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The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Past and future planned - events/ outings/ training sessions/ offline meets/ camps/ matches etc.
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TC
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby TC » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:49 pm

Baljit wrote:Wow!! very nice pictures and writ up about your trip. For sure you smile says everything about gun show.

Thanks for shearing these pictures with all of us.

Baljit


Thanks you my friend. But that was only a few hours. Wish I could spend a months :D

ckkalyan wrote:
pistolero wrote:Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Post by essdee1972 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:50 pm
How does one immigrate to the Philippines?

:D "Marry a Filipina" :D


ROTFL - Good one!

Thanks very much TC for sharing images and your fun expereince at the Manila Gun Show.


Thank you Kalyan Da.

:cheers:

TC



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xl_target
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby xl_target » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:03 pm

I tried half a mag in it. It was simply fantastic. It was the first time I fired an M16.
After this, a dealer who had become a friend almost instantly insisted that I try out an Daewoo 5.56 mm rifle and an Israeli 9 mm pistol, a clone of the Tanfoglio. Both weapons felt good, well-balanced and had easy to reach controls.

Could you give us your impressions of the Daewoo compared to the M16. The Daewoo assault rifle has always intrigued me.
They have some interesting pistols too.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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TC
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby TC » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:52 pm

xl_target wrote:
I tried half a mag in it. It was simply fantastic. It was the first time I fired an M16.
After this, a dealer who had become a friend almost instantly insisted that I try out an Daewoo 5.56 mm rifle and an Israeli 9 mm pistol, a clone of the Tanfoglio. Both weapons felt good, well-balanced and had easy to reach controls.

Could you give us your impressions of the Daewoo compared to the M16. The Daewoo assault rifle has always intrigued me.
They have some interesting pistols too.


Hello XL,
This was years ago but I will still try and recollect because some of the impressions are still fresh.
To start with, all the weapons were factory fresh, hence the actions were tight. Yet, the M16 Sporter had a fantastic trigger, crisp, almost tuned and broke smoothly. In comparison, the Daewoo had a tighter trigger and took almost 8 to 10 lbs to break. There was no way to measure it. This is just my guesswork.

This was the rifle

Image
From Here : http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/9/9b/ ... woo-K2.jpg

The fit and finish was fine, if not excellent, but somehow couldn't match the M16 Sporter which was supposed to be a rifle built with a purpose. The Daewoo on the other hand was a standard rifle meant for general issue. What intrigued me was the Daewoo's weight and dimension. It was certainly not as light as I had expected it to be from the looks. The receiver was slightly bigger in overall dimension than the Colt's. One thing I remember distinctly and this is it no matter how hard I tried I could not rest my cheek comfortably at a certain angle and align my eye along the sights. I had to raise my head a bit to shoot comfortably. Interestingly, I had never faced this with the FN FAL which I had fired so many times before. The home made FALs appeared more shooter friendly than this Daewoo. Otherwise it was a fine rifle, sturdy and reliably, apparently.

The M16 Sporter was a dream. It was muzzle heavy, just a little, and it helped in realigning during fast successive shots. I double tapped it twice and the feeling was great. The trigger broke like glass, something you don't expect from a rifle right out of the factory. (On second thoughts after all these years, probably it was not) The empties ejected smoothly and landed almost exactly at the same spot every time. (Ejection and cycle in the Daewoo was smooth too so no minus points here but its muzzle jumped more)

Frankly speaking, since I was not going to buy anything and the ammo was free I was in no mood to ask for more ammo. These people were so friendly and polite that I simply did not feel like bothering them any more. All the ammo were imported, they said, and hence couldn't have been cheap. I was still the same Indian, you see :lol: :lol:

The pistol I fired was probably a standard Jericho 9mm but it bore an IMI marking if I remember correctly. Probably something to do with licencing / import issues. This was it

Image
from here : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... o_941F.jpg

This was the best 9 mm pistol I had fired till 2001. The action was smooth as butter and it shot like a dream. The trigger was tight though and would need a lot of shooting to break in, just like the rifles. But what impressed me the most was the pistol's almost-natural ability to recover and get ready for the next shot. I guess the design of the slide, which runs snugly inside the frame and not outside like most pistols, has got a lot to do with the pistol's ability to handle so well. Frankly, it was the pistol that shot two-inch groups at 20 mts. I simply held it right, aligned the sights and let off the shots. This is one fine handgun.

Well, this is becoming quite exhaustive. Will wait for your comments XL. You have spent a lot more time with these guns.

:cheers:

TC
Last edited by TC on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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xl_target
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby xl_target » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:07 pm

TC,
The Daewoo looks to be a real rugged little rifle. The gas system is derived from the AK47 but the fire control group and the bolt carrier is similar to the AR-15. For some reasons, to me, it resembles (at least externally) the Galil/Golani sporter rifle. I handled a Golani at a gun show and was surprised at the weight. It was much heavier than I thought it would be. Like you mentioned, the AR15 is quite light compared to that. My AR, even with the optics and mounts installed is much lighter than the Golani.

The Israeli Jericho (aka baby Desert Eagle) is basically a Tanfoglio pistol with an enlarged full-length dust cover. This provides it with some individuality and differentiates it from Tanfoglio’s other products. The problem is that all that steel, which is mostly for cosmetics, makes the pistol heavier than it needs to be. From what I understand, Tanfoglio provided the parts (at least initially) and IMI assembled the pistols. There were rumors that, later on, IMI actually started producing the parts themselves. My take on the Jericho is that it is a decent range pistol but a little too heavy to carry all the time. They are definitely reliable and quite accurate for a service pistol. I have a friend who has one that I have shot and the weight and low bore axis makes it pleasant to shoot.
To understand the Tanfoglio TZ75 (and its variants) , one has to look at the CZ75. Considered a state secret when it came out, nothing on it was ever patented. This allowed anyone to reverse engineer and reproduce it, without any repercussions. Tanfoglio of Italy jumped on the bandwagon early and started producing copies. Compared to the CZ75, there are very small differences in how some of the parts function but I don’t believe that parts are interchangeable. Both the CZ75 and the TZ75, have the slide riding on rails inside the frame, which gives it a very low bore axis. This in turn seems to help in mitigating recoil. Since they have been making the basic TZ75 (and its variants) for decades, they have got all the bugs out of them and the pistols are generally considered to be as reliable as the original CZ75. In most cases the fit and finish is decent and the accuracy is usually excellent. The issue with the early Tanfoglio designs, including the Jericho was that the entire pistol was made out of steel. So you end up with a very 1980’s-ish pistol; quite heavy, but with decent fit and finish. They are also decent value for the money.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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TC
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby TC » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:16 pm

XL,
You are absolutely right about the Daewoo. It is quite heavy as I mentioned and has some resemblance to the Galil. I fired a Galil once at an army facility in the Northern Command. It was a very nice rifle with reliable action. This piece was part of a batch that was brought in for trials when the Army was looking for replacement for the Ishapore FAL. Under the skin the Galil is an AK but the Israelis made some improvements taking the rifle a few notches up the scale. I assume the guys at Daewoo tried to do the same.

You are correct about the Jericho's weight. Its heavy - good for shooting bad for packing :lol:
But I assume it was the weight that made it so stable in my hands when I shot the groups. A senior police officer I have known for years imported a CZ75 for personal use under special permission from the home ministry. Many of them do and the real enthusiasts even get two or three during their service life. He invited me to a police training school one day and gave me a box of ammo to fire. The pistol, still factory fresh, felt nice and shot really well. Since I had fired the standard issue Browning Hi Power before I could immediate make out that the CZ 75 was a better engineered pistol and certainly more accurate. It is a pistol once can rely on. God bless reverse engineering :D

Thanks for the valuable inputs XL.

:cheers:

TC



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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby ARAE » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:52 pm

:cheers: :cheers: :agree: :agree:
pistolero wrote:Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Post by essdee1972 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:50 pm
How does one immigrate to the Philippines?

:D "Marry a Filipina" :D


ARAE

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brihacharan
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby brihacharan » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:52 pm

TC wrote:
I was in Manila for a professional course at the Asian Institute of Management. Visited the fair and had a gala time the day before I left the country. Made some good friends. For a man who has grown up with firearms this was a treat. Virtually all big names in the small arms manufacturing business in USA and Europe were represented at the show by their dealers. Found these photos after a long time. Wanted to share with my dear friends on IFG :D

Hi TC,
Thanks for sharing the wonderful pics & the narration :D
You must have felt like a kid in a toy shop...I am sure :lol:
Essdee's query about migrating to Philippines has been very precisely answered ROTFL
This reminded me of my visit to Philippines a long time ago....
Wanted to buy a authentic "Manila Shirt"....The one I liked was made of a mixture of silk & rayon...
But the price the 'pretty girl' behind the counter quoted was a bit beyond my budget....
While leaving I thanked her in 'Tagalog' the local language "Marumi Salamat" = Thank You....
By Jove this worked wonders....she gave me a big smile and said "You can take it at 25% discount" which is allowed for the staff...She billed it under her name :D
This happened way back in 1986 - I still have the shirt with me :D
Briha



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TC
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Re: The Gun Show at Manila, Philippines, 2001

Postby TC » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:37 pm

brihacharan wrote:TC wrote:
I was in Manila for a professional course at the Asian Institute of Management. Visited the fair and had a gala time the day before I left the country. Made some good friends. For a man who has grown up with firearms this was a treat. Virtually all big names in the small arms manufacturing business in USA and Europe were represented at the show by their dealers. Found these photos after a long time. Wanted to share with my dear friends on IFG :D

Hi TC,
Thanks for sharing the wonderful pics & the narration :D
You must have felt like a kid in a toy shop...I am sure :lol:
Essdee's query about migrating to Philippines has been very precisely answered ROTFL
This reminded me of my visit to Philippines a long time ago....
Wanted to buy a authentic "Manila Shirt"....The one I liked was made of a mixture of silk & rayon...
But the price the 'pretty girl' behind the counter quoted was a bit beyond my budget....
While leaving I thanked her in 'Tagalog' the local language "Marumi Salamat" = Thank You....
By Jove this worked wonders....she gave me a big smile and said "You can take it at 25% discount" which is allowed for the staff...She billed it under her name :D
This happened way back in 1986 - I still have the shirt with me :D
Briha


Brihaji, I did feel like a kid in a toy shop and played to my heart's content. Would love to see a pic of you in the shirt :D

TC




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