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The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry law

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Mark
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The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry law

Postby Mark » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:00 pm

Illinois was the last state to ban citizens from carrying concealed pistols. A bill had been proposed that the Governor vetoed, and the rest of the lawmakers were able to overturn his veto. (Actually a much longer story but that is the short version).

There are many details to be fleshed out, but it is on the books now so it will be only a matter of months now.


"What if he had no knife? In that case he would not be a good bushman so there is no need to consider the possibility." H.A. Lindsay, 1947

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xl_target
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby xl_target » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:38 am

So, Mark, did you get a permit yet?


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Mark
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby Mark » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:14 am

No not yet, too many things to do which make it difficult to find a time to get 2 days in a row so I figure on doing it when the snow falls.
If I still lived in the city the priority would have been different obviously :)


"What if he had no knife? In that case he would not be a good bushman so there is no need to consider the possibility." H.A. Lindsay, 1947

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xl_target
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby xl_target » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:40 am

Does MO recognize the permit?
So if you go to St Louis, are you allowed to carry?


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Mark
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby Mark » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:18 am

It appears that most of the midwest will allow reciprocity, here is a cut and paste:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Wisconsin

I guess I'm going to have to break down and get a 9mm now. Those compact 45's look pretty tempting but I think I'll get another full size 45 first, and a compact 9 would carry a lot lighter than a 45 would.


"What if he had no knife? In that case he would not be a good bushman so there is no need to consider the possibility." H.A. Lindsay, 1947

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Hammerhead
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby Hammerhead » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:43 am

Great, when to show up at Mark's place !!!


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bennedose
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby bennedose » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:40 am

I don't understand what has been done. Could someone explain? Does this mean that it is illegal all over America to carry a conceled handgun and that any handguns must be carried out in the open?



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xl_target
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby xl_target » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:50 am

Mark wrote:I guess I'm going to have to break down and get a 9mm now. Those compact 45's look pretty tempting but I think I'll get another full size 45 first, and a compact 9 would carry a lot lighter than a 45 would.


Try out the Ruger LC9. It did take some getting used to but now I have been carrying it almost exclusively.
I've pretty much stopped carrying anything else as pocket carry with this pistol is so convenient.

I posted a review on the LC9
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20793


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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TC
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby TC » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:14 pm

Guys, this is why India is great. Here, nobody needs a permit to conceal --- be it a licensed .32 Ashani or an illegal 9 mm clone of the Beretta 92F that is a rage among criminals these days...

Just conceal and carry :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the post XL.

TC



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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby bennedose » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:30 pm

TC wrote:Guys, this is why India is great. Here, nobody needs a permit to conceal --- be it a licensed .32 Ashani or an illegal 9 mm clone of the Beretta 92F that is a rage among criminals these days...

Just conceal and carry :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the post XL.

TC

You seem to know about America and India. Would you be able to take a shot at my question?



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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby Vikram » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:45 pm

bennedose wrote:I don't understand what has been done. Could someone explain? Does this mean that it is illegal all over America to carry a conceled handgun and that any handguns must be carried out in the open?


Our American friends please correct me if I am wrong.

Re the OP, the state of Illinois was one of the last states to grant its citizens the permits for concealed carry.

To put it simply:

In the US, it's the states that define the manner of carrying firearms. A state can allow or disallow you to carry a firearm openly or in a concealed fashion. The permit is valid to the state which issued your permit. However, there are reciprocal agreements between some states which allow permit holders to carry their guns across different states.


Best-
Vikram


It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

bennedose
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby bennedose » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:19 pm

A millionaire Indian American friend of mine whose interest in guns started after he and I shot my Weihrauch air rifle together in the UK had mentioned that if he was ever pulled over by a cop when he was carrying a weapon he had to immediately pull out his permit and state up front that he has a concealed carry permit. I think he now owns a Tavor and an AK 47 ap[art from some other stuff. But I digress - this was some years ago.

What I understood of the news item above is
Illinois was the last state to ban citizens from carrying concealed pistols


To me that looks like no one in allowed to carry concealed weapons and everyone must carry handguns out in the open. I think that is a good law if I have understood it properly. I woud really like someone who is familiar with the US to clarify this. This sort of law would be a good start to make progress with RKBA in India - if ever



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Vikram
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby Vikram » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:44 pm

bennedose wrote:What I understood of the news item above is
Illinois was the last state to ban citizens from carrying concealed pistols


To me that looks like no one in allowed to carry concealed weapons and everyone must carry handguns out in the open. I think that is a good law if I have understood it properly. I woud really like someone who is familiar with the US to clarify this. This sort of law would be a good start to make progress with RKBA in India - if ever


No, concealed carry and open carry are two different issues and each is legitimised individually. A state may allow conceal carry but may not allow open carry or allow both. Depends on the state. Re Illinois, the new law actually allows concealed carry which was not allowed previously.

Why do you think conceal carry is not good? If you carry an open handgun, IMO, you will most likely get shot in the first should there ever be a shooting.


It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

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xl_target
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby xl_target » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:53 am

Vikram wrote:
bennedose wrote:What I understood of the news item above is
Illinois was the last state to ban citizens from carrying concealed pistols


To me that looks like no one in allowed to carry concealed weapons and everyone must carry handguns out in the open. I think that is a good law if I have understood it properly. I woud really like someone who is familiar with the US to clarify this. This sort of law would be a good start to make progress with RKBA in India - if ever


No, concealed carry and open carry are two different issues and each is legitimised individually. A state may allow conceal carry but may not allow open carry or allow both. Depends on the state. Re Illinois, the new law actually allows concealed carry which was not allowed previously.

Why do you think conceal carry is not good? If you carry an open handgun, IMO, you will most likely get shot in the first should there ever be a shooting.


Vikram wrote:
bennedose wrote:I don't understand what has been done. Could someone explain? Does this mean that it is illegal all over America to carry a conceled handgun and that any handguns must be carried out in the open?


Our American friends please correct me if I am wrong.

Re the OP, the state of Illinois was one of the last states to grant its citizens the permits for concealed carry.

To put it simply:

In the US, it's the states that define the manner of carrying firearms. A state can allow or disallow you to carry a firearm openly or in a concealed fashion. The permit is valid to the state which issued your permit. However, there are reciprocal agreements between some states which allow permit holders to carry their guns across different states.


Best-
Vikram


We won’t get into discussing politics or beliefs here. I’ll just try to state facts.
While the second amendment allows you to possess firearms; today, it is not seen by the govt. as giving you the right to carry them about in public. Actually there isn’t anything specifically prohibiting it in Federal law (apart from certain specific Federal properties). Certain classes of people, especially anyone who has been convicted of a Felony are not allowed to possess firearms (That is also Federal law).

However, many municipalities created their own ordinances outlawing public carry of firearms in public. To prove that they weren’t prohibiting weapons possession, they then required you to get a permit to carry a firearm. In some states like Illinois, you had to get a permit just o possess them. They assigned the job of issuing said permits to local law enforcement authorities. This was called “may issue” as you were dependent on the whims or moods of the issuer. Most city police chiefs in the USA are appointed by a mayor or the City Council in their towns. Consequently they have no requirement or desire to please anyone else. A large number of them were just political appointees and the only way you could get a permit was if you were a crony too or had political influence.

In response to their constituents creating a hue and cry about this state of affairs, many State legislators started passing laws specifically permitting the carry of firearms for protection. These states issued permit to carry cards or “Concealed Carry Licenses” to people who had clean backgrounds. Possession of one of these cards meant that the Police couldn’t do anything if you were found to be in public with a firearm in your possession. Many of these States clearly said that unless you had certain specific conditions disqualifying you, you had to be issued a permit. This was called “shall issue”. There are still some may issue states out there but the large majority have gone to shall issue.
Since these efforts were done by individual states, they tended to all be a little different. In most cases, the State took away the right to issue from police chiefs and gave them to Sheriffs (who are elected). Some states also put some penalties (teeth) in their bills with specific remedies if the issuing authorities proved recalcitrant. Many state also put in specific deadlines on how soon the permit must be issued after the application is received.
For example, in Minnesota, the Sheriff in the county that you live in must issue the permit in 30 days or provide in writing why he is denying the permit. If you feel he has wrongly denied you, you may take him to court. If you win, and many have, all court costs are assessed to the Sheriff’s Department. Pretty soon even the most obstreperous Sheriff’s started toeing the line. The Sheriff in my county is very service oriented and issues permits practically the next day.

As far as the Open Carry-Concealed Carry debate is concerned, I would appreciate if we not discuss the pros and cons of that here. Some states allow it and some don’t. Before permitted carry, it was legal in MN to open carry on your private property and ” in the woods and fields of the land” but many municipalities had ordinance against it. Carrying concealed required a permit and carrying concealed without a permit often would be viewed as evidence of criminal intent by many cops. However, it was impossible to get a permit unless you were connected. Once MN went “shall issue” and issued permits, the law was written so the permit was a “permit to carry a pistol”. It does not specify open carry or concealed carry and both are legal. In some states like Texas, open carry is not allowed. In fact if you are concealing and your coat blows up to expose your firearm, you could be in trouble. Some states, like Arizona and Alaska, have “constitutional carry” where no permits are required to carry openly or concealed.
So the answer to your question:
bennedose wrote:I don't understand what has been done. Could someone explain? Does this mean that it is illegal all over America to carry a conceled handgun and that any handguns must be carried out in the open?

Is that in some places you could and in some places you couldn’t.

In Illinois, however, there was no legal way to carry a handgun with you unless you were at the range, on private property or were one of “the chosen few” who were given a permit. The courts forced Illinois to create a permit system with the threat that if they did not, the court would create one.
Otherwise everything that Vikram says is true.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

bennedose
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Re: The last state in the USA just passed a concealed carry

Postby bennedose » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:15 am

xl_target wrote:
In Illinois, however, there was no legal way to carry a handgun with you unless you were at the range, on private property or were one of “the chosen few” who were given a permit. The courts forced Illinois to create a permit system with the threat that if they did not, the court would create one.
Otherwise everything that Vikram says is true.

Thanks for taking the trouble to make a detailed response.

In Illinois, how would one carry a gun from home to shooting range? Would a shopping stopover en route be illegal?




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