Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
tingriman
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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by tingriman » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:26 pm

eternalme wrote:If somehow we can release it on 26th jan , few newspapapers etc ,

Dear members,

I don't know how easy it will be at the time when press briefings regarding security scenerio and govt advertisement announcing different development schemes are the prime focus of media. My recent experience with two local newspapers has been without success, at least as far so long. The editiors may or may not either be pro-gun or did not want to experiment with the subject, some close proximity with editor/media men is required for getting the job done. I may suggest, we may try to get it published irrespective of any particular newspaper, magazine, local or national doesnot matters, all the people dont read national also true is the converse of it and most importantly at whichever date it is possible. Looking for any particular date may be just a waste of time, atleast in my opinion. . We also have one nicely written article by Vikram, and if need be working collectively, matter on the subject won't be much of a problem. The only thing that needs to be taken care of is that IT Should Not Backfire.
Syedah Ayesha wrote:however, the people close to politicians especially of X party keep harassing.
these political people are bullies and all bullies are cowards. They do not harass anyone with a gun.
Please amend the Guns act and allow people to rotect their life and dignity.
Hi Syedah,

Welcome to IFG, if you have already, read the posts of rest of the IFGians, you may be by now aware that people are working in the positive direction, but mass support is need of the hour, as a vast majority of people of our country don't have rational positive thinking as far as the legal gun ownership goes. Spreading the right information, educating people about the gun safety, and propagating for the legal and right full ownership of guns is some of the important things our friends are discussion and try to do here.
As far as bullies, gun may not be a solution and it is not a solution for all the social problem that we face in our day to day life.Dont take otherwise, but I am trying to put my opinion here. There are other ways to work around the solutions. Display or use of weapon has legalities associated with it and leads to the serious consequencies afterward. Before acquiring a license or a weapon, training in handling, saftey procedures and good knowledge of basic self defense techniques is equally important. Change does not comes abruptly, it takes time and efforts. Apply for the license, and pursue it, I can hope you all the best.

Cheers,
tingriman
Last edited by tingriman on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dobhal87
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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by dobhal87 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:27 pm

kudos syedah !!

welcome to the club !!

-- Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:36 pm --

i got this article by gabe suarez...nice to read

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =237368021

.....
Freedom :)

shadow
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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by shadow » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:31 pm

Hi Comrades,
Apologies for waking up late!Had got sucked into vacuum called life. But as they say better late than never, i did rise from my armchair & since past 20 minutes trying 2b a man from a mere boy. But no matter how hard am trying 2 join the tribe, the process is failing me. I entered all the personal details nearly 12 times on the grievance page and everytime it goes back to the home page. Can someone please help this boy grow up please? Oh and yeah, I have got rid of diapers too as my playschool has taught me toilet mannerism. Cheers!

-- Mon Dec 21, 2009 15:57 --

Dear comrades,
Am making some progress. Have typed out a whole paragraph without any mishappenings. Please pray that I submit my grievance.
I do not have a firearm licence but that is my grievance. After reading so much about red tapism, babugiri etc. I did not have the patience to really get involved in the tedious process. However I did join MRA & did a crash course on pistol shooting. Maybe if I had to confront a goon or terrorist, I may snatch his firearm & pull the trigger to ensure safety of people around me or myself. I know that only because of people like me RKBA has not gained momentum in a country with a population of 1.2 billion living in constant threat of Naxalites, Maoists, Jihadis etc. I am wailing & crying that how inefficient the systems in this country are and to my disadvantage doing nothing about it. I was very aggressive initially when I had joined this forum and hell-bent on getting myself a licence. But soon it all fizzled down as job became demanding, plus more discouraging was the fact that even after getting a licence after spending days, weeks & maybe years, will I actually be able to afford a firearm which will work when it has to?!? However, today I decided to open this site after a long gap to see what was the current state of affairs and came across this thread. It has reinstated that same aggression in me to get my fundamental right as a law-abiding citizen of this country! Cheers fellowmen (women too) and my support always!

-- Mon Dec 21, 2009 16:40 --

Wow! I just did it - finally...Here is how it goes...Please forgive me if I have been wrong in whatever I have mentioned below, but as eternalme had mentioned earlier, I just wrote what came from my heart! And yes, I was not allowed to question the government. :D

I am a law-abiding citizen of India. The grievance does not question the efficiency or effectiveness of the law of country. But it addresses a basic need that we as citizens are deprived of - the need to defend our families, friends & our ownselves from forces that are not necessarily being governed by any government. Is it a sin to be law-abiding citizen in this country. It definitely seems so, if not we would not have been kept away from our basic need or if I may call it a fundamental right of a democratic country. Why is it so difficult for an individual with valid residence proof, PAN card and no criminal background whatsoever to possess a firearm for self-defence while groups with none of the above scout free in the country and spray bullets as per their whims & fancies. When the law clearly states that a firearm can be granted to citizens who have necessary documents & no criminal background, why are we still left at the mercy of mood-swings of the particular authorities to decide whether to or not to grant us licence based on their interpretation of the law.
It is a complete misconception that by granting firearm licences there will be bloodbath in the country. On the contrary the GoI will be empowering its citizens to keep anti-social elements at bay. The community which holds valid firearms licence in the country, though small, is the most responsible community who understands the nuances of gun-safety and proper usage. How many killings in India have been reported with licenced firearms vis-a-vis that of illegal firearms. The numbers are almost non-existent and that explains it all.
I am not urging the Ministry to announce freearms policy, but simply to make the process of licensing simple, very objective including clauses that the licence holder gets formal training in gun-handling & safety from government-appointed agencies/organisations. These citizens instead of being a threat, would come to the rescue when the country is in distress.
I would like to conclude my grievance with all due respects, that when people who were amongst us and were chosen by us and their families and relatives are given all security of various categories, why we who are equally important in a democracy as citizens, not given right to possess a single firearm. We who empower them live as victims while they who if removed from the seat will be as common as we are, live in forts with armies protecting them. Does that mean our lives are not as important as theirs. Each of us has a natural right, from god,to defend his person,his liberty and his property.
"Tourists are terrorists with cameras. Terrorists are tourists with guns.”

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by ravi.sharma » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:43 pm

Hi Shadow,

Thats very well written, straight to the point.Image

:cheers:
Ravi
Believing Everybody is Dangerous; Believing Nobody is Very Dangerous..........

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by hvj1 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:39 pm

Updated List ROLL OF HONOR
List of MEN,(in order of posting)- MAY YOUR TRIBE INCREASE, who have posted grievances on behalf of the boys (MAY YOUR TRIBE DECREASE),
1.Eternalme
2.hvj1
3.mik
4.Zake
5.Mack the knife
6.joydeepm
7.Indiaone
8.Ravi Sharma
9.Kanwar76
10.Dobhal87
11.Nagarifle
12.Surface to Air Missile
13.Moa
14.Goodboy_mentor (confirmation pending)
15.Tingriman
16.Mayuri (Confirmation pending)
17.Shah
18.Lionheartguru
19.Kdbanan
20. Shadow
Congratulations Shadow! join the club of the movers and the shakers. May our TRIBE continue to increase.
BR

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by dobhal87 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:51 pm

20 !! good going folks....

Hey shadow !! good job buddy
Freedom :)

shadow
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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by shadow » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:17 am

Thanks Ravi, BR & Dobhal...My support always!
"Tourists are terrorists with cameras. Terrorists are tourists with guns.”

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by farhan.lateefi » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:01 am

did my bit and it feels good...

Your Grievance is Successfully Registered. Note your

Registration No. MINHA/...........

for future reference.
''The great object is, that every man be armed.... Every one who is able may have a gun."

Patrick Henry

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by Amit357 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:35 pm

Hi guys if you can somehow manage to get some link to THE HOME MINISTERs email id,he is the Man and lets just say we are lucky that he is a well read man,honest and wants to do something for the country.If we can convice him am sure he will do the needful.The lower babudom is noy gonna let him even look at these mail,so lets try to get to him :cheers:

tingriman
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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by tingriman » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:41 pm

Amit357 wrote:Hi guys if you can somehow manage to get some link to THE HOME MINISTERs email id,he is the Man and lets just say we are lucky that he is a well read man,honest and wants to do something for the country.If we can convice him am sure he will do the needful.The lower babudom is noy gonna let him even look at these mail,so lets try to get to him :cheers:
Are you talking about the one, who advocated ban on pre-paid mobiles in J&K recently instead of coming up with some better plan to tackle the existing problem??? :evil:

cheers,
tingriman

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by lionheartguru » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:21 pm

i dont agree to the ministers mailing wala post...

-- Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:42 pm --

guys

we need more articles on this...
this is not sufficient...
more is required...

united we stand , divided we fall..
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by dobhal87 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:44 pm

:agree: guru

waisey bhi ..ministers are not the policy makers...they are just the "Anchors" of this Democratic Drama....real game is played by the bureaucrats....
Freedom :)

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by lionheartguru » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:53 pm

right

however i think we all agreed on publishing an article ...
i need some more material for the same....

regards
guru
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

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new article for print

Post by lionheartguru » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:05 pm

guys

i have added and edited somethign to tingreman's article ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part I -- Realizing and correcting our mistakes...

After putting an end to mutiny of 1857, British viceroy Lord Lytton (1874 -1880), brought into existence the Indian Arms Act, 1878(11 of 1878); an act which, exempted Europeans and ensured that no Indian could possess a weapon of any description unless the British masters considered him a "LOYAL" subject of the British Empire. Father of Nation M.K.Gandhi referring to Arms Act of 1878 remarked "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest"(page 238,My Experiment with Truth, M K Gandhi).India won her independence in 1947, but our Government still took 12 years to formulate the new Arms Act.1959 which was further supplemented by Arms Act Rules of 1962.Although a little better than Arms Act of 1878,unfortunately,the new Arms Act of 1962 did not show any sign of Government of Independent India trusting its Citizens. While the new legislation gave vast arbitrary powers to the "Licensing Authorities”, to ensure that procurement of Arms License remains a distant fruit for citizens where as the concept of Prohibited and Non-Prohibited bore/calibers remained intact. This concept was used by the British to ensure that the military supply of Ammunition does not find its way to Indians especially freedom fighters as they did not trust Indians who formed major percentage of serving personnel in their Army and Law Enforcement Units. The Pakistani Government however, did wave this colonial idea afterwards. All the calibers which are/were used by Military/Law Enforcement Units of our country were kept out of reach and civilians were left to settle for less effective or better to say useless calibers like .32 ACP,.25 ACP,22 LR etc.,while the minimum caliber advocated worldwide for self defense purpose is 9 mm P/9x19 mm.Although some belonging to old thoughts may recommend .380 ACP/ 9 mm short/9x17 mm as qualifying round for SD purpose, but the statistics of actual street fight show that this caliber (.380 ACP aka 9 mm short) does not have enough power to qualify as serious Self Defense round. The new Arms Act is also no good for Indian Arms manufacturing Industry. Limits on quantity and quality of Arms manufactured/produced was imposed and addition to that a complete ban on importing of machinery required for production of quality Arms left the Indian Arms Industry limbless. This killed the spirit of competition and left industry to produce only very low quality handguns/rifles with unjustified higher price tags which never found their place in international market where as country as small as one district of India are dominating the world market and earning huge foreign revenue. Later on things became worse when in 1980, Government turning a blind eye to the fact that militants/terrorists/separatist element never used licensed fire-arms in committing crimes, but citing the internal disturbances and insurgency as the reason, completely banned the import of Arms and Ammunition of any kind for the civilian market. The Indian Ordinance Factory (IOF) -a public sector enterprise is the only one which produces any weapons meant for civilians market although its priority remains supply for Military and Law Enforcement Units. The civilian versions of their weapons are sub-standard, highly over priced and below the benchmarks to qualify for self defense or target practice.

Now the question arises, what did independence change with respect to Indian Arms Act? The obvious answer is nothing! Is this the situation The Father of Nation and other freedom fighters had dreamed of in their independent country?

Many may say, ‘what difference will possessing arms make?'.The right answer to this question could be perfectly answered by ones logical mind. On 26/11, even if 10% of the crowd at Taj Hotel bared arms, there wouldn’t have been a human slaughter !The simple reason being at least 50% of the 10% arms owner would have had the guts to shoot-down the terrorist. It has been one complete year for 26/11 event and still our Indian Government are busy requesting quotations from foreign arms manufacturers. Strange! Not surprising though, only because if the government and its Ministers had a little concern about their responsibilities towards their Nation, India might never have had such a terrifying attack in the first place. Now , other notable concern for all the Indian citizens .We are all aware of Michael Phelps of US winning 9 gold medals in the Olympics , however We never had the time to think as of Why does India have only a few gold medalist ? Abhinav Bindra, due to his devotion and dedication towards the shooting sport, won a gold medal in Olympics, irrespective of the problems he might have faced. Although we have a few "well-known" shooters in India (on state/national level) only a few make it to the Internationals. Why? The reason being stringent gun laws. Today, if a professional shooter is to import a "air-gun" , he/she has go through the whole officials hierarchy just to acquire the permission ! Believe it or not, Indian made "air-guns" are good for level 0-1 only, ammunition and shooting range charges excluded. If one decides to take the shooting sport professionally, he/she has to think it twice (from money/time aspect).

Coming back to 26/11 related concern of India; we have the Naxals/Ulfa/Maoist issue pending since long. It has been reported through the media multiple times, that the people living the above affected regions have to posses illegal arms, which they can acquire very easily to defend themselves. If, in the first place had India have had tangible gun laws , these people might have never thought of possessing illegal arms cause they face dangers from these groups and the police as well. As we have read above that we have "Licensing Authorities" which usually take around a year or more to issue a arms license, these people are left with no option than to purchase arms from the illegal market .Only if today, India had a "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" for her citizens, would had these extremist group thought twice before harming an innocent. CAFI is the only organization in India which is against RKBA. Agreeing on their views would not be wrong, but agreeing on their "no-initiative" to stop illegal arms trade would be wrong. Has ever the CAFI never thought about MLA's and MP's having highly sophisticated weapons guards around them? It has always been talked about guns affecting the crime rate of a country, but never ever has it been thought, to take an effective action on illegal arms trade, which in turn will reduce the crime rate itself. A fact never known to the law abiding common man, is that, these criminals posses pistols/revolvers which are as sophisticated as a .44magnum, whose one bullet is sufficient to take down an 85kg healthy man. Whereas our Indian police use the same old Service Revolvers/Pistols, which malfunction when they are needed the most! It has been brought to light may times by the media that some of the PSI's guns couldn't respond well during the 26/11 event. Probably that is the reason Indian government has to import handguns. Little was the government concerned about the protection of aam adami , would there have had been taken serious measures to prevent the happening of such event , cause if filed an RTI about the measures taken by the State Government, would one know how concerned and serious is The Government about the protection of their Tax Payers. The legal fire-arms owner are not at all responsible for free flow/trade of illegal fire-arms in the country. Remember, the anti-social elements are still getting their supply without any difficulties beside stringent gun laws. Worst the citizens are at the mercy of criminals/terrorists.

Legally armed citizen, in fact can help government to curb the crime and fight militancy. There have been many instances in country where citizens snatched weapons from criminals/terrorists and foiled their designs thus preventing loss of life and property. In one such incident, reported from Jammu and Kashmir, a girl not only killed one militant commander but also scared others to run for their life without doing any harm to her family. These results can be optimized by helping these citizens getting armed with adequate knowledge and arms as they have full right to protect their life and property, after all they are law abiding citizens of this country.


Let the government know that we want your tax count, let them know that you want your blood count, let the government know how we feel about the present arms law and act which doesn't give merit to law abiding, taxpaying citizens, let the government know that if guns are not required than why there are more than a dozen guns required around MLA, MPS and others. Let the government answer if the life of a normal "Janta" person is not worth protecting as much as is of a MLA or MP, let the government know that how this biased policy about arms ownership has created a big rift between a law abiding citizen and guns. Let them answer how stopping import of the firearms has helped them gain revenues or help the domestic industry, which anyway doesn't exist in hand guns and rifle segment as the government doesn't grant such permission, who the government is supporting by such practices ? The government has actually taken the firearms away from the citizens. Can someone who earns 1.5 Lakh a year own a gun even made by IOF? That means more than 90% of the Indian population can't even have a gun which government gets made, isn’t their life worth protecting? Don’t they have a right to self defend themselves in areas where police takes hours to reach? And who is profited in the second hand arms sale? Where guns worth a thousand or five max sell for 2 to 3 lakh, isn't this an eye opener for the government loosing revenue like this?

The national portal of the government of India has online complaint redress system "http://grievance.nic.in/Netizen/arpgn.asp" which gives you multiple errors while addressing your complaint/grievance. This is the era we live in ! The government shows the Common Man with fake empathy!
________________________________________

Re-edited and Completed by:
lion-heart guru

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hope you guys comment since i think i am on the last step to get this published
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

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Re: Raise your voice for RKBA: Tell the government online

Post by arshad_ahmad48 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:51 pm

How should one become the member of RKBA
In business, being the first doesn't mean anything. Getting it right is the recipe that defines everything.

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