Indians For Guns

Hi everyone.
My name is Kanwar K.S Pathania form Himachal Pradesh. Indeed i was very much excited to join this forum which is a Wikipedia to have answeres for all types of queries related to fire arms. I had my arms licence in the year 2006 and my father is also having a arms licence. Presently i am possessing one DBBL(Visco Special Mandi) and one IOF .32 bore revolver. I cant discuss much about hunting and all as it may be not permitted in this forum. I had a great collection of imported vintage cartridges 12 bore(including the original and genuine IOF Cartridges) given to me by my father as he was serving in the Army and had chance to collect the same.
Recently my father had sold his SBBL (Popular Gun factory) and I have purchased for him a bolt action 12 Bore SBBL which can hold two cartridges . The gun i purchased for him was previously owned by an army person given to him by his father who too served in Army. It is a German made(Remo Popular) probably manufactured somewhere around WWI or WWII. The condition of the gun is excellent it has a serial number and all required proof marking on it. My question is that it can hold in its camber and magazine all the IOF cartridges 2 3/4 or so. But above that length it cant. So my question is, whether it is safe to fire the cartridges like shaktiman(4. etc having heavy pay load. Although they can easily fit in its magazine.


Rgs.

Kanwar

Welcome aboard.

Prabhath wrote:Welcome aboard.

Thanks buddy..I hope someone will have answer to my query

Length of shotgun shells is measured when "open" i.e. once they have been fired.

For e.g. a roll crimp shell of 65mm and a star crimp shell of 70mm may have the same/ similar length while unfired BUT once they are fired their "opened up" case length will be different (in this case 65 and 70mm respectively).

Therefore, while unfired 70mm shells may very well chamber (i.e. "fit in") a 65mm chamber, once they are fired their fully open length will exceed the chamber dimensions and go into the forcing cone part of the barrel. This will inevitably cause a spike in pressure, which can be dangerous, especially in old guns/ poorly manufactured guns. At the very least, such a practice would weaken the gun/ loosen the action if repeated often.

If the variation in dimension of the shell vis a vis the chamber is even greater, say:-

1. a 70mm (2 3/4") shell fired in a 60mm (2") chamber
or
2. a 76mm (3") shell in a 65mm (2.5") chamber;

the likelihood of a dangerous outcome is almost certain.

ALWAYS stick to the type of ammunition your firearm has been designed for!

The chamber dimensions would almost certainly be marked on the gun. Since it is a German make, it will likely be marked something like 12/70, the former being the bore/ gauge and the latter number the chamber length in mm.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

P.S. - AFAIK only 65mm and 70mm ammunition is currently manufactured in India. Shaktiman, while I haven't used it in over 20 years, IIRC makes 70mm ammo only. IOF (KF brand) manufactures both types. Most imported ammunition available in India these days is 70mm, though one does occasionally come across 65mm and 76mm imported ammo and (very rarely, mostly old ammo) 60mm.

Jai Dev, welcome to the Forum Mr. Pathania. You will find all answers from our experienced members.

Mr. Abhijeet, you explained very well and in a very simple language.

Regards
Vikramaditya.

mundaire wrote:Length of shotgun shells is measured when "open" i.e. once they have been fired.

For e.g. a roll crimp shell of 65mm and a star crimp shell of 70mm may have the same/ similar length while unfired BUT once they are fired their "opened up" case length will be different (in this case 65 and 70mm respectively).

Therefore, while unfired 70mm shells may very well chamber (i.e. "fit in") a 65mm chamber, once they are fired their fully open length will exceed the chamber dimensions and go into the forcing cone part of the barrel. This will inevitably cause a spike in pressure, which can be dangerous, especially in old guns/ poorly manufactured guns. At the very least, such a practice would weaken the gun/ loosen the action if repeated often.

If the variation in dimension of the shell vis a vis the chamber is even greater, say:-

1. a 70mm (2 3/4") shell fired in a 60mm (2") chamber
or
2. a 76mm (3") shell in a 65mm (2.5") chamber;

the likelihood of a dangerous outcome is almost certain.

ALWAYS stick to the type of ammunition your firearm has been designed for!

The chamber dimensions would almost certainly be marked on the gun. Since it is a German make, it will likely be marked something like 12/70, the former being the bore/ gauge and the latter number the chamber length in mm.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

P.S. - AFAIK only 65mm and 70mm ammunition is currently manufactured in India. Shaktiman, while I haven't used it in over 20 years, IIRC makes 70mm ammo only. IOF (KF brand) manufactures both types. Most imported ammunition available in India these days is 70mm, though one does occasionally come across 65mm and 76mm imported ammo and (very rarely, mostly old ammo) 60mm.

Thanks abhijeet for the reply. I will check all the details marked on the gun and will let u know. And if possible will post a pic also of the gun so that any remaining doubts can be cleared as safety comes first.
n Rgs

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:Jai Dev, welcome to the Forum Mr. Pathania. You will find all answers from our experienced members.

Mr. Abhijeet, you explained very well and in a very simple language.

Regards
Vikramaditya.

Jai Dev
Thanks for the welcome Mr. vikrmaditya. Where are u from?
i hope we will be in touch and will share our experiences .
I have been using my fathers gun since i was in 10th and thereafter applied for my own gun licence in 2006. But since a bolt action weapon is new for me so i am just little bit skeptical about it. The person from whom i bought the gun also gave me some shells of Eley and sellier bellot and they are equal in size as of IOF special.
Anyways i am happy to have that gun for my father and will ensure about what Mr. Abhijeet wrote.
Rgs
Kanwar

Pathania sahib, I am from Jammu. Sure, we will be in touch. Where are you from in HP?

Regards

Hello Kanwarji welcome. I am very interested in what you can't discuss in forum as I usually go to the USA for it. Please pm your contact and I can call you when in Delhi.
Thanks