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problem with .32 iof rev

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msbabbar
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby msbabbar » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:31 pm

couldnt attach photos here
instead tried photobucket
http://s1139.photobucket.com/albums/n548/msbabbar/

-- Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:08 pm --

couldnt attach photos here
instead tried photobucket
http://s1139.photobucket.com/albums/n548/msbabbar/



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nagarifle
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby nagarifle » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:11 pm

peterdk wrote:so we are back to the scrap iron and fairy dust part :lol:

best

peter


in a nut shell yes :lol:


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

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peterdk
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby peterdk » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:36 pm

Dear bobby, i have just been out shooting all day in the wonderfull danish spring, and might be bit playfull, so please take this tounge in cheek :P

bobbysidhu wrote:Mr Babbar,
There is nothing seriously wrong with your revolver or something that can't be corrected, your revolver is having excessive headspace, mistimed mechanism ,and poor chambers. These can easily be resolved by some component replacement and remachining the entire revolver.Nothing really wrong with MOC.(Material of Construction)

please tell me when you think there is a serius problem with a gun, either of these flaws would be enough to toss the gun in the reject bin at any manufactor in the free world.
I think you guys have really blown it out of proportion here, let me put some light on the fact that on the average SIX out of every TEN revs from SAF and FGK that we receive for jobwork have similar problems and not to forget that the newer models have even more problems to its credit than the older one, replacing the firing pin never solved the problem of misfiring on these revolvers however it aggravated to the extent that now these revolvers are very difficult to fire due to a very tough mainspring and poor fitting .

how can it be blown out of proportion,that the other hack factorys are doing an equally bad job, is in no way a hallmark of quality for the product here
These revolvers have some good features also, the newer models have a modified S&W mechanism incorporated in the belly, and due to this they are hard to bring to time because of hybrid action, but once done they simply outperform WEBLEYS,ERMA'S,Arminius and similar other crap revolvers running around in our country!

i refuse to belive that anything you guy's produce now can even remotly be compared to a webley, regarding the ermas they were made as low cost guns in germany mostly on a zinc alloy frame, and i do think that even they are at 30 years of age will proberly be head over heels better than any IOF gun.
Furthermore,do not forget that most of the So called firearm manufacturers are using the same grade of materials as IOF, its just that they are misleading people by saying Forged steel construction!As far as the indian market is concerened IOF is still the best than the rest of the junkies in the private sector.

i dont know what to say here, is it better to be gang raped be little blue space men than green ones
Most of the US and European manufacturers are making firearms from investment cast parts the way IOF is doing here. STURM RUGER one of the renowned US manufacturer is the First to have adopted this technique in making firearm and components from Investment casting and they just brought it to the level that IC parts are now being used for most of the firearm components worldwide.

PLEASE oh god PLEASE, dont compare anything being made in india, to what other gunmakers are doing, first you will get my blood boiling which my wife tells me is not good for me, and second your gun factories couldent make a proper gun even if it were handed to them on a silver platter.

two things:

first. investment castings are very good if you put enough money in the molds(having the right people making them to the right tol. would be a start)second the castings is only the first place to start, you actually have to machine and polish them afterwards. the slapping them together with a hammer is really REALLY not the way to go about it.

investment casting is strongly depentent on which materials you use, when you make your cast. as i have stated before scrap iron and fairy dust wont cut it.

the biggest problem here, is that the gun started out shooting all chambers, now after a few hundred shots it has a headspace problem, this means one of two things. the frame is streching or the cylinder is compressing, either thing should not be phycially able to happen in todays world of steel quality and technial know how, but again only in india.

best question today is what, if any, warrenty does the IOF products come with ?

best

peter


Life is to short for a low quality gun

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The Doc
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby The Doc » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:50 am

peterdk wrote:best question today is what, if any, warrenty does the IOF products come with ?


The IOF gives a warranty of one year on the Revolver or Pistol purchased directly from their factories provided the buyer does not alter the firearm in any way (good or bad) !! :mrgreen:
Once bought, the particular firearm can't be sold by the buyer for a period of five years.

best,
Rp.


It's always better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it !

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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby winnie_the_pooh » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:21 am

Peter,

Do you think the warranty of a manufacturer that can not make a reliable product in the first place,carries any weight?


Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.

cottage cheese
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby cottage cheese » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:22 am

...funny that people find it acceptable that IOF ironmongery comes with flaws even when factory fresh. What the hell is wrong with this country?


He who can not think, is a fool; he who will not, a bigot; he who dare not - a slave!

bobbysidhu
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby bobbysidhu » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:44 am

Dear Peter,
whatever you have said is all known to most of the folks here,so i was not really impressed with what you have just mentioned here ,this i believe is already been discussed on the forum eversince it started so please be little calm and just control your temper!
now coming to your queries here it goes:

1.
As you are already aware of the situation,serious to me is a situation on these revolvers when some component specially the barrel or the cylinder just blowing apart or the gun opened up while firing and putting the life of the shooter or the by standers in trouble,REMEMBER GOOD FELLA the problem with this gun is that its not firing on some of the chambers at all !so no potential threat as of now!.I have seen this situation on Webleys frequently and rarely on S&Ws,colts.
2.
My dear if you are interested why don't you come down to INDIA and gather all the beautiful ERMA and Arminius revolvers ,that according to you are outperformers!we in INDIA are authorised to buy or shoot 25 cartridger annually as per our governing laws and majority of the people here don't even consume that, People owing such revolvers find these guns coming loose with broken top straps and buldged breech face after firing couple of hundred shots, and most of your outperformers never even lasted more than 750 if we calculate (30years X25)shots and gave up!.
3.
If webley was so good why is is not produced today!you people are fond of blowing your own trumpet,what you want to prove here that we should accept even a garbage produced in Europe.we never had a choice then but if given a chance no one in India would opt for webley in front of S&W,Colt etc.How many webleys are now produced and how many are exported worldwide today!!?If these were so good why did they stop making webley.
4.
Peter don't forget that we are a nuclear state and we are pretty capable of producing what ever you produce and manufacture,its just sad that we have a situation here in our Country that wrong man is at the right job, the day this changes the whole picture would change,and let me assure you ,there would hardly any place for such futile discussions on this forum then!Please don't underestimate us ,it just our bad luck running along at the moment. we are a developing nation and surely one day we will develop into one of the best dynamic democracies,if given a chance i can show you our capability anyday,!.
5.
and now for your manufacturing info,good information ,but i believe most of us already know as to how thinks are shaped up this is nothing new we are not sitting in KABUL, its india my dear we are already doing lot of R&D in other key sectors leaving alone this Firearm industry which our Stupid Govt is not paying attention to!,BTW if you ever get a chance to open up a RUGER P series pistol all your manufacturing Tolerances,machining data etc would show up there (all that glitters is not Gold).
6.
I know the inside story on IOF weapons in question,let me tell you there is really not anything so serious its just that these are poorly machined and still there is lot of metal left to clean up and bring it up to the required working Tolerances!

Peter,i respect your concern here, but you know you sounded little Harsh in the paragraphs !Don't attack us and blame us for poor performance of our products we are in no way responsible for all this! you think we take pleasure in revealing the production quality of our Govt infrastructure running on our Tax money ?or are we not bothered then my answer would be a big NO! we all are victims of Stupid policies but surely we are not "D---heads "!

lets calm downand share the information on the forum in a lighter mood ,i think it would be good for all of us here.
I hope you would Excuse me for replying in the same manner.

Regards and enjoy your shoot
bobby



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Risala
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby Risala » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:15 am

peterdk wrote:

PLEASE oh god PLEASE, dont compare anything being made in india, to what other gunmakers are doing, first you will get my blood boiling which my wife tells me is not good for me, and second your gun factories couldent make a proper gun even if it were handed to them on a silver platter.

peter


Peter

Since you claim to be a gun maker from the EU

On what basis are you trying to pass judgement on the quality of products manufactured by IOF or other arms manufacturers in India.

Have you ever visited India or for that matter handled or fired any gun or ammo made by IOF.



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xl_target
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby xl_target » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:38 am

Bobby, Please don't make this discussion one about national pride.
The fact remains that IOF's products are inferior to almost anything produced anywhere.
Can you tell me anything that Peter has stated that is NOT true?
He wasn't attacking anything but an inferior product and the mentality that allows the production of such.
Jingoistic comments will not change that mentality or the viability of the product.

Let me address the points you brought up.
1. As you are already aware of the situation,serious to me is a situation on these revolvers when some component specially the barrel or the cylinder just blowing apart or the gun opened up while firing and putting the life of the shooter or the by standers in trouble,REMEMBER GOOD FELLA the problem with this gun is that its not firing on some of the chambers at all !so no potential threat as of now!.I have seen this situation on Webleys frequently and rarely on S&Ws,colts.

No potential threat? What if he had to use it to defend himself? Keep clicking till he finds a cylinder that fires?
2. My dear if you are interested why don't you come down to INDIA and gather all the beautiful ERMA and Arminius revolvers ,that according to you are outperformers!we in INDIA are authorised to buy or shoot 25 cartridger annually as per our governing laws and majority of the people here don't even consume that, People owing such revolvers find these guns coming loose with broken top straps and buldged breech face after firing couple of hundred shots, and most of your outperformers never even lasted more than 750 if we calculate (30years X25)shots and gave up!.

He did mention that the Erma's etc had zinc alloy frames and were therefore substandard handguns. Yet they didn't seem to have half the problems that we hear about the IOF.
3. If webley was so good why is is not produced today!you people are fond of blowing your own trumpet,what you want to prove here that we should accept even a garbage produced in Europe.we never had a choice then but if given a chance no one in India would opt for webley in front of S&W,Colt etc.How many webleys are now produced and how many are exported worldwide today!!?If these were so good why did they stop making webley.

because it is an obsolete design and there are much better handguns being made today. No one in their right mind would buy one purely for self defense if they had the choice of a more modern handgun. However, the materials
4. Peter don't forget that we are a nuclear state and we are pretty capable of producing what ever you produce and manufacture,its just sad that we have a situation here in our Country that wrong man is at the right job, the day this changes the whole picture would change,and let me assure you ,there would hardly any place for such futile discussions on this forum then!Please don't underestimate us ,it just our bad luck running along at the moment. we are a developing nation and surely one day we will develop into one of the best dynamic democracies,if given a chance i can show you our capability anyday,!.

Yes it is sad that a state capable of producing nuclear weapons will produce such junk. Bad luck? B.S. there is no luck involved here.
A state that can produce computers, automobiles, etc can't prodcue a decent handgun? It's corrupt bureaucrats running a state protected industry who have no reason to produce anything better. Being a developing country has nothing to do with it.

. 5. and now for your manufacturing info,good information ,but i believe most of us already know as to how thinks are shaped up this is nothing new we are not sitting in KABUL, its india my dear we are already doing lot of R&D in other key sectors leaving alone this Firearm industry which our Stupid Govt is not paying attention to!,BTW if you ever get a chance to open up a RUGER P series pistol all your manufacturing Tolerances,machining data etc would show up there (all that glitters is not Gold).

Yes that may be, but the Rugers will fire every time the trigger is pulled and won't be damaged by repeated firing. They are dependable, reliable and accurate and backed by good customer service. For the most part you can trust your life implicitly to a Ruger handgun, if it is being used as a self defense tool. The IOF handguns are not even in the same universe as a Ruger.
6. I know the inside story on IOF weapons in question,let me tell you there is really not anything so serious its just that these are poorly machined and still there is lot of metal left to clean up and bring it up to the required working Tolerances!

Poor machining and substandard materials are "not serious" in a tool designed to be a life saving implement? Boggles the mind.

-- Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:09 am --

Sanjay wrote:
peterdk wrote:

PLEASE oh god PLEASE, dont compare anything being made in india, to what other gunmakers are doing, first you will get my blood boiling which my wife tells me is not good for me, and second your gun factories couldent make a proper gun even if it were handed to them on a silver platter.

peter


Peter

Since you claim to be a gun maker from the EU

On what basis are you trying to pass judgement on the quality of products manufactured by IOF or other arms manufacturers in India.

Have you ever visited India or for that matter handled or fired any gun or ammo made by IOF.


Sanjay, is not what he says true?
Are IOF products superior or even equal to what is being produced in Europe?


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

msbabbar
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby msbabbar » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:42 am

:agree: bobby.
but something needs to be done.
atleast join NAGRI.
people out there are trying and GOD willingly they will succeed very soon.

-- Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:43 am --

anyways how to correct the flaw in the revolver in question



Bespoke
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby Bespoke » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:51 am

Well said XL_target.IOF needs to pull up its socks.
Last edited by Bespoke on Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.


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xl_target
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby xl_target » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:53 am

Compare the revolver shown (in the linked thread) to the current IOF product. It was produced almost 50 years ago.
My sense of national pride is offended (and yours should be too) that even today, with modern machine tools available, we don't produce something even close to that.
http://gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?t=422652


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

msbabbar
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby msbabbar » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:10 pm

now this http://gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?t=422652 cost $400
do we expect to get something like this at such a cost in india just Rs.18000



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peterdk
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby peterdk » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:16 pm

bobbysidhu wrote:Dear Peter,
whatever you have said is all known to most of the folks here,so i was not really impressed with what you have just mentioned here ,this i believe is already been discussed on the forum eversince it started so please be little calm and just control your temper!
now coming to your queries here it goes:

well Bobby, this is very calm from my side and you have not even seen my temper yet, very few things can rock my boat, but lousy gunmakers and stupid gunsmiths will do it every time.
1.
As you are already aware of the situation,serious to me is a situation on these revolvers when some component specially the barrel or the cylinder just blowing apart or the gun opened up while firing and putting the life of the shooter or the by standers in trouble,REMEMBER GOOD FELLA the problem with this gun is that its not firing on some of the chambers at all !so no potential threat as of now!.I have seen this situation on Webleys frequently and rarely on S&Ws,colts.

first i dont think you and i are aquinted enough for you to call me FELLA, so please refrain from doing that in the future. Second inyour world you only consider it serius if the product have a catastrofic failure and kills or maims the shooter, i am sure that your costumors will be sleeping better knowing that their guns failing them is not serius unless they get hurt or die :shock:
2.
My dear if you are interested why don't you come down to INDIA and gather all the beautiful ERMA and Arminius revolvers ,that according to you are outperformers!we in INDIA are authorised to buy or shoot 25 cartridger annually as per our governing laws and majority of the people here don't even consume that, People owing such revolvers find these guns coming loose with broken top straps and buldged breech face after firing couple of hundred shots, and most of your outperformers never even lasted more than 750 if we calculate (30years X25)shots and gave up!.

bobby boy since you are apparently trying goad me into trash talk, instead of debating this out on a proffesionel level, i will try to elevate you into a higher level of this debate, i never discussed the quality of the armenius revolvers as i dont know them first hand, but in my gun club we actually have 2 erma revolvers from the 1970's which have many thousand rounds without any failures at all through them, allthough this have been with european ammunition or quality reloads, maybe a brilliant gunsmith such as your self should try to measure the bullet diameter of the IOF bullets first and try to draw your own conclusions from that, before you make any stupid statments about build quality, which you apparently are not educated enough to do.
I have no need of the reminants of cheap euro guns that have been fiddled with by the likes of you for 30+ years, not even as fishing weights, my pistol shooting revolves around the battery i use now which is a Para-ordnance P18 9mm with a 22lr kit and a ruger blackhawk 357 mag with a spare cylinder in 44/357.
3.
If webley was so good why is is not produced today!you people are fond of blowing your own trumpet,what you want to prove here that we should accept even a garbage produced in Europe.we never had a choice then but if given a chance no one in India would opt for webley in front of S&W,Colt etc.How many webleys are now produced and how many are exported worldwide today!!?If these were so good why did they stop making webley.

the design is not very good, in that to make them work, it demanded to many manhours (by sufficient gunsmiths) to acchive the quality webly demanded, that and the fact that most armed forces transfered to automatics instead made the death of this revolver a certainty.
only my wife is allowed to blow my trumpet and that is of no concern of yours, so let us stick to the subject.i would love if indian shooters had a choise and not being strong armed between shody manufactors, untrained ignorant gunsmiths(by the way where did you get your training) and criminally insane dealers who act like a turkish carpet salesman in a basar, as i see it it is only for the love of money and not the chance of actually producing something that could be a legasy to their heirs. shape up and start to walk tall for once in your life.
4.
Peter don't forget that we are a nuclear state and we are pretty capable of producing what ever you produce and manufacture,its just sad that we have a situation here in our Country that wrong man is at the right job, the day this changes the whole picture would change,and let me assure you ,there would hardly any place for such futile discussions on this forum then!Please don't underestimate us ,it just our bad luck running along at the moment. we are a developing nation and surely one day we will develop into one of the best dynamic democracies,if given a chance i can show you our capability anyday,!.

ROTFL ROTFL i shudder by the mere thought that you should actually have a need to defend yourself with those nukes, as to the rest i do belive that as soon as indians stop accepting their rulers toying around with their futures, something beautyfull can come of it, remember that i dont have a problem with indians(through this forum and elsewhere i have met many very nice people) my problems occur when ignorants and morons make claims about my trade that are so fundamentally wrong, that i have to speak up against it, conartists excist everywhere but sadly the indian populace has gotten more than their fair share of these in the gun business.
5.
and now for your manufacturing info,good information ,but i believe most of us already know as to how thinks are shaped up this is nothing new we are not sitting in KABUL, its india my dear we are already doing lot of R&D in other key sectors leaving alone this Firearm industry which our Stupid Govt is not paying attention to!,BTW if you ever get a chance to open up a RUGER P series pistol all your manufacturing Tolerances,machining data etc would show up there (all that glitters is not Gold).

so since you are so good at this, what is your excuse for not going in and redesigning the webly coming out of the IOF factory and making it a true racehorse, i do belive that you would have costumors lining up in front of your shop, since the know how is allready with you, i am sure that it will only take a coupel of months, for you to do this. you allready have CNC mashine shops ready with time to spare, so it would only be a small investment to make it happen.
In regards to the ruger, what is the price of said gun, i will tell you, only a few hundred dollars, the gun is made to fit in that price catagory, now the IOF gun cost the same as 3 glocks, manhours in india is so much cheaper than in europe or the states, still the gun costs 50 times more than it should, do get a grip and try to learn just the basis of business economics.
What do you charge Pr hour and what training do you have to justify that ?
6.
I know the inside story on IOF weapons in question,let me tell you there is really not anything so serious its just that these are poorly machined and still there is lot of metal left to clean up and bring it up to the required working Tolerances!

well since you have allready stated that serius to you means the death or injury to the client, forgive me if i have a hard time to put any revalance to your oppinion.

Peter,i respect your concern here, but you know you sounded little Harsh in the paragraphs !Don't attack us and blame us for poor performance of our products we are in no way responsible for all this! you think we take pleasure in revealing the production quality of our Govt infrastructure running on our Tax money ?or are we not bothered then my answer would be a big NO! we all are victims of Stupid policies but surely we are not "D---heads "!

It is quite clear to me that you dont respect me, your clients, or your work etich, only victims here is the shooters and end users of the products, the rest are all offenders by proxy, when they refuse to learn and keep scamming their clients out of money that rightfully is not theirs. if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
lets calm downand share the information on the forum in a lighter mood ,i think it would be good for all of us here.
I hope you would Excuse me for replying in the same manner.

i am very calm and do think the readers of these forums will benefit from an actual technial discussion without fairy dust explanations and BS, excuses only work for the people that give them, if you think you are doing something wrong, then dont do it, or think before you press the submit botton, you did not reply in the same manner, since you left out the technial basis to answer from.

Regards and enjoy your shoot
bobby
[/quote][/quote]
i shoot the guns for a living, and enjoy my life and work thank you

peter

-- Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:54 am --

Sanjay wrote:
peterdk wrote:

PLEASE oh god PLEASE, dont compare anything being made in india, to what other gunmakers are doing, first you will get my blood boiling which my wife tells me is not good for me, and second your gun factories couldent make a proper gun even if it were handed to them on a silver platter.

peter


Peter

Since you claim to be a gun maker from the EU

On what basis are you trying to pass judgement on the quality of products manufactured by IOF or other arms manufacturers in India.

Have you ever visited India or for that matter handled or fired any gun or ammo made by IOF.


sanjay

i not only claim to be a gunmaker, i have been mentioned in books and articles in this regards.
i have not been to india yet, but i dont need to be there to see just from the pictures that the quality so very low, the problems occuring also makes my statments very true.
enough about me, who are you ?

best

peter


Life is to short for a low quality gun

m24
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Re: problem with .32 iof rev

Postby m24 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:38 pm

Wow!!! People are actually defending the IOF products. :shock:

Regards


Jeff Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun safety:
1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it.


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