Reasonable Gun Control needed

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Nattu
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Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:59 am

In india, there is no bar on owning a gun(!), provided, it is of NPB, not imported and one obtains a licence for it. The conditions are eminently reasonable but in the present scenario, effect a de facto ban on owning a gun. You can buy only IOF guns, unreliable, badly made copies of more than hundred year old pistols and revolvers at exhorbitant prices, much like the rickety Ambassador cars Indians were forced to buy once. Secondly, one can get a gun licence only if one can convincingly show that his life is under threat, which effectively rules out mostly everybody. These are the two conditions fire arm enthusiasts should canvass to modify. One should be able to buy the NPB guns from any source, even without a threat to one's life.

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by mundaire » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Hit the nail on the head in your very first post! :) Welcome aboard Nattu

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by sourabhsangale » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:28 pm

Nattu wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:59 am
In india, there is no bar on owning a gun(!), provided, it is of NPB, not imported and one obtains a licence for it. The conditions are eminently reasonable but in the present scenario, effect a de facto ban on owning a gun. You can buy only IOF guns, unreliable, badly made copies of more than hundred year old pistols and revolvers at exhorbitant prices, much like the rickety Ambassador cars Indians were forced to buy once. Secondly, one can get a gun licence only if one can convincingly show that his life is under threat, which effectively rules out mostly everybody. These are the two conditions fire arm enthusiasts should canvass to modify. One should be able to buy the NPB guns from any source, even without a threat to one's life.
Nice thought but if that is allowed there will me murder every day every where , only one needed of weapon shall be granted .what is going is good for everyone .

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by timmy » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am

I have to take the stand that law-abiding citizens ought to have gun rights, unless it is proven that they shouldn't for some reason. To say that people shouldn't have gun rights because there will be murders all the time is just unsubstantiated speculation, and certainly no basis for denying honest folks their rights as citizens.
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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Shivakr » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:52 am

I have experience only with airguns.. actually bought one recently after a gap about 20 years.. I am totally for right to own firearms.. Recently before purchasing airgun I have been reading, visiting websites to update myself on the options available..

What worried me are YouTube videos of people with powerful air rifles .. they are not following basic safety.. Because of our gun laws, a generation has not been exposed to firearms, most people don’t understand the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm or say airgun..

After seeing the airgun I bought few of my relatives & friends found it very attractive & have ordered for themselves & their kids.. they don’t know basic safety.. they think I am over cautious and these are toys..

We need to educate the mass on the safety & responsibility of owning one..

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:11 am

sourabhsangale wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:28 pm

Nice thought but if that is allowed there will me murder every day every where , only one needed of weapon shall be granted .what is going is good for everyone .
I don't mean one should be able to buy a gun like a mobile phone. There will of course be a background check before getting a permit to buy a gun, and a practical test before one gets a license to use it. Importantly the threat to life or property will not be the criterion to get a permit. Wonder how effective is a NPB gun having a bore of .32 or less as an offensive weapon. Experts please illuminate!

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Regarding transfer of arm licence

Post by Skylark » Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:39 am

Friends I need to transfer my license from commissionerate to collectorate in tamilnadu..please tell me the procedure

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by sourabhsangale » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:25 am

Nattu wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:11 am
sourabhsangale wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:28 pm

Nice thought but if that is allowed there will me murder every day every where , only one needed of weapon shall be granted .what is going is good for everyone .
I don't mean one should be able to buy a gun like a mobile phone. There will of course be a background check before getting a permit to buy a gun, and a practical test before one gets a license to use it. Importantly the threat to life or property will not be the criterion to get a permit. Wonder how effective is a NPB gun having a bore of .32 or less as an offensive weapon. Experts please illuminate!
Actually this np and pb is nonsense . All caliber should be available to anyone but license should be strict just like now .

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by nagarifle » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:55 am

timmy wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am
I have to take the stand that law-abiding citizens ought to have gun rights, unless it is proven that they shouldn't for some reason. To say that people shouldn't have gun rights because there will be murders all the time is just unsubstantiated speculation, and certainly no basis for denying honest folks their rights as citizens.
i dont did gun to commit murder[no intention of doing it] just a nice car will do , for which i dont need licence of any kind, come to think of it a hammer would do as nicely and cheaper then the cost of .32 shot

Timmy agree with what you say.

just because i have a car does not mean i want to drive it. i have a hammer which i hardly use.

my next question is should hammers be banned as they might be used to murder? how about your house bricks, they could be used to murder as well, and not the least the elastic in your knickers could be used to strangle someone, lets ban them as well.

its not the gun or the knicker elastic that murders, if they did then they will be in court, i have in all my life never heard of a gun or elastic being persecuted and found guilty in court. if someone has please let me know and i will stand corrected.

its the evil hearted mankind that murders, guns and bricks are just the tools,
until the law can change evil hearts, murder will always be there, guns and knicker elastic will always be blamed.
Nagarifle

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:02 pm

timmy wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am
I have to take the stand that law-abiding citizens ought to have gun rights, unless it is proven that they shouldn't for some reason. To say that people shouldn't have gun rights because there will be murders all the time is just unsubstantiated speculation, and certainly no basis for denying honest folks their rights as citizens.
A
The campaign to relax gun laws will be more effective, if the demand for RKBA is replaced, by a demand to liberalise the ownership of atleast NPB guns for recreation and not just self defence or sports. RKBA doesn't exist anywhere in the world, except US and Northern Ireland and will never be accepted in India or anywhere else.

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by sourabhsangale » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:06 pm

No campaign or anything will help to get license easily.
Its the harsh truth of this country.

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by UDAYANJADHAV » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:15 pm

timmy wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am
I have to take the stand that law-abiding citizens ought to have gun rights, unless it is proven that they shouldn't for some reason. To say that people shouldn't have gun rights because there will be murders all the time is just unsubstantiated speculation, and certainly no basis for denying honest folks their rights as citizens.
Couldn't agree more.

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Mr.Shome » Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:30 am

sourabhsangale wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:28 pm
Nattu wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:59 am
In india, there is no bar on owning a gun(!), provided, it is of NPB, not imported and one obtains a licence for it. The conditions are eminently reasonable but in the present scenario, effect a de facto ban on owning a gun. You can buy only IOF guns, unreliable, badly made copies of more than hundred year old pistols and revolvers at exhorbitant prices, much like the rickety Ambassador cars Indians were forced to buy once. Secondly, one can get a gun licence only if one can convincingly show that his life is under threat, which effectively rules out mostly everybody. These are the two conditions fire arm enthusiasts should canvass to modify. One should be able to buy the NPB guns from any source, even without a threat to one's life.
Nice thought but if that is allowed there will me murder every day every where , only one needed of weapon shall be granted .what is going is good for everyone .
'Murder everyday, everywhere....good for everyone'. Absolutely nonsensical, as I conclude from the observations made by other members on the forum, of course, provided that licenses are issued in the true spirit of the suggestion made by our new member.

Ability and mentality, rather than monetary or political influence. Just an example, the licenses of the late fugitive, Mr Vikas Dubey and his stooges were renewed, despite outstanding criminal cases during their lifetimes ...this was completely in contradiction to the law. On the other hand, a man was clubbed to death a couple of days back by two goons, despite complaining to the police about threat from the goons (it's on the news from Gaziabad) ... No, he didn't ask for a license ... The point is, he wouldn't have got one for self defense, sports etc. as he didn't even get protection.... (he happened to be a streetside shopkeeper) without taking this further.... does it still seems that our country is on the right track as far as arming citizens is concerned?
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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by Nattu » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:15 pm

NPB isn't PB
As per the 2014 statistics 500 out of 3600 gun shot deaths were by licensed guns. How many of these 500 deaths were due to NPB - .22lr to .380 ACP- guns? Considering that these guns are practically non-lethal, unless the shooter was a marksman or the victim very unlucky, the deaths were likely caused overwhelming by PB guns. It is therefore irrational to treat NPB guns on the same footing as PB guns. These guns aren't effective for self defence, not fit for sports, and no good against wild animals in the field. Why make these as conditions for license? Make good antecedents and training in usage as sufficient for issue of license for NPB guns.

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Re: Reasonable Gun Control needed

Post by eljefe » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:21 pm

Nattu wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:15 pm
NPB isn't PB
Considering that these guns are practically non-lethal, unless the shooter was a marksman or the victim very unlucky, the deaths were likely caused overwhelming by PB guns. It is therefore irrational to treat NPB guns on the same footing as PB guns. These guns aren't effective for self defence, not fit for sports, and no good against wild animals in the field. Why make these as conditions for license? Make good antecedents and training in usage as sufficient for issue of license for NPB guns.
a. .22 LR and .32 ACP are calibers of choice in Olympic shooting.
b. Whats your experience of lethal Vs non lethal wounds caused by NP bore calibers?
c. Shooter doesnt need to be a marksman of major standing to squeeze off 2 centre body mass and one to the head at 7 m or less- which are considered handgun encounter ranges after a study involving thousands of gunfights by the DOJ in USA. Jessica Lal was indeed very unlucky and her assailant wasnt a marksman...
d. PB was /is a hangover of our colonial past when the British banned the .450 service rifle cartridges after the Sudan and other uprisings,iirc in the 1890’s to prevent the locals from arming themselves easily. Our ‘rulers’ followed suit and the legacy remains.
While the rationality of classifying calibers into NP and PB bores is itself an oxymoron, lethality is NOT an index. A 240 gr SN bullet from a NP bore .315” is far more lethal than a P bore .223 FMJ.
e. We have poorly trained Police, ballisticians and Forensic back up to validate the actual lethality of a GSW in a human. Therefore the statistics will be all over the place. I have personal experience of Police trying to convince me a GSW with contact , powder burns and stippling on skin- was actually from about 15m away! That the victim had a considerable amount of alcohol in his system- lab documented- and was a cop who fell down while in the cups and had an AD with his service pistol. How many such insightful statistics make the majority of what is presented to the public? Incidentally, the 115 gr fmj from the Glock missed his femoral artery by mm and he survived.
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