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Imported Ammo

Ammunition, accessories and shooting-related gear & equipment - including Optics and Sights.
TwoRivers
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby TwoRivers » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:28 am

Yes, as a coincidence, 57 mm happens to be the case length. There are about a dozen cartridges with a case of that length. But that alone would never be used as a headstamp. Headstamps on military cartridges never carry the civilian designation, they typically identify the manufacturing arsenal, the load type, or manufacturing year. With each country having a distinctive system.

Unless the rifle passed through Britain and was British proofed, ".311" would not appear stamped on the rifle. That's a purely British designation for the cartridge. But yes, pictures of the rifle would help to positively identify it.



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xl_target
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby xl_target » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:59 am

Peacefulguns wrote:Your guess about sS heavy ball is right. Wikipedia details it well. Thanks for the reference .57mm is the length .

Please listen to Two Rivers. If 57 is the case length, it is a coincidence.
As Two Rivers mentions, it is either the year of manufacture or the arsenal number.
On military surplus ammo, which is what that looks like (The two on the left), you would never see the civilian designation for the cartridges.


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Peacefulguns
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby Peacefulguns » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Some of the cartridges I got have the letter A or what seems like a W engraved on it. Would that be referring to the load or what?



TwoRivers
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby TwoRivers » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:40 am

Most likely an arsenal code letter. A single letter or number usually designates the arsenal. The cartridge was used and produced in so many countries, and over such a long time, that it's almost impossible to know or catalogue all the headstamp variations.



Peacefulguns
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby Peacefulguns » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:21 pm

The proof marks of my rifle are in the photos. How do you read them?

I have finally ordered an iof .22 rifle. If all goes well I should have it in December itself. The dealer was also suggesting that the iof one would be better. He says anytime I wish to dispose it off he will buy it back at the same price.

Thanks in advance.
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Grumpy
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby Grumpy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:23 pm

Rather strange proof marks to find on a BSA .22LR. LOL
Seems that you should have started a new thread because these are German proof marks and appear to relate to a Gewehr.98.
The factory and date of manufacture will be stamped on top of the ring at the forward edge of the receiver.
The marks are the firing acceptance mark, the receiver acceptance mark ..... and something else that I can`t remember. :) Vikram is a LOT better on German proof marks than I am.
There appears to be rather a lot of rust/scale/pitting


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Peacefulguns
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby Peacefulguns » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:28 pm

Sorry they are the marks on my v chr schilling .311 bore rifle. Vikram had asked for these but in the imported ammo thread, so I answered in this one. Yes the camera is rather unforgiving isn't it.



Grumpy
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby Grumpy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:39 pm

Unforgiving yes ..... but it isn`t showing what isn`t there.

.311 calibre ? You have a German made .303 ?


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Grumpy
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby Grumpy » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:13 am

How do you know that the rifle is .311 calibre ?
Very strange for a WWI Suhl built Gewehr.98 ..... Very strange for any M98 if it comes to that.


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Grumpy
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby Grumpy » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 am

Oh. Just discovered that .311 is 7.92x57 ( 8x57. )
I would have thought that would be much more likely to be 7.92x57 I than 7.92x57 IS however but the changeover was 1903/5 and I didn`t think there were any Suhl built Gew.98s built before 1914.


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TwoRivers
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Re: BSA tubular .22 rifle

Postby TwoRivers » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:39 am

Grumpy wrote:Oh. Just discovered that .311 is 7.92x57 ( 8x57. )
I would have thought that would be much more likely to be 7.92x57 I than 7.92x57 IS however but the changeover was 1903/5 and I didn`t think there were any Suhl built Gew.98s built before 1914.


Grumpy, what makes you think the rifle was built pre-1914 ?

Both are .311 bore in military rifles. The grooves were deepened until by 1895 they were .006" instead of the original .004" deep. Civilian bore dimensions differ slightly since they used a bilateral tolerance, =/- .03 mm, rather than the Prussian arsenals' positive .05 mm.



Grumpy
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby Grumpy » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:02 am

I don`t think the rifle was built before 1914 - hence my confusion.
A land to land measurement of .311" with bullet diameter of .318" seemed more likely than with a bullet diameter of .323 is what I meant.
I was under the impression that the post 1903/05 7.92x57 IS .323" bullet necessitated a change in bore diameter from the previous 7.92x57 I .318" bullet diameter.........................


Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

( Terry Pratchett )

Grumpy
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby Grumpy » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:22 am

Very strange when one is posting in one thread and the the posts are transferred to another .....
Ignore my comments re the German .303 - I was having a brain storm....... Quite a spectacular one.


Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

( Terry Pratchett )

TwoRivers
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby TwoRivers » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:31 am

Grumpy wrote:I don`t think the rifle was built before 1914 - hence my confusion.
A land to land measurement of .311" with bullet diameter of .318" seemed more likely than with a bullet diameter of .323 is what I meant.
I was under the impression that the post 1903/05 7.92x57 IS .323" bullet necessitated a change in bore diameter from the previous 7.92x57 I .318" bullet diameter.........................


It would be under modern practice. But in those quasi-experimtal days of small caliber jacketed bullets, new smokeless powders and poor barrel steel, having higher lands/deeper grooves seemed a solution to the accelerated barrel wear experienced compared to the previous blackpowder/lead bullet combination. Only thing that was needed when going to the "S" bullet was reaming the chamber neck and bullet seat. That process was completed in 1905. The French, instead, made their solid brass "Balle D" two diameter, with the portion seated in the case remaining at .321" like the "Balle M", with the portion ahead going to full groove diameter of .327".



Grumpy
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Re: Imported Ammo

Postby Grumpy » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:11 am

Well ..... that makes sense ......
I wasn`t aware that the only difference between the two was that the oversize ( compared to the `I` spec ) chamber neck and bullet seat ........
It`s bizarre that nanny state Europe has no problem allowing full-power 8x57 IS and IRS ammunition yet US manufacturers adhere strictly to the feeble SAAMI 8x57 I ( and IR ) specs....... It has got to be because of the litigious nature of US society.


Make a man a fire and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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