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Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
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Kumarnishith
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Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby Kumarnishith » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:39 pm

Just came across an article in today's Hindustan Times "Ranchi version" Newspaper..It seems like the reporter is having a preconceived notion that all the people having multiple gun license are goons & dons. Kindly go through the link..

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... bp9XM.html

-Nishith

No more flaunting of multiple arms by Bihar ‘dons’; just one license valid from April 1
Updated: Mar 22, 2017 18:50 IST
Avinash Kumar
Hindustan Times, Patna

Bihar’s high and mighty, for long been given to flaunting fancy weapons, sometimes as a status symbol and at other times as an intimidation tactic, will soon experience a severe curb in such display of their power and sway..

For, kicking in on April 1 is the new arms license issuance system (ALIS), under the union home ministry’s national database of arms licences (NDAL) project. It clearly lays down that any individual can hold just one arms license, instead of multiple licenses, as being held at present by held by many ‘bahubalis’ in Bihar at present.

This effectively means any Bihar ‘bahubali’ (muscle-endowed) criminal-politician or a politician or bureaucrat, will be able to wear just one weapon on a single arms license!

While uploading arms licenses data for NDAL, the Bihar government has found that thousands of people, including politicians, musclemen and contractors, hold multiple arms licences, even as thousands of fresh applications for issuance of arms licences remain pending with different district magistrates.

“In many cases, people appear to have got multiple licenses issued just to flaunt weapons as a status symbol. In some cases, one person was found to hold up to three arms licences. Multiple licenses in the name of one individual won’t be valid, come April 1”, said an official of the home department.

Patna district magistrate Sanjay Kumar Agarwal told HT that in Patna alone, from where around 8,000 entries have been made in NDAL, around 750 persons were found to be holding multiple arms licences.

The Bihar government, like other state governments, has to upload all data related to arms licences to NDAL software latest by March 31. Any arms license whose data is not uploaded by that date will be rendered invalid with effect from April 1.

So far, in eight districts of Bihar, including Begusarai, Bhagalpur, Jehanabad, Jamui, Munger, Nalanda and Patna, the process of data entry of arms licences has not been completed, partly owing to ambiguity over what was to be done with multiple arms licences issued in the past.

Now, Bihar’s home department has made it clear through its letter to all the district magistrates that an individual can have just one arms license in his/her name.

With the March 31 deadline close to expiry, principal secretary, home, Amir Subhani has written to DMs of all 38 districts of Bihar to complete the exercise on a priority basis. It was during a review of what was delaying the data uploading exercise, that the authorities stumbled upon incidence of people having multiple arms licences.

Reached for a reaction, Darbhanga DM Chandra Shekhar Singh confirmed that under the new NDAL rules, an individual would be eligible for only one arms license.

As such, several DMs have directed the holders of multiple arms licenses to deposit them in the offices of the district arms magistrates with a request letter for their consolidation/merger into a single license and to get the endorsement of their firearms on the new license, under his/her unique identity number (UIN) under NDAL.

An arms magistrate of a central Bihar district told HT that a license holder should deposit the arms license(s) and obtain a receipt by March 31, without fail. “After this deadline expires, any license not uploaded under NDAL or submitted to the authorities was liable to be cancelled”, he said.



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marksman
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Re: Another blow to RKBA?

Postby marksman » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:33 pm

One need not worry if one is a sports shooter. This one's pertaining to license issued under self protection category I assume. I may be wrong but then the authorities can interpret it to their convenience, which again is pretty common amongst BABOO JAMAAT.
All the best anyways if you happen to be staying within the jurisdiction of Republic Of Bihar.

Marksman



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mundaire
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Re: Another blow to RKBA?

Postby mundaire » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:45 am

The only portion of the article worth looking at is:

As such, several DMs have directed the holders of multiple arms licenses to deposit them in the offices of the district arms magistrates with a request letter for their consolidation/merger into a single license and to get the endorsement of their firearms on the new license, under his/her unique identity number (UIN) under NDAL.


This means that persons must have all arms owned by them consolidated into one arms license booklet, it DOES NOT mean that anyone having more than one arms license would have the others cancelled!

Forget the rest of the article, it just displays the usual poorly researched (and understood) fluff that the media dishes out in the disguise of news.

Another interesting tid bit is:
Patna district magistrate Sanjay Kumar Agarwal told HT that in Patna alone, from where around 8,000 entries have been made in NDAL, around 750 persons were found to be holding multiple arms licences.


If the above means that there are only 8,000 arms license holders in a district like Patna, it truly is a sad reflection of how irrational arms licensing is pushing more and more people towards preferring to own illegal guns, in stead of applying for an arms license. The morons in charge do not seem to realise that Arms Licenses are like the "whistle" on a pressure cooker... if you block the "whistle", the pressure inside the cooker will reach dangerous levels and eventually explode!

Added in 15 minutes 11 seconds:
Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1
It seems that at the deadline of April 1st will be missed at least by Bihar (if not by other states as well).

See http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 7lDXN.html

Bihar set to miss arms licenses database deadline
Updated: Mar 15, 2017 19:45 IST
Avinash Kumar
Hindustan Times, Patna

The Bihar authorities appear set to miss the March 31, 2017, twice extended, deadline for digitisation of arms licenses in the state, under the National Database of Arms Licenses (NDAL) project.

Thanks to factors, such as hiccups in the flow of the required information from the licensees’ end, the process of uploading arms licenses data in an electronic format developed for the purpose by the National Informatics Centre, has failed to make the desired progress.

Despite extension of deadline for completion of the process twice – from September 30, 2015 to March 31, 2016 and then to March 31, 2017, the Bihar home department looks in no position to furnish all information on arms, their make, their sellers and their owners.

According to reports available here, out of 38 districts in Bihar,14 districts have not even started uploading arms license data under the project.

Under the project, after the details of arms license are entered, a unique identification number is assigned to the license holder, without which no arms license shall be considered as valid with effect from April 1, 2017.

In view of the approaching revised deadline for digitalization, the state home department has organized video conference on Thursday (March 16) with arms magistrates in each district to address the issue.

A directive has also been issued to all district magistrates to speed up the process.

In addition to the issuance of a unique identification number and digitalization of database, stringent regulations have been put in place for issuance and renewal of arms licenses across the country, as part of an initiative to curb terrorist activities.

The database contains information such as the name and address of the license holder, the type of weapon and the license number. Arms license holders in all districts were notified about the regulation through the respective offices.

Despite persistent queries from HT, no official was willing to say whether or not the March 31 deadline for uploading the arms licenses data would be met.


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nitroex700
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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby nitroex700 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:46 pm

UP & Bihar, and of late West Bengal, have become a hub of criminal activities. Muscle power has virtually replaced state power. Cancellation of multiple arms licenses of the 'Bahubalis' is a good step in this direction. In fact people with criminal cases should have all their licenses cancelled but somehow the reverse generally happens in these states.



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mundaire
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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby mundaire » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:15 pm

nitroex700 wrote:UP & Bihar, and of late West Bengal, have become a hub of criminal activities. Muscle power has virtually replaced state power. Cancellation of multiple arms licenses of the 'Bahubalis' is a good step in this direction. In fact people with criminal cases should have all their licenses cancelled but somehow the reverse generally happens in these states.


a) Anyone can have a case registered against them (even falsely), this does not necessarily mean that they are criminals. Until someone has been convicted of a crime penalising him/ her (in any manner) goes against all principles of jurisprudence

b) Making things "stricter" NEVER prevents the type of people you describe, from getting arms licenses! They are willing AND able to use money and power to swing things in the direction that suits them. Stricter rules/ implementation ONLY makes things harder for the ordinary HONEST citizen who is unable/ unwilling to pay bribes/ use clout to get things done.

c) When the Arms Act allows a citizen to hold a maximum of up to 3 firearms, then what can be the reason from preventing an honest law abiding citizen from enjoying his rights (whatever little they are)? If someone is owning one firearm in a responsible manner, then how does he suddenly become "dangerous" if he owns more than one firearm? Anyhow, logically can anyone use more than one firearm at a given time. So, how does having more than one/ multiple firearms contribute to crime?

d) Where firearms are used in the commission of crimes, they are overwhelmingly illegal arms. Tightening arms licensing is less than useless in curbing crime.

One needs to understand that the Arms Act and arms licensing in general is NOT designed to/ nor meant to/ nor expected to curb crime. It is merely a tool designed to curb/ prevent armed rebellion against the state.


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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby goodboy_mentor » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:04 pm

mundaire wrote:It is merely a tool designed to curb/ prevent armed rebellion against the state.
I would disagree with this opinion because Article 35 of the Constitution is for ensuring "Legislation to give effect to the provisions of this Part."(Part III). If some disagrees, I would request him to download the complete copy of the Constitution from Law Ministry's website. Then go to Article 35 and have a look on the right hand side. It is clearly mentioned "Legislation to give effect to the provisions of this Part." It means Arms Act 1959(legislation as per Article 35) enacted by Parliament by following Article 35, is to give effect to the rights in Part III. All these rights are flowing into Arms Act 1959.

Arms Act 1959 is a specific legislation enacted by the Parliament, by following the Article 35 of the Constitution, to give effect to the right of self defense and right to keep and bear arms guaranteed, by combined reading of Articles 19(1)(b), it's reflection in Articles 51A(b)(c),(d) & (i), and Articles 21, 25(1), Explanation I in Article 25, 26, 27, 29(1) and 300A of the Constitution, all read together. Despite this effort by Parliament under Article 35, the many provisions of Arms Act 1959, due to lack of clarity and confusion, are not only causing gross injustices and violation of the fundamental human rights guaranteed in the Constitution but also destroying the very foundations of sovereign relationship between the citizens and the State they created.

Yes if someone says notwithstanding the Constitutional positions, the more and more State becomes illegitimate and fragile due to it's corruption and injustices, driven by fear of popular rebellion to these injustices to replace the present State with a new State, it becomes brutal and unreasonable in nature that includes attacking basic human rights like right of self defense and it's tools. This fact is not about any particular country but a universal political fact. Then it is true all these gun control laws are tools to suppress popular and real political will of the people as a last resort. In short it is the fraudulent politics of legitimizing the illegitimacy of State, ensured by monopoly of violent force by State. This has been going on for thousands of years, and have earlier also mentioned about this and also provided the links in this post here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25006#p247416


"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby essdee1972 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:50 pm

In my humble opinion, the reporter, or anyone else, expecting this or any other restriction, to impact possession of firearms (of whatever bore / caliber, in however many numbers) by politicians and so-called bahubalis, is living in cloud-cuckoo land, high on some potent substance, or is a certified citizen of the famous country called "Utopia".

These restrictions, all over the world, are used to crush common people. The only politicians / goondas who just might be affected by this rule are those belonging to opposition parties, and that too till the next elections.


Cheers!

EssDee
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a polity, each citizen is to possess his own arms, which are not supplied or owned by the state.Aristotle

Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.Bob Marley

VNM
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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby VNM » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:23 pm

If NDAL portal opening again, I have missed the registration. Please advise what to do now.



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mundaire
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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby mundaire » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:28 pm

AFAIK not all states/ jurisdictions have been able to comply with the April 1st deadline. You are best advised to go to your local licensing authority and ask them what procedure to follow.


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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby indiaone » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:48 pm

In one license a individual can hold upto three fire arms, is that the correct postion? Goodboy_mentor may please enlighten us on this point.



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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:03 am

indiaone wrote:In one license a individual can hold upto three fire arms, is that the correct postion? Goodboy_mentor may please enlighten us on this point.
In legal language license is a permission. For every firearm, you have to apply for license. Some States issue separate booklet for every license, some States just endorse another firearm on the same booklet. It basically means the same thing i.e. you are having separate licenses. Yes an individual can have maximum of three licenses unless is a renowned shot etc. This limitation also does not apply for gun shops, companies etc.

But till this day I have not been able to get any convincing answer from where the Indian Parliament got jurisdiction, to make something that is a non commercial right, a matter of licensing and taxation(license fee is a tax). Various licensing authorities(including arms licensing authorities) have been created from powers under Articles 265 and 307 of the Constitution read together, to regulate activities of "trade commerce and intercourse". An individual or private/ personal possession of firearm does not come under realm of "trade commerce and intercourse" by any stretch of imagination. Then how the licensing authorities under Arms Act 1959 are getting jurisdiction to issue license for activity(possession) that is private or personal right?


"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby indiaone » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:45 pm

Thanks for your clarification. Sir



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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby mundaire » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:07 am

FYI the cut off date has been extended to 1st April 2018, this would be (at least) the third such extension AFAIK.


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Re: Another blow to RKBA? Arms licenses being cancelled from April 1

Postby Ajaaybeer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:55 pm

UIN no. under NDAL software is 18 digit identity number. It sounds similar to Adhaar which is a 12 digit no.
I have a gut feeling that govt. wants to link arms licence to Adhaar but since it can cause another debate as initially it was projected Adhaar is for susidy linkages, therefore they have come out with UIN No. which may be easily linked for monitoring.
Its my personal opinion and i don't have any proof of any such possibility in future.
Its so easy to check fingerprints on gun with your Adhaar biometrics in a few seconds. But presently there are already cases pending before Supreme Court related to Adhaar therefore there is possibility govt. wants to do it undercover.
One can understand the attitude of govt. from recent F.I.R lodged on reporter who exposed the data compromise to authorities.
The nation is going towards bigger threats and controversies where every move of citizen and every purchase you make , your eating to sleeping and spending habits will be monitored to design products which will be addicting.
This is the new area where Big companies are ready to invest, to study consumer habits and behaviour.
The govt. agencies are already trying to control what you see on T.V and social media. They have a full technical support.
Visuals and news and propaganda are enough to shape public opinion. And depriving citizens of arms , suppressing public voice , altering history are enough to kill democracy.
Problem lies, that there are very few intellectual persons who understand the threat. I used the word intellectual instead of educated. I substituted it because I believe intelect is not solely dependent on education.
Thus few voices goes unheard in the crowd of the not so intellectuals .
Say for instance, the discussions that heat up on IFG forums are otherwise unheard in daily life. Who else discuss this around you, except this forum (the same topic that goes here). Here is a quote :

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

WINSTON CHURCHILL

Thats all i have to say.

Sincerely
A.S. Sandhu


Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a WELL-ARMED lamb contesting the vote!

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN


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