Scopes for Rimfires

[Grumpy]

"Whilst I may be wrong, I personally view the Americans penchant for Leupold scopes as a case of patriotism mixed with a fair amount of follow the herd mentality."
- As in so many things.
Leupold make some very good scopes but by the time they are imported into Europe they are often overpriced in comparison with the top European manufacturers.
I don`t care for the `budget` Nikon scopes although they do seem to offer very good value for money - the more expensive range has very nice optics.
It`s easy to be seduced by remarkable light transmission properties but that is often combined with inferior optics however saying that some Bushnells are remarkably good value for money........and some aren`t too wonderful.
I rate the better Meopta scopes with those made by Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski and Zeiss. Many Kahles scopes have optics by Swarovski.
I hadn`t heard that Pecar had ceased trading which is a great shame. The lens were of superb quality although - as discussed in another thread - the coatings were not necessarily the most up-to-date.
The quality of Chinese made scopes varies dramatically - from absolute crap to ridiculously good for the money. Some Chinese scopes use Japanese optics but telling which is which is largely trial and error. I do rate Debens Hawke range very highly and still consider that their `Nite Eye Dot IR` scopes cannot be beaten on a value for money basis. There are similar scopes made to similar specifications with various `manufacturers` names applied with prices varying dramatically. If you have a good quality reference scope it really helps when buying a `budget` scope as you have something to compare it to. Light transmission isn`t the be-all and end-all criteria of scopes quality - only of its ability to transmit light. Edge distortions and aberations are what one should look out for.

[shahid]

Today a whole leot of TASCO, bUSHNELL, Gamo and other scopes are made in China but perform as per the BRAND owners specs.

[mehulkamdar]

Mack The Knife,

Leupold are certainly not the ultimate US made scopes - US Optics, ATN, Nightforce, US Night Vision (for whom Mark and I are agents) etc are. The comparison was between low priced and medium priced brands and hence my conclusion. I did not compare Leupolds with Swarovski or Schmidt und Bender if you noted. I do have a Bushnell 3-9 on the Marlin and the Leuplds I suggested to my friend were vastly superior both in terms of image clarity, flare reduction and reduction of peripheral aberrations. Try to check Sat's scope side by side with a Bushnell on these criteria.

Grumpy has said something that I had hinted at as a possibility - the better Chinese scopes use Japanese made lenses. Honestly, I would have been very surprised if Chinese quality had improved form producing crappy spectacle lenses and rough blanks to producing high grade optical lenses in just three or four years. That, simply, cannot happen as this is an art and a science that requires painstaking care.

As far as coatings are concerned, single coatings (MgF) are usually violet and wit multiple coatings the colour of the coat goes through the VIBGYOR range to red. Not having seen the scopes that you are talking about, I can only guess as to what the reason may be for this colour. I know that Aimpoint in Sweden specify that the lenses used on their red dot sights are multi coated until they are red. Didn't check Swarovskis when I went to check on the rimfire scopes for my friend - he was looking for something in the $ 220 range, not in the $ 1200 range. I shall check out the Swarovskis when I go to Gander next.

Grumpy,

There was a major discussion on the NE forums about Pecar closing down. The owner, Michael Schwarz wrote to the forums to confirm this.

BTW as far as coatings are concerned, with the exception of the Russians' proprietary process, all lenses are vacuum coated using Magnesium Fluoride. Some of them use a gravity deposition methid where the vapourised MgF is allowed to settle over the lens and in other cases an electron beam gun is used to hasten the process. Only one western company, Rodenstock (now a part of the Zeiss empire) used a technique similar to what the Russians occasionally do in bonding together lenses of different refractive indices - their now long dead Perfasin series. They were unable to get the kind of results that the Russians have been able to achieve.

There are many companies that make vacuum coating machines but those that make the top end machines are very few in number - Leybold A G (a favourite in Japan since all the Japanese optics manbufacturers use them - Nikon, Asahi Corp, Shin Nippon, Towa etc) Balzar and Satis. The sheer price of one of these machines makes them a very specialised piece of equipment to have and not many companies, even large ones, can afford to buy them.

Cheers!

[hamiclar01]

"....I do rate Debens Hawke range very highly and still consider that their `Nite Eye Dot IR scopes cannot be beaten on a value for money basis...."

I'd certainly agree with that Grumpy! price for price, I found that deben Hwak range great value for money. I've had a basic 3-6X50 for about a year, and found it equally good, if not better than a lot of other pricier varieties. Their Multiple aiming reticles certainly score over traditional mil dots....as far as air guns go, specially for people like me who can't bear swotting over click adjustments and range estimations!

[Mack The Knife]

Their Multiple aiming reticles certainly score over traditional mil dots.

Not my cup of tea. I prefer a cleaner sight picture and have even done away with the two or three mil-dot scopes I used to have.

Besides which, I have always enjoyed estimating range.

Mack The Knife

[dev]

I agree that if your shooting a .22 no further than 50 and 75 yards most $15 and $32 scopes will do. In fact I had a Japanese brand called Foremost which in my boyhood ignorance I switched frequently from springer to .22 for years.

Scopes are a subject as deep as the sea. There is no end to how much you can spend on them. I think I will try to get a real top dollar one the next time I hit the phoren shores.

This time I got my cheap thrills by just staring at them .

Regards,

Dev

Then from personsal experience, I have gifted at least 7 Norconia scopes, 3-9x x 40 costing Rs. 3,000 each to friends in India. Lets see what .22 LRs

Brno Model 2
IOF .22 x 2 people
BSA - x 2 people
Anchungz
Marlin

All of them are working perfectly.

These Norconia Telescopes are sold at Al Seyad Hunting Equipment , Dubai for Dhs. 250 to 275 by the dozen everyday.

[Grumpy]

"phoren shores." I puzzled over that statement for quite some time before I `twigged` that `phoren` = foreign. This text-speak is doing my head in !
I`m with you Dodger as regards the mimimalist view through a scope. I want the least amount of clutter possible on my reticles which is another reason that I like the Hawke Dot IR scopes. The Hawke multi-aiming point scopes have had excellent reviews but they`re not for me.......even more cluttered and awkward than a mil-dot reticle !
If I remember I will take a small laminated sheet of the bullet drop figures relating to the cartridge/bullet that I`m going to use. If I remember............

[hamiclar01]

"....I`m with you Dodger as regards the mimimalist view through a scope. I want the least amount of clutter possible on my reticles which is another reason that I like the Hawke Dot IR scopes. The Hawke multi-aiming point scopes have had excellent reviews but they`re not for me.......even more cluttered and awkward than a mil-dot reticle...."

was about to open my mouth with a wisecracker-coated protest, but, to each his own poison, i guess. you with your uncluttered reticles, me with my cluttered ones . staring everyday at multiple patient monitors "cluttered" with rapidly changing data makes me feel at home with the concept, and i honestly enjoy MAPs........ which is what a hobby is all about!

anand

[Mack The Knife]

The MAPs aren't half as cluttered as the SR6 and SR12.

My prefered reticle would be a 30-30 with an illuminated dot or a German No. 4.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

Yup, a 4A with a dot - that`ll do me.