the Arms Act?

A4) Please refer to Arms Act and Schedule-2 of Arms Rules - 1962.

Q5) Which Shotgun Cartridges are considered 'Prohibited Bore' under the Arms Act?

A5) Please refer to Arms Act and Schedule-2 of Arms Rules - 1962.

Q6) Can a revolver chambered for the .38 Special cartridges be endorsed on a 'Non-Prohibited Bore' License?

A6) Opinion based questions are not covered within the purview of RTI-Act, 2005.

I want to appeal this and wanted to know the following

a) Regarding the answer to question 1
i) Request a copy of S.O. No. 264
ii) Request clarification / information as to how this S.O. takes precedence over Arms Act and Arms Rules

b) Regarding the answer to question 2
i) Request clarification / information as to how this 'Guideline' takes precedence over Arms Act and Arms Rules.

c) Regarding the answer to question 3/4/5
i) Request the Appellate Authority to direct the PIO to give me a detailed list of those calibers considered PB.

d) How is question 6 considered 'opinion based'?

Should I consider another approach?

Thanks,
Kandarp

[nagarifle]

one needs to ask the questions which is loaded. always ask if otherwise to provided copyes of notification. check other RTI threads on how to ask questions

[inplainsight]

one needs to ask the questions which is loaded. always ask if otherwise to provided copyes of notification. check other RTI threads on how to ask questions

I see that now! This was the first RTI that I've ever filed, next time I'll try to trap them better

[nagarifle]

http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17583

[goodboy_mentor]

nagarifle has rightly advised and also provided a good link. You can also read the following link on how to write successful RTI applications https://www.box.com/shared/btgj98hovi

a) Regarding the answer to question 1
i) Request a copy of S.O. No. 264
ii) Request clarification / information as to how this S.O. takes precedence over Arms Act and Arms Rules

You can request a copy of S.O. No. 264 either by appeal or doing another RTI application. You cannot ask "how" "why" etc. If anyone is aggrieved by the fact that Licensing Authorities are giving precedence to S.O. over Arms Act and Arms Rules, one can approach High Court.

b) Regarding the answer to question 2
i) Request clarification / information as to how this 'Guideline' takes precedence over Arms Act and Arms Rules.

You cannot request "clarifications" or explanations under RTI. RTI is only about getting existing information "as is". If aggrieved by the fact that Licensing Authorities are giving precedence to guideline over Arms Act and Arms Rules, one can approach High Court.

c) Regarding the answer to question 3/4/5
i) Request the Appellate Authority to direct the PIO to give me a detailed list of those calibers considered PB.

Their answer are incorrect. If you want you can appeal to PIO for providing incorrect information. There is no such thing as PB in Arms Rules. Categories 1b and c of Schedule I in Arms Rules have been unofficially given name of PB.

d) How is question 6 considered 'opinion based'?

Because you used the word "can" instead of information. Any caliber that in not in Categories 1b and c of Schedule I in Arms Rules is NPB.

[inplainsight]

Would framing it like this be better?

1. Please provide a list of Handgun (Pistol/Revolver) Cartridges which are considered ‘Prohibited Bore’ or ‘Restricted Bore’ and cannot be endorsed on a ‘NPB License’?
2. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules or regulations classifying arms chambered for a .38 Special Cartridge as ‘Prohibited Bore’ or ‘Restricted Bore’.

[nagarifle]

they will only say see section so and so and your are back to square 1

there is no list as for 2: they will say as per above

[inplainsight]

I know, but how can one get them to give a 'list' of all the calibers considered PB?

[nagarifle]

there is no list so no question of giving it

[goodboy_mentor]

Yes there exists no such list for PB or NPB in their office, therefore you cannot compel them to provide you with a copy of that list(information). Alternatively you can seek information as to how many license holders have .38 special caliber endorsed on their NPB handgun license in their office.

If they are refusing to endorse .38 special caliber on your NPB license, you can approach High Court for a writ. The moment you decide to approach High Court, send me a PM, will provide you plenty of points.

[Amit357]

Yes there exists no such list for PB or NPB in their office, therefore you cannot compel them to provide you with a copy of that list(information). Alternatively you can seek information as to how many license holders have .38 special caliber endorsed on their NPB handgun license in their office.

If they are refusing to endorse .38 special caliber on your NPB license, you can approach High Court for a writ. The moment you decide to approach High Court, send me a PM, will provide you plenty of points.

gbm,i wish to file a RTI on how many people have approached the High Court regarding any provision of The Arms Act,last i knew a very knowledgeable Judge had issued a Notice to MHA as why Arms Licenses are not renewed for at least 10 Years,and guess what ,the notice is still pending though the Judge had retired a couple of years ago

[goodboy_mentor]

Surely you can file RTI with High Courts to know how many people have approached to get writ issued for the issuing of arms license under Arms Act 1959. Your frustration created by our corrupt and lethargic system is understandable. But what is the solution? Either fight the system wisely or get the system changed, isn't it?

[inplainsight]

Yes there exists no such list for PB or NPB in their office, therefore you cannot compel them to provide you with a copy of that list(information). Alternatively you can seek information as to how many license holders have .38 special caliber endorsed on their NPB handgun license in their office.

If they are refusing to endorse .38 special caliber on your NPB license, you can approach High Court for a writ. The moment you decide to approach High Court, send me a PM, will provide you plenty of points.

GBM, Thanks for your input. I don't own a .38 special. I wanted to get something from the Delhi Police Licensing clearly telling us what is PB and what is NPB. I thought it would be useful to have such a list available on the board.

Although, I am tempted to take them to court over their response to Answer 1 & 2!

[BowMan]

Q1) On what basis is the quantity of Ammunition Quota on an Arms License allotted? Please cite specific sections of the Arms Act (1959) and/or Arms Rule (1962) and/or Notifications in Official Gazette.

A1) At the time of issuance of fresh Arms License, a quota cartridges of 25/50 is allotted to all license holder, as per existing norm in accordance with S.O. No. 264.

I would be more interested in knowing the file noting etc. which would possibly reveal the reasoning on which this limit has been fixed.

[inplainsight]

Q1) On what basis is the quantity of Ammunition Quota on an Arms License allotted? Please cite specific sections of the Arms Act (1959) and/or Arms Rule (1962) and/or Notifications in Official Gazette.

A1) At the time of issuance of fresh Arms License, a quota cartridges of 25/50 is allotted to all license holder, as per existing norm in accordance with S.O. No. 264.

I would be more interested in knowing the file noting etc. which would possibly reveal the reasoning on which this limit has been fixed.

I have sent another query for a copy of S.O. No. 264. Wonder if anyone here has heard of it before?