Buying Knives and other sharp n shiny objects in Rajasthan.

[Moin.]

After leaving "Arjun Singh Talwaar Saaz" I wandered around looking for curious for friends, girlfriends, aunties and uncles, I entered into a small Handicraft shop which had a few of these koftagiri work on gunmetal khanjars selling for INR 3K to INR 5K. These seemed very ordinary run of the mill stuff. I bumped there into the owner of another handicraft shop Mr. Talib who asked me if I was interested in buying some quality stuff and off we went on his motorcycle to his cousins store who's apparently the son of largest antique weapons dealer in Rajasthan Nanhe Mian. I met Mr. Shakir there ( Nanhe Mian's son) a wonderfully warm and friendly person. After showing the run of the mill stuff in the store, he took me to the inside of the shop to look at some antique knives.

Gent's, I've not seen so many genuine antiques daggers, pesh kabz, jambiya's in one place except in museums. He very graciously allowed me to take photographs with my mobile.Price (wheeww !!! ) between INR 20K to INR 1.5 Lacs.

On asking if he had any swords for sale he sent his salesman to take to his Godown behind his shop. The things a bloddy museum, rows and rows and rows of beautiful, highly ornate antique swords on display, more than 70 to 80 mounted on show cases on the wall and 30 to 40 less ornate ones lying on the floor along with other armour, sheilds, battle axes, chain main, helmets etc. This man has been sourcing old antique swords from all over Rajasthan and sending them to various antique dealers and collectors through out the country. ( Price between INR 25K for the plane Jane ones similar to what I saw at " Arjun Sing Talwaar Saaz" to INR 10 Lacs for ones with gold plated handles. Saw a very interesting piece with two flintlock barrells jutting out of the Handle ,! !!!! I have taken pics from my crappy mobile, but seeing this place is beleiving. Totally Surreal Experience. I would never had guessed would get a chance to handle so many antiques swords, daggers etc at one time at one place. I'm sure each battle scarred sword has a unique story to tell, battles won, battles lost, blood shed !!! It's a absolutely unique experience holding such a weapon.

If in Jaipur do check this place out.

Indian Arts and Crafts
H,o 1888, Nala Nilgran,Ramganj Bazar, Jaipur 3.
..............

[Moin.]

Next Pit stop was at Kuber Handicrafts. This store is a whole seller and supplies these Koftagiri and ornamnetal daggers, swords etc to most of the handicraft stores in Jaipur. This is from where today, I've purcahsed a gorgeous very ornate 36" Sword with Damascened Blade, Camel bone on the handle, and the scabbard is full of Koftagiri inlay work, 3 daggers, I sword Stick beautifully concealed in a ornate walking stick with mother of pearl inlaid work on handle (for my boss, he's fascinated with Sword sticks and has a pretty decent collection of knives him self) . And some fancy jewellery, gift items for all my girl frieds . More to Kuber later.


Next went to what is supposed to be the largest handicraft showroom in Jaipur. This is a huge 5000 sqmft very plush showroom on the outskirts of the city on Highway No.8 , Opposite Hanuman KA temple. Met a gentleman by the name of Mr. Vijay who took to to where the knives and swords were on display. These guys have the largest collection of locally crafted blades that I've seen in Jaipur so far and I 've visited many many stores since the last two days. They also have top quality replicas in gold, precious stones etc but those are priced in lakhs.

All though the variety here is the largest I have seen the prices of several multiples of what is available in other stores in Jaipur. I therefore avoided buying the koftagiri work and camel bone handle blades and went in for a large Arkansas Toothpick like double edge dagger with a faux damascus blade (lovely pattern) about 7 to 8 inches long , rosewood Handle , mirror polished brass guard and pommel. What impressed me was the finsihing where the tang enters the handle, the neat joint between the brass and the rosewood. The only eyesore was the rat tail tang juts out of the pommel and has a stupid looking nut to lock it in the handle. I'll figure out a way to have this removed later. The price quoted for this was INR 6K, and after bargaining with him for quite some time and handling every blade on display he let it go for INR 4.5 K. I found it to be an acceptable after having lloked at several stores around the city and the finishing on this knife. Will post pics, swwwweeeeet sweeeeeet looking dagger......... My take here is that handicaft items in this store are exorbitantly priced, I made an execption for this piece as liked the fit finish size workmanship and I thought paying a small premium for this is justifiable... And hell you only get to live once !.........

[Bruno22]

A true knife buyers travelog. Its been great reading your detailed posts. Looking forward to the pictures.

Bruno22

[Rajat]

No wonders, if you keep going around and have some diversity in your interests you will find tonnes of stuff around.

Look up Vaman Ghiya.

Sorry to go out of topic.

[hunterjack]

bookmarking this thread. awesome piece of information for knife buyers and thanks for sharing it. now waiting for the pics.

[Olly]

A detailed 'Knifologue' indeed !!

Inspires me to take a trip down to the lanes you've visited and have a first hand look myself... !!

Still don't have a Khanjar in my collection... all the more reason !

Thanks for posting the lovely thread...

[Moin.]

This is where I purchased my dagger from, This place has the largest variety , but I do not recommended buying from as the prices here are exorbitant compared to the rest of the stores in Jaipur. This store is basically meant for Foreign Tourist with deep pockets.

Jaipur Handicrafts, Company
302001, National Highway No. 8 Near Khole Ke Hanumanji, Opposite, Panch Mukhi Hanumanji Temple 

After site seeing with mother india on my way back from Amer fort dropped by again in a few very large handicraft shops. Again this is a prime tourist location, has two five star hotels near by, so accordingly like in Jaipur Handicarfts on Highway No.8 the prices are over the top.

So having looked at most of the stores in Jaipur.( left hotel at 9.00, and back by 4.00 to take mother India for site seeing and shopping.** Mum would'nt leave hotel till 4 due to the 40 degree + Temperatures) I decided to indulge again from Kuber Handicrafts as the prices seemed the lowest (they are whole sellers), they have a very good variety(right from plane Jane ones to gold Koftagiri work. (saw an engraved shield with gold inlay for INR 1.5 Lac. Whewww )

At least from what I saw in Jaipur locally carfted damascened blades and swords are available in the following categories.

1) Touristy Junk : You will find these at Ajmer opposite Anasagar Lake. These swords are what a local groom is likely to carry getting married. These neither have any display value or utility... Priced between INR 250 to INR 600... A lot of chinese fancy swords and fanatasy knives avaialble INR 200 onwards for knives and these Conan the Barbarian Types Fantasy Broadswords and axes for around InR 2500.

*** Note***

These BA.';_"DS shop owners in Pushkar are so used to foreign tourists they will not even allow you forget the locals to touch their wares.... Strange people in Ajmer are so opposite to what the people in Jaipur who are so warm and friendly. In Ajmer right from the Khadims in the Dargahs to the rickshawallahs to the hotel owners are out to fleece you.


2) Locally Forged Good Quality Swords and Knives : This purchase is on top my list now. Have not yet come across a good quality one. Ornamentation or display value is not so important. The sword that I saw at Arjun Singh Talwaar Saaz was pretty good at INR 2.5K but weighed several kilos. Reminded me of the khandas I had seen in Amritsar. I'm sure on being sharpened ( legal isssues ) these will have awesome chopping power. Like Rajat mentioned there are craftsmen in Jodhpur still practising this art near Jalori gate, but will visit again after a few months to Joadhpur with this purchase on my agenda. Now have dented my wallet to a considerable degree . I would guess good quality swords would be priced between INR 2K and North.

Mother's chwing my brains to take her out to some good place for dinner. Signing out. More details later.

P.S; Gentlemen strange but neither Jaipur handicrafts nor Kuber allows photography in their premises. They have infact pur up signs saying " No Photography Permitted" So sorry....

-- Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:22 pm --

Dinner done and back to buisness !!!

3) Old/Antiques: Sheer pleasure holding these well made and used Swords and knives, like holding a beautiful woman in your arms and singing " Tumhari zulf ke saaye main shaam kardoonga, safar yeh umr KA pal main tamaaam kar doonga"".

Sorry got a bit carried away.

Saw these 50 to 250 year olds ( at Hawa Mahal) priced upto INR 12.5K and at Nanhe Mian from INR 20K to INR 10 Lacs.

I have a lot of Rajasthani Contractors, masons and marble workers who've worked for me when I was into Turnkey Contracting for offices and who now work for me in my ongoing jobs. I'll put them to task of sourcing these for me. And If I happen stumble upon any hidden buried treasure will surely share with the members of this forum.

***
I would have purchased one of these pieces from Arjun Sing but these were very sharp and getting caught with two large swords, 4 large knives and a sword stick is the last thing I want to do as I understand as long as it's blunt it's not a problem.

Shakir from India Arts and Crafts had offered to home deliver any antique sword any where in India at a cost of INR 3K along with an invoice and certificate saying it's a handicraft item. In fact he mentioned he's got stores in London, Paris and Italy and sending it anywhere in the world is not a problem, he's got buyers all over the world. Sounded fishy to me !!!!!!

Buy these if you have very deep pockets, the money's for the antique value of the blades, and like all other things in life, good things come at a price. !!!.

[Moin.]

4) Faux Damascus Knife & Swords: This is what aroused my interest after seeing posts by this gentleman Mr. Bantu Bana in the IFG forums. These come in basically gun metal handles and scabbards which are engraved first and then inlaid with silver and gold wire.

a) Small 4" blades: These come with gun metal handles and scabbards with silver koftagiri works, the quality of inlay works and finesse in design varies from shop to shop. These small knives are priced INR 800 onwards in places such as Kuber Handicrafts to about INR 3000 in places like Jaipur Handicrafts. These wither have a hamiya like handle or come with either a lions head or a camels head at the pommel. The some damascened blades also have small tigers or motif inliad on the blade. I saw an exquisite piece with gold inlay priced at INR 12000 at India Arts and Crafts..

B) Larger 6" to 8" blades: You'll find most variety in this size category. Pieces similar to the above description but in larger blade sizes are priced from INR 2000 ( Gold Inlay ones expensive) to INR 3000 depending on the finesse of the inlay work.

Then there are knives again to the above description but where the designs on the scabbard and the handle are cut in the metal and velvet lining below the metal on the scabbard is visible from the cutout portions. I've purchased 3 of these ( one for me and two for friends) after bargaining hard at Kuber Handicrafts for INR 2000 each after a quoted price of INR 2500.

Third type in these come with the above description but with camel bone fitted at the handles. These were priced at INR 2500 each at Kuber Handicrafts, and a crazy INR 8000 to INR 12000 at places like Jaipur Handicrafts . I did'nt buy these as picked up a 36" sword in this pattern.

** Most recommended category for knife lovers below** I ran short of budget

Then there are the misc. Types of khanjars, peshkabz, in various traditional blade signs with very high quality mix of gold and silver inlay work with the inlay work sometimes extending to the thick spines of the peshkabz. The damascus blades on these seemed to be of a better/different quality than the other types. The swirl patterns ( johars as they call it here) were not so prominent as on the above types but were only visible on close inspection. This steel was very similar to the antique blades I saw at Nanhe Mians. At Kubers handicrafts these are priced at an average of INR 6000 to INR 7000 and one exquisite pesh kanbz with gold inlay work, on the handle, extending on the thick spine, silver ornamentation on the leather and wood scabbard was priced at INR 18000.
--------------------------------------
Kukris are also available with inlay work and damascened blades for about INR 6000.

There's one very interesting category of knives available in this category" the Tiger Knife" This is a version of the traditional katar . The handle of the Katar needs to be squeezed and a nasty looking blade pops out from what looks like a metal scabbard of the Katar. This was again priced at about INR 6000 to a ridiculous INR 12000 at some places. Guess this is an old indian version of the spring actuated knife .

C) Swords in category A and B about 24 " long. These are priced at around INR 6000 in Kuber.

D) Full sized 36" Swords with above description : These were priced at a ridiculous INR 36000 for the plain silver works one and a INR 42000 for one with Camel bone handle at Jaipur Handicrafts on Highway No.8. Believe you me when I tell you Kuber quoted INR 12000 for the same piece. I bargained hard and got one for INR 9000. Wohooooooo. There was only one piece left in the 36" size. I would have preferred to check out a few before making the purchase, but the owner said it will take at least a month for the next stock to come in.

** Note : I have given the owner of Kuber Handicrafts my email I'd and have requested him to email me detailed photographs of existing stock and any future stock that comes in. He says I can make the deposit in his account and the sword or dagger will be couriered to my residential address. Not sure if he will really email me this, but if he does I don't mind forwarding to those interested.....

The last and final category is Sword Canes or Guptis. I saw Chinese ones selling in Ajmer and Puskar for INR 300 to INR 400.

There are basically two types available here
A) The same gun metal with silver koftagiri work. These are collapsible with each section with a threaded male part and a threaded female portion. The hidden blade fixed to the handle is about 5 inches long.

B) Non collapsible ones: This is what I brought for my boss who's fascinated by Guptis. This is basically a metal pipe cladded in leather with a brass piece below. The handle has mother of pearl cladding and has to be rotated to pull out this large about 30" long and about :alf an inch blade. The blade has saw like serrations on the spine. The workmanship on the handle , the grind on the blade could have been better. The asking price was INR 7k which I bargained and purchased for INR 6K (which ofcourse my boss will reimburse along with hopefully a promotion and a fat payrise next year .

So with a large sword, 3 large knives and a sword stick nicley packed in bubble wrap and card board I headed back to the hotel. The owner offered to courier this to my residential address at a price but having spent a large sum of money I thought it would be wise to carry it back myself not knowing the legalities involved in sending swords and Gupti's via courier service.

I was going to fly back but now with this parcel have decided to take a train back home. Reserved seats only available for Sunday, reaching Mumbai by Monday morning and have to rush back to the grind in office

Still two days to go in Rajasthan, I'm itching to travel to Udaipur and Jodhpur ( after Rajat's comment), but let's see.

P.S: What's with women and knives, my mothers seeing me buying knives ever since I was in school and what I could afford at that time with the little pocket money I had. After all these years she still acts shell shocked on seeing me holding a knife of a sword. This beautiful girl I'm seeing says she thinks I'm crazy or a goonda seeing the little Victorinox Bundeshwehr I EDC. I've been shamelessly lying to my mother telling he all these CRKT's, Spyderco's, Boker's that Bruno's been sending me are priced for INR 200 , 300 etc. I shamelessly lied when I told here " Mumma we're going to Rajasthan because you need to take some time off and get some rest". Whew its 40+ degrees here. Guess women will never understand our love for all things sharp and shiny.


Hope you've enjoyed reading the post, apolgies if you found it boring. I've got limited language skills, but really wanted to share this amazing experience with all like minded people.

Cheers.

P.S again: All these requests for photos is making me nervous. I've taken photographs using the carppy camera on my company blacberry. For Infosec reasons IT has blocked the pic and email facility. But will try and butter some one from the IT team to extract the photographs taken.

Photographs of my purchase, scanned copies of the visting cards of all stores I visited I will post some time next week.

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:27 am --

A true knife buyers travelog. Its been great reading your detailed posts. Looking forward to the pictures.

Bruno22

Thanks You Bruno. My thumbs have gotten sore typing on this little keyboard.


Glad you enjoyed readin the post.

Regards
Moin.

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:35 am --

No wonders, if you keep going around and have some diversity in your interests you will find tonnes of stuff around.

Look up Vaman Ghiya.

Sorry to go out of topic.

Yes Rajat, our countries heritage being smuggled out of the country. The Brits looted The county dry and Now these scoundrels. This case seemed similar. These are still inanimate objects, I was watching on NGC this one Tiger Skin and bone smuggler in Delhi who was caught after eluding the police for many years, forgot his name. Can't put a numer to the tigers that were killed for skins, bones and what not.

Here in Jaipur what pains me most is in the name of developemnt such beauftiful buildings are being pulled down to construct in steel and glass. The place's got such beautiful architecture.

...

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:39 am --

bookmarking this thread. awesome piece of information for knife buyers and thanks for sharing it. now waiting for the pics.

Thank you Hunterjack, glad you enjoyed reading the post. Watch this space for some pics sometime next week.

Regards
Moin.

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:47 am --

A detailed 'Knifologue' indeed !!

Inspires me to take a trip down to the lanes you've visited and have a first hand look myself... !!

Still don't have a Khanjar in my collection... all the more reason !

Thanks for posting the lovely thread...

Must visit place for a collector like yourself Olly, the only other place where I've seen so many knives and swords for sale was in Amritsar outside of Golden Temple. This was way back in college, had gone there for this intercollege design competiton 'NASA' National Association for Students of Arhitecture Had these large A0 sized plastic drawing portfolios whose drawings we had rolled and filled them with swords, Knives etc. I still have the Khukri I had purchased back then and love it to death. Man good old days


Best
Moin.

[Subal das]

I bet you are thinking about moving into Jaipur ... some time.

thanks .. great thread!!

[slingshot]

This is worthy of getting into TLC channel

Moin, you must consider a knife travelogue and film it. You have a flair for this and I have been following your exciting journey. It is almost as if this is a serial and I am looking forward to the next episode. Great going

[winnie_the_pooh]

Moin,

Nice write up.A word of caution, gupti's/sword canes are illegal to own in many parts of India.

[essdee1972]

Wow! Great post, Moin! Fantastic!

[Moin.]

I bet you are thinking about moving into Jaipur ... some time.

thanks .. great thread!!

Great place to be on vacation, away from the Mumbai downpour. The people here are so so warm and friendly. Beautiful historical builidngs, but I'm iused to Mumbai's fast paced life.


No place like home, love Amchi Mumbai, will prefer my birthplace, my Mumbai over any city in the world.

Thanks for reading the post Subal.

Regards
Moin.

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:37 pm --

This is worthy of getting into TLC channel

Moin, you must consider a knife travelogue and film it. You have a flair for this and I have been following your exciting journey. It is almost as if this is a serial and I am looking forward to the next episode. Great going

, Thanks so much Slingshot, I enjoyed the experience and sharing it here as well. We seem to be. Very much alike, hopeless romantics. I loved the way you mentioned that your " Aitor Bowieks your fondling knife" heheheh and touch and feel a Khukri like a besooted lover. ..... I'm looking forward to reading about your experience in Nepal. I'd be willing share some of my loot from Rajasthan for a prospective good quality Khukri from Nepal. .

And we are yet to meet up. Bruno was to travel to Mumbai sometime in June. Not sure what his travel plans are, but would love to meet you and Bruno over some chilled beer.

Regards
Moin.

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:46 pm --

Moin,

Nice write up.A word of caution, gupti's/sword canes are illegal to own in many parts of India.

Thanks Winnie, what's the legailty regarding sword sticks. From what I hear as long as the sword, knife, or any other edge weapon is blunt there is no issues. I have the invoice from Kuber Handicarfts saying it's a handicraft item.

Thanks Again.

Regards
Moin.

-- Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:49 pm --

Wow! Great post, Moin! Fantastic!

Thanks so much Essdee1972, glad you liked the post.

Regards
Moin.

[Bruno22]

'The Great Indian Knife and Tool Show' on TLC at 9:30 pm. Watch all your favorite knife maniacs like Moin travel to far flung destinations to look for awesome cutlery, Slingshot the eternal adventurer who field tests his blades in extreme conditions and Bruno22 the knife trader always looking at making a fast buck selling one of his 'sharp' objects. Ask all your knife questions to our in-house experts Rajat and Subal. Choombak reviews a new Spyderco every week.
Or you could buy the boxed set 'season one' at your favorite DVD store.

[Katana]

Moin,

I understand your quest for quality and historical edged weapons has taken you on a wild goose chase through Rajasthan. It was indeed heartening to read your travelogue; however, I should point to the fact that you have made two mistakes in your quest. Firstly, understand the subject thoroughly before setting out and finally interview or interact with people who have actual first hand knowledge of these articles.

Why I say this is simple. The world is one big bad place, with people out to fleece tourists (in this case you being one). Rajasthan, and to some extent Gujarat, is like a coin, with two sides to it. One, the tourism facilitating one and the other, the old cultured place it has always been. The problem is the second side. To penetrate it is next to impossible, and therein lie the treasures.

Now, all the people that you visited, like the show rooms etc. are just a 'business' for the tourism trade. In my 15 year quest for historical edged weapons I have yet to come across a craftsman with a shop. Most of the craftsmen are situated in surrounding villages around Udaipur, Jodhpur and importantly Sirohi in the Rajasthan, with some in Jamnagar, Kheralu and Rajkot in Gujarat. They in turn sell their wares to these business men, but the crux of the matter is that these people have wares made to serve the tourism trade. The idea is to find craftsmen who still service the old Rajput families. That is where the real craftsmanship lies. They can't fool those families because these swords are still used in family functions whether they be weddings or 'tikas' or pujas and to do 'loh' or 'bali'.

Moreover, most of the actual historical swords and armour is with private families and not in museums. I know of quite a few replicas that adorn museums, both private and government, where people go 'ahh' and 'ohh' and don't have the vaguest idea what the origianl looks like or where it is. Some reasons for this are the quirks of history and another is to save them from prying eyes.

Not surprisingly, craftsmen have been having a tough time making two ends meet since the past couple of decades and it is only lately that they have been receiving commissions from the old families once again. Although some techniqes have been lost, a few have been revived, like the double weld damascus (I shall post pictures of my commission soon). Meanwhile, I have had innumerable articles made, some even for members here. I am attaching photographs, please do look at them. My own collection now amounts to about 30 new swords, all faithful reproductions of historical pieces.

Arjun 001 (Small).jpg

Arjun 002 (Small).jpg

Arjun 003 (Small).jpg

Arjun 005 (Small).jpg

Arjun 006 (Small).jpg

Arjun 004 (Small).jpg

This pair was specially made for member Safarigent and his brother. Both are identical except for the engraving with their names. The blades are 'sakela' with large rosettes with silver bidri work on the hilt, chape and locket and carry over the same floral designs. Both swords are tempered and wonderfully balanced.

My next commission is a replica of a sword made for Biram Shah, Akbar's premier general, by Kulb Ali of the Agra arsenal.