bobbysidhu wrote:Dear Peter,
whatever you have said is all known to most of the folks here,so i was not really impressed with what you have just mentioned here ,this i believe is already been discussed on the forum eversince it started so please be little calm and just control your temper!
now coming to your queries here it goes:
well Bobby, this is very calm from my side and you have not even seen my temper yet, very few things can rock my boat, but lousy gunmakers and stupid gunsmiths will do it every time.
1.
As you are already aware of the situation,serious to me is a situation on these revolvers when some component specially the barrel or the cylinder just blowing apart or the gun opened up while firing and putting the life of the shooter or the by standers in trouble,REMEMBER GOOD FELLA the problem with this gun is that its not firing on some of the chambers at all !so no potential threat as of now!.I have seen this situation on Webleys frequently and rarely on S&Ws,colts.
first i dont think you and i are aquinted enough for you to call me FELLA, so please refrain from doing that in the future. Second inyour world you only consider it serius if the product have a catastrofic failure and kills or maims the shooter, i am sure that your costumors will be sleeping better knowing that their guns failing them is not serius unless they get hurt or die
2.
My dear if you are interested why don't you come down to INDIA and gather all the beautiful ERMA and Arminius revolvers ,that according to you are outperformers!we in INDIA are authorised to buy or shoot 25 cartridger annually as per our governing laws and majority of the people here don't even consume that, People owing such revolvers find these guns coming loose with broken top straps and buldged breech face after firing couple of hundred shots, and most of your outperformers never even lasted more than 750 if we calculate (30years X25)shots and gave up!.
bobby boy since you are apparently trying goad me into trash talk, instead of debating this out on a proffesionel level, i will try to elevate you into a higher level of this debate, i never discussed the quality of the armenius revolvers as i dont know them first hand, but in my gun club we actually have 2 erma revolvers from the 1970's which have many thousand rounds without any failures at all through them, allthough this have been with european ammunition or quality reloads, maybe a brilliant gunsmith such as your self should try to measure the bullet diameter of the IOF bullets first and try to draw your own conclusions from that, before you make any stupid statments about build quality, which you apparently are not educated enough to do.
I have no need of the reminants of cheap euro guns that have been fiddled with by the likes of you for 30+ years, not even as fishing weights, my pistol shooting revolves around the battery i use now which is a Para-ordnance P18 9mm with a 22lr kit and a ruger blackhawk 357 mag with a spare cylinder in 44/357.
3.
If webley was so good why is is not produced today!you people are fond of blowing your own trumpet,what you want to prove here that we should accept even a garbage produced in Europe.we never had a choice then but if given a chance no one in India would opt for webley in front of S&W,Colt etc.How many webleys are now produced and how many are exported worldwide today!!?If these were so good why did they stop making webley.
the design is not very good, in that to make them work, it demanded to many manhours (by sufficient gunsmiths) to acchive the quality webly demanded, that and the fact that most armed forces transfered to automatics instead made the death of this revolver a certainty.
only my wife is allowed to blow my trumpet and that is of no concern of yours, so let us stick to the subject.i would love if indian shooters had a choise and not being strong armed between shody manufactors, untrained ignorant gunsmiths(by the way where did you get your training) and criminally insane dealers who act like a turkish carpet salesman in a basar, as i see it it is only for the love of money and not the chance of actually producing something that could be a legasy to their heirs. shape up and start to walk tall for once in your life.
4.
Peter don't forget that we are a nuclear state and we are pretty capable of producing what ever you produce and manufacture,its just sad that we have a situation here in our Country that wrong man is at the right job, the day this changes the whole picture would change,and let me assure you ,there would hardly any place for such futile discussions on this forum then!Please don't underestimate us ,it just our bad luck running along at the moment. we are a developing nation and surely one day we will develop into one of the best dynamic democracies,if given a chance i can show you our capability anyday,!.
i shudder by the mere thought that you should actually have a need to defend yourself with those nukes, as to the rest i do belive that as soon as indians stop accepting their rulers toying around with their futures, something beautyfull can come of it, remember that i dont have a problem with indians(through this forum and elsewhere i have met many very nice people) my problems occur when ignorants and morons make claims about my trade that are so fundamentally wrong, that i have to speak up against it, conartists excist everywhere but sadly the indian populace has gotten more than their fair share of these in the gun business.
5.
and now for your manufacturing info,good information ,but i believe most of us already know as to how thinks are shaped up this is nothing new we are not sitting in KABUL, its india my dear we are already doing lot of R&D in other key sectors leaving alone this Firearm industry which our Stupid Govt is not paying attention to!,BTW if you ever get a chance to open up a RUGER P series pistol all your manufacturing Tolerances,machining data etc would show up there (all that glitters is not Gold).
so since you are so good at this, what is your excuse for not going in and redesigning the webly coming out of the IOF factory and making it a true racehorse, i do belive that you would have costumors lining up in front of your shop, since the know how is allready with you, i am sure that it will only take a coupel of months, for you to do this. you allready have CNC mashine shops ready with time to spare, so it would only be a small investment to make it happen.
In regards to the ruger, what is the price of said gun, i will tell you, only a few hundred dollars, the gun is made to fit in that price catagory, now the IOF gun cost the same as 3 glocks, manhours in india is so much cheaper than in europe or the states, still the gun costs 50 times more than it should, do get a grip and try to learn just the basis of business economics.
What do you charge Pr hour and what training do you have to justify that ?
6.
I know the inside story on IOF weapons in question,let me tell you there is really not anything so serious its just that these are poorly machined and still there is lot of metal left to clean up and bring it up to the required working Tolerances!
well since you have allready stated that serius to you means the death or injury to the client, forgive me if i have a hard time to put any revalance to your oppinion.
Peter,i respect your concern here, but you know you sounded little Harsh in the paragraphs !Don't attack us and blame us for poor performance of our products we are in no way responsible for all this! you think we take pleasure in revealing the production quality of our Govt infrastructure running on our Tax money ?or are we not bothered then my answer would be a big NO! we all are victims of Stupid policies but surely we are not "D---heads "!
It is quite clear to me that you dont respect me, your clients, or your work etich, only victims here is the shooters and end users of the products, the rest are all offenders by proxy, when they refuse to learn and keep scamming their clients out of money that rightfully is not theirs. if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
lets calm downand share the information on the forum in a lighter mood ,i think it would be good for all of us here.
I hope you would Excuse me for replying in the same manner.
i am very calm and do think the readers of these forums will benefit from an actual technial discussion without fairy dust explanations and BS, excuses only work for the people that give them, if you think you are doing something wrong, then dont do it, or think before you press the submit botton, you did not reply in the same manner, since you left out the technial basis to answer from.
Regards and enjoy your shoot
bobby
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i shoot the guns for a living, and enjoy my life and work thank you
peter
-- Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:54 am --
Sanjay wrote:peterdk wrote:
PLEASE oh god PLEASE, dont compare anything being made in india, to what other gunmakers are doing, first you will get my blood boiling which my wife tells me is not good for me, and second your gun factories couldent make a proper gun even if it were handed to them on a silver platter.
peter
Peter
Since you claim to be a gun maker from the EU
On what basis are you trying to pass judgement on the quality of products manufactured by IOF or other arms manufacturers in India.
Have you ever visited India or for that matter handled or fired any gun or ammo made by IOF.
sanjay
i not only claim to be a gunmaker, i have been mentioned in books and articles in this regards.
i have not been to india yet, but i dont need to be there to see just from the pictures that the quality so very low, the problems occuring also makes my statments very true.
enough about me, who are you ?
best
peter