Reasonable Gun Control needed

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
User avatar
AgentDoubleS
Poster of the month - Apr 2015
Poster of the month - Apr 2015
Posts: 579
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:12 pm
Location: Here and there..

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by AgentDoubleS » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:55 am

Nattu wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:21 am
Mr. Eljefe, you being a doctor, having seen and treated so many patients with gunshot wounds are naturally against guns of every type...
ROTFL
I had a good chuckle reading through this statement. Not sure how and where you got this idea?! Stop making a mockery of yourself. Pause. Read. Research. Discuss. Learn. Most importantly stop judging people you’ve not known, met or interacted with. He’s re-built more rifles than most of us could ever imagine holding in our hands in a lifetime.

Or.. It must be eljefe’s alter ego giving me all that advice around ballistics, reloading equipment use and maintenance, casting, rifle builds, introducing kids to safe firearm handling and the list goes on. Did not know you have this anti gun side to you, chief?

For Advertising mail webmaster
User avatar
Woods
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:36 pm

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Woods » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:03 pm

An article published a while ago ......https://tntribune.com/gunning-for-fair- ... -in-india/
Great men are not born great , they grow great .

User avatar
timmy
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2185
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
Location: home on the range

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by timmy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:26 am

You look great in that picture, Abhijeet!
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

Nattu
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:12 am

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:17 am

Doctor eljefe ji!
If the statement that "It is natural for you, as a doctor dealing with GSW, to be against guns" is offensive I apologise and withdraw it. The way you were reeling out statistics about lethality of every calibre of gun led me to believe so.
It is apparent that 'Right to Own a Gun' will never be accepted in India or anywhere else in the world. The best one can hope for is liberalisation of owning a certain category of guns for recreation. The various shooting associations should lobby for that. The state governments can consider recreation as sports and license these guns for recreation. This would give a fillip to competence in arms technology and manufacture and lead to Atma Nirbhar in defence needs of armed forces. Most importantly this will help change the genetic timidity in future generations of Indians.

User avatar
timmy
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2185
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
Location: home on the range

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by timmy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:58 am

Nattu wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:17 am
Doctor eljefe ji!
If the statement that "It is natural for you, as a doctor dealing with GSW, to be against guns" is offensive I apologise and withdraw it.
???

If you don't know whether you have done something wrong, why are you apologizing?

We all know who el jefe is and what he stands for here. Apparently, you do not. A real apology would admit that you were wrong to accuse him falsely, as you so obviously have.

Why don't you just "man up" for your improper words?
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

User avatar
AgentDoubleS
Poster of the month - Apr 2015
Poster of the month - Apr 2015
Posts: 579
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:12 pm
Location: Here and there..

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by AgentDoubleS » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:13 am

Nattu wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:17 am
. Most importantly this will help change the genetic timidity in future generations of Indians.
And now you’ve classed 1.3billion people as timid?! And wider availability of firearms for sports would address this ‘genetic timidity’ (whatever that is!) ?! I’m not even sure how to contest that!

User avatar
eljefe
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2626
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by eljefe » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:39 am

Nattu wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:17 am
Doctor eljefe ji!
If the statement that "It is natural for you, as a doctor dealing with GSW, to be against guns" is offensive I apologise and withdraw it. The way you were reeling out statistics about lethality of every calibre of gun led me to believe so.
Nattu
Last I checked, this was INDIANSFORGUNS. and gun talk is expected.If I join up indiansforrhetoric, It will be a different story...
In my argument, I put forth claims,grounds, warrants ,backing and qualifiers.

Guns are such a sensitive topic world over, can evoke feelings from instant bonding to utter reprehension.

If i am on a gun related web board, ,its because it stokes my interest to no end. And, if we end up converting neophytes to be staunch and erudite gun supporters, our purpose is fulfilled. So, learn to polish up your claim, back it with evidence and facts and enjoy the passion.
Welcome to HELL WEEK- may it make a better gun lover out of you.
Now go forth, do your research and put up your best
''It dont mean a thing, if it aint got that zing!''

"...Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..."

Nattu
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:12 am

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:00 am

Nattu wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:17 am

It is apparent that 'Right to Own a Gun' will never be accepted in India or anywhere else in the world. The best one can hope for is liberalisation of owning a certain category of guns for recreation. The various shooting associations should lobby for that. The state governments can consider recreation as sports and license these guns for recreation. This would give a fillip to competence in arms technology and manufacture and lead to Atma Nirbhar in defence needs of armed forces.
it is strange that none has considered the above worthy of comment, but hope that GOI will somehow
relent and make ownership a right.

Nattu
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:12 am

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:30 am

timmy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:58 am


If you don't know whether you have done something wrong, why are you apologizing?

We all know who el jefe is and what he stands for here. Apparently, you do not. A real apology would admit that you were wrong to accuse him falsely, as you so obviously have.
Why don't you just "man up" for your improper words?
What logic is this timmy sir? one apologises only if one insults another inadvertently. if done purposefully, only cowards will apologise. I didn't do purposefully so apologised.

User avatar
Woods
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:36 pm

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Woods » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:19 am

One stray thought - let alone the gun control , the aftermath of banning us from buying any gun made by international manufacturer has been a golden opportunity for gun dealers , some NRAI people and even some RKBA activists . They have been acting in tandem with each other and moderating things to keep the pool muddy .
Great men are not born great , they grow great .

User avatar
timmy
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2185
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
Location: home on the range

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by timmy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:08 pm

Nattu wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:30 am
timmy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:58 am


If you don't know whether you have done something wrong, why are you apologizing?

We all know who el jefe is and what he stands for here. Apparently, you do not. A real apology would admit that you were wrong to accuse him falsely, as you so obviously have.
Why don't you just "man up" for your improper words?
What logic is this timmy sir? one apologises only if one insults another inadvertently. if done purposefully, only cowards will apologise. I didn't do purposefully so apologised.
Wow.

Whatever.
“The principle of self defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” - Maya Angelou

partheus
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by partheus » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:59 pm

GurnaniM wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:01 pm
i agree 100% with eljefe its "Shot Placement" that dictates the lethality of the bullet not its NPB / PB stature. Also as pointed out multiple times the notion behind introduction of PB /NPB was to serve the interests of then British raj in essence .. as such its just differentiating the service caliber. (worth noting in contrast to PB 9mm the more powerful. 357 magnum & 45 acp are NPB). Also the stats about 3100 gsw deaths by PB will also be so as the requirement of using firearms in line of service is that much higher than most armed civilians who will use it as a last resort and then too in large percentage brandishing or warning shot itself deters the threat.
Not sure if terminal lethality of a cartridge is the rationale behind the whole NP/PB division. Whatever the law makers were thinking, I do believe the current rules effectively discourage military and police armouries from becoming targets of interested civilian parties. If I were to entertain the idea of civilians using the same cartridges as govt agencies do, is it too much to imagine backdoor nexuses forming wherein military ammunition is being siphoned off to civilian markets?

In general talk, I get the feel many people think PB munitions are 'P' because they are inherently better than their NPB cousins. This really isn't the case. Military, LEO agencies have needs that go beyond effectiveness. One of the driving reasons why some cartridges are all the rage in govt circles is because they are being mass produced all over the world and have fairly mature supply chains that can be relied upon in war time.

The latest and greatest cartridges don't mean much if you run out of them on day one and then can't source them. 9 mm para, 5.56 and 7.62 NATO and 7.62X39, are being produced in most industrialised countries in the Nothern hemisphere. All of them are sufficiently powerful for their intended purposes and given their availability come at reasonable cost, hence why militaries around the world prefer them.

User avatar
pistolero
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 4:43 pm
Location: Dubai

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by pistolero » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:26 pm

A question can we get a stastics, that how many "crimes" or criminal shooting was done with Licensed firearms in the last 10 years. A person using his firearm, to defend life and limb automatically becomes are criminal. Or am i wrong in assuming this? Given circumstances, how many incidents of misuse are there in the last 10 years.

Further if we co-relate this with crimes committed by other instruments or vehicles should give a real statistic.

Wish we could get such data
"Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame."

Nattu
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:12 am

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:22 pm

20000 CAPF jawans guarding 450 VIPs; Another 5000 guarding lessor mortals like bureaucrats, judges etc serving and retired; about a lakh of security personnel in the states protecting VIPs; lakhs of private security personal guarding industrialists, their residences, factories, farm houses. All residential complexes having watchmen. Don't all these protection show that the law and order in India is abysmal? Shouldn't ordinary citizens, also have some means to protect themselves? Gun being the simplest and most effective tool, which nullifies any advantage the attackers may have by way of numbers, age or physique, Shouldn't buying it be made easy like buying a vehicle?

Nattu
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:12 am

Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:44 pm

As per one report in 2016 there were about 3 million licenses. Assuming each person held the allowed 3 licenses, there were 1m people with licensed guns. About that time there were reportedly 500 incidents with licensed guns. A mere .o5%. Doesn't this warrant liberalisation of gun licensing?

Post Reply