Mumbai under attack

[lazybones]

"Jackass" officially added

Ashok

[TenX]

...wish there was a rule that only sensible people were allowed to stand for elections....

.. and sensible voters too

[OverUnderPump]

The terrorists had access to television sets and could easily know the positions n rank importance of our soldiers and made 'em easy targets. This took away the element of surprize attack in this mission and the terrorists knew who was coming from where.

Those were the exact thoughts that crossed my mind, the moment I heard about the deaths of those top shots. I don't think a media blank out would be possible/feasible though. I would rather opt for a delayed telecast (10 mins at-least) so that general people are kept in the loop and our forces also get ample time to make their moves and keep the surprise advantage. Heck if we can watch cricket matches with a 15-20 min delayed feed, we sure as hell can watch things like these 'delayed' in National Interest.

And the less we say about the journo's and correspondents.. the better.The glaring lack of awareness in several aspects and the stupid speculative remarks just raised the ambient temperature of my blood.

The only folks who deserve respect are the ones who fought for us. My heart goes out to all the people (civilians and service-men) who lost their lives to these shameless rats.

regards

OUP

[R-Dhillon]

You know, something struck my mind that even we people will talk about this for some time and then forget it, cant we do something to stop the media from panicking the whole nation, sending jitters all over and causing danger to the operation and the soldiers involved.
I remember that at one point of time in this operation, the media was refused some bytes and that Arnab jackass started preaching democracy saying that since the media was denied some piece of info, so it's a black day in democratic history...What an idiot?...
Regards,
R.Dhillon.

[ashkalra]

The way NSG did their job at the Nariman house was surely messed-up as in the end all the hostages were killed and if that was supposed to be the end result, then they should have simply entered the house complex immediately without waiting for hours. Also, a commando operation should be more covert, not this way by bringing in a helicopter and making sure that the terrorists are alerted and also know the direction you are coming from. It is no doubt that Israel declared this operation as blotched and a premature operation. The govt. should have allowed Israeli assistance at-least in this Nariman house operation as they have a lot more experience in handling these situations, as the entebbe and other sucessful Israeli commando operations have shown.

[marksman]

Friends,Please let me inform you people that most of the hostages were already dead by the time the NSG arrived. The main goal of the NSG was to get some terrorists alive for obvious reasons. Hence the delay in their operation. How ever the only terrorist we managed to capture alive was the one that police caught at Girgaon Chaupati at the initiation stage of their attack, which again was a sheer stroke of luck. At times like this, its the media that acts most irresponsible and stupid and should have been blacked out till the operation Toronado came to an end. As for Nariman House inmates, they were kept alive as a last insurance by the terrorists to gain maximum footage on the channels. We would have certainly defeated this purpose of theirs by not showing the carnage to the world thru the idiot boxes which was part of their strategy. This has served two purposes for them a)The world saw their deternination and so called martyrdome and b)The world also saw how ignorant and naive we are at handling these situations. India TV is a hands down winner and takes the crown in TRP motivated yarns.

Marksman

[TenX]

As far as I know, most operations may well have a Plan 'B' - another team which is yet at large...

Sometimes, those in Plan 'A' may not be aware of those in 'B' ... Hope not, but there probably could be another 'raft'ed group somewhere...

And I totally agree to the show of Ignorance that media and authorities displayed... With due respect to those lost brave lives and the entire force that became the compound from bullets for us, this incident calls for more measures in equipping and training our forces to handle such situations. ... And media should seriously think of encouraging the right kind of awareness and education within their own team. If a sports reporter does not know the game, there is no value in his/her gibberish, and that is the proper analogy for the utter display of ignorance the media crew exhibited!

[ai]

Sad news- one of my new trainee's parents have both been killed in this attack. What can I say? I wish there were only those politicians in there- the ones responsible for allowing the terrorists to exist, and then not have an effective force to prevent their acts.

[marksman]

strangely,out of hundreds of resident politicians of Mumbai, not a single one happened to be dining in either of the two Hotels that particular night. Marksman

[cottage cheese]

The sad thing in this whole thing is the country's best doesn't get the best. The men and officers may be good but the system is, as I believe, a serious impediment.

Giving them the latest firearms is just a part of the whole thing...and should not be considered an end.

They still aren't issued very good gear. Body Armor may be ok, perhaps even those odd Darth Vader helmets that were more shinier than his ,but to milk maximum mileage of a troopers performance all aspects should be taken care of- quality uniforms, boots, knee/elbow pads, hands free comm, comfortable inner wear etc.

Other than explosives they need alternate breeching/entry equipment. They had Lugi Franchi SPAS-12's back in the 90's - supposedly for lock breaking. No ballistic shields for protection while effecting entry- Shields came in (almost as an after thought) towards the end of the Taj operation. Optics would help as well- red dots have been around for a while didn't see a single NSG weapon equipped with one. They simplify the task of aiming in stressful circumstances immensely.

NVG is still a novelty in most Indian agencies.

Even things like endoscopes will aid in reducing the risk to the intervention and hostage parties.

The list goes on and on...

Even the training- while certainly rigorous and fairly advanced, is still somewhat crude and almost improvised and shoe-stringy.

Noticed how stingy we were with helicopters? a couple of navy chetaks were circling around only because they happened to be based nearby. The Mi-8/17 looked like Air Force choppers. Why not dedicated aerial assets. No need to mention the pathetic city-buses that were used to transport the poor troopers.

The establishment needs to be more adventurous in running and providing for Indias best.

OK, I know someone might say all this costs a lot of money and so on- but aren't they supposed to be the nations best? Money should not be a consideration when dealing with the business of life and death. In any case it's not the whole army or police that we are talking of- just a small core of the nations best. That definitely won't bankrupt the country. But hey, if you remember, its the babus who control this as well so don't wait for surprises

[Mark]

Sad news- one of my new trainee's parents have both been killed in this attack. What can I say? I wish there were only those politicians in there- the ones responsible for allowing the terrorists to exist, and then not have an effective force to prevent their acts.

ai that is truly horrible news! Please offer my condolences when you see your trainee next.

[TenX]

The sad thing in this whole thing is the country's best doesn't get the best. The men and officers may be good but the system is, as I believe, a serious impediment.

Giving them the latest firearms is just a part of the whole thing...and should not be considered an end.

They still aren't issued very good gear. Body Armor may be ok, perhaps even those odd Darth Vader helmets that were more shinier than his ,but to milk maximum mileage of a troopers performance all aspects should be taken care of- quality uniforms, boots, knee/elbow pads, hands free comm, comfortable inner wear etc.

Other than explosives they need alternate breeching/entry equipment. They had Lugi Franchi SPAS-12's back in the 90's - supposedly for lock breaking. No ballistic shields for protection while effecting entry- Shields came in (almost as an after thought) towards the end of the Taj operation. Optics would help as well- red dots have been around for a while didn't see a single NSG weapon equipped with one. They simplify the task of aiming in stressful circumstances immensely.

NVG is still a novelty in most Indian agencies.

Even things like endoscopes will aid in reducing the risk to the intervention and hostage parties.

The list goes on and on...

Even the training- while certainly rigorous and fairly advanced, is still somewhat crude and almost improvised and shoe-stringy.

Noticed how stingy we were with helicopters? a couple of navy chetaks were circling around only because they happened to be based nearby. The Mi-8/17 looked like Air Force choppers. Why not dedicated aerial assets. No need to mention the pathetic city-buses that were used to transport the poor troopers.

The establishment needs to be more adventurous in running and providing for Indias best.

OK, I know someone might say all this costs a lot of money and so on- but aren't they supposed to be the nations best? Money should not be a consideration when dealing with the business of life and death. In any case it's not the whole army or police that we are talking of- just a small core of the nations best. That definitely won't bankrupt the country. But hey, if you remember, its the babus who control this as well so don't wait for surprises

CC.. Every word of yours needs to be read twice...
I agree to it all. But, as an after thought, and since you also did mention that none of the ministers were anywhere around the 5 star hotels, maybe all this was a plot to get rid of some people ... Yeah, its a wild wild thought, but the games politics play, one never knows

[ai]

The men and officers may be good but the system is, as I believe, a serious impediment.

The list goes on and on...

The list- IMO- it should start with robots that can enter buildings and rooms, reducing or delaying the need for humans to expose themselves.

Training? The less said the better!

The 3 prominent police officers that died- it is sad. It was brave of them to do what they did, but better training would have enabled them to react differently, avoid getting hit, and possibly restrain the terrorists. Evidently, they reacted as if this was an encounter with the usual criminals/underworld whereas they were up against trained terrorists. Training would have enabled them to differentiate.

We are a long long way from containing terrorism.

[ashkalra]

Another strange thing which i read in today's newspaper about NSG equipment is that they are supposed to be equipped with night-vision devices, and then i read an article in the same paper about their waiting for a daybreak before launching a final assault on two remaining terrorists at Taj.

Isn't this strange that they have night-vision devices and they still wait till first light at daybreak to move in for the kill ?

Though i am not an expert, but i though that NVDs are supposed to assist such commando operations at night, there is still a lot of advanced technology adaptation & deployment required for NSG to become more effective & compare themselves with SAS ( supposedly the group they are modelled on ).

[ebenezer]

I certainly agree that the role played by the media was irritating. But the reporter can't be blamed always. The newsroom wants to keep readers hooked on and they ensure that the reporter keeps muttering something before the camera by posing stupid questions to him/her on the pretext of asking for updates. Usually, what happens in a situation like this is that the security forces put out wrong information about the operation (the strategy) through the media to misguide the terrorists holed up inside. Taking their word, both the media as well as terrorists focus on the 'wrong' side. This makes work easy for the security guys --- silencing the media and misguiding terrorists. But, in this case, I don't think this was followed.

Ebenezer