Tanto Knife Design.

[Moin.]

I recently handled a Cold Steel Recon Tanto and it had me intrigued. Inspite of searching over the internet, did'nt find a satisfactory answer. What is is about the tanto design and it's blade geometry that makes is so suitable for tactical/combat use, or atleast this is how these are being marketed by companies such as Cold Steel.

The standard issue knives for most infantry units would be the kabar types 6 to 7 inch clip point blades suitable for survival and combat, more Elite special ops units would probably carry the double edge dagger style blades modeled after the FS Commando Knife for sentry take downs etc. All I have seen on TV is " The Deadliest Warrior" where a Seal Veteran with 27 years of combat experience decapitates a ballistic gel torso with a 4 inch cold Steel Recon 1 Tanto Folder. (Must See on Fox History-the deadly impact of knives and guns on Human Tissue like Ballistic Gel and Pig Torsos ) And it makes more sense really to carry a small good folder for cutting tasks when one is already armed with an assault rifle and a semi auto pistol for a side arm.

So what is it that makes the tanto geomety so suitable for combat/knife fighting purposes. Are these knives standard issue to any infantry/spec ops units around the world ?

A few of the memebers in this forum already own a recon tanto. All you knife buffs/afficinados/collectors please do shed some light on this. Subal, Rajat, Mack The Knife, Bruno, Katana !

Thank you in advance to all those contributing to this post.


Regards
Moin.

[Subal das]

tanto double tip = double cut on single slash movement. that was discussion regarding this matter long time back on bladeforums and some practical testings, final conclusion was that tanto has definite advantage as slashing weapon.

in tactical combat knife on knife stile of choice currently dominated by Filippino systems escrima, kali, pekiti pirsa ect. main strategy in this systems based on keeping distance and cutting opponent's hands. mostly slashing type of movements, so tanto quite useful. double edged knife has advantage that it can slash in both directions without turning hand.

silat concept is quite opposite, in silat only one distance considered as useful - close.

[choombak]

Adding to Subal, the Tanto design adds more strength to the blade spine, since there is more metal than any other grind. This means the blade won't break so easily - an important property in combat situations.

[Rajat]

As the guys above said.

If you look at it you will clearly make out that the Tanto blades were designed to be used as a slashing and stabbing weapon. The point or tip is designed in such a way that it stays "thick" in the middle of the blade, the spine and all the way to the tip and is strong enough for stabbing through tough things like body armour.

Now the fact is that probably when you and all of us refer to a tanto we refer mainly to the Americanized version of the tanto (like the Recon Tanto) which is a bit unlike a classic Japanese tanto and looks like:



Japanese tantos did not really have the angled tip like the american tantos. The original term did not refer as much to the blade shape or the tip as the type of knife. The Japanese tango was designed primarily for stabbing and the american tanto is a mixture of aggressive looks , tip strength etc.

This is what Benchmade has to say "TANTO: Most tantos seen on the American cutlery market are Americanized formats. Like the Japanese tanto, the Americanized tanto has a high point in-line with the pivot. A flat grind is applied to the point, leaving it very thick and extraordinarily strong. This thick area helps absorb the impact from piercing, as the tanto was originally designed for armor piercing. The front edge meets the bottom edge at an obtuse angle rather than curving to meet it as seen in the Japanese tanto. The only negative aspect of the tanto blade shape is the cutting surface area is sacrificed to gain tip strength."

Personally speaking I am not a big fan of the Americanized tanto. I prefer the drop points or similar styles. These have more utility and are functional. A tanto point blade you can use for leverage to open a box . These blades also lack the "belly"or the curves and to me this is a drawback when it comes to slashing.

I don't know if this answers your query.

So what is it that makes the tanto geomety so suitable for combat/knife fighting purposes. Are these knives standard issue to any infantry/spec ops units around the world ?

Again it depends on the style of tanto you are referring to. The fact is that a Bowie or a Ka bar is as good as a combat knife as any Tanto + they offer more utility and are graceful.

I do not know or think that the tantos are standard issue to any special ops group but a lot of double sided daggers and drop points are.

[Moin.]

tanto double tip = double cut on single slash movement. that was discussion regarding this matter long time back on bladeforums and some practical testings, final conclusion was that tanto has definite advantage as slashing weapon.

in tactical combat knife on knife stile of choice currently dominated by Filippino systems escrima, kali, pekiti pirsa ect. main strategy in this systems based on keeping distance and cutting opponent's hands. mostly slashing type of movements, so tanto quite useful. double edged knife has advantage that it can slash in both directions without turning hand.

silat concept is quite opposite, in silat only one distance considered as useful - close.

Thank You Subal, Double Tip=Double cut, that's intersting to know. Is silat a weapons based martial art ? I see the logo in your profile pic, do you practice Silat ? I had seen a video long back by Israel Defence Forces. IDF on knife fighting, seems quite the opposite to the eastern style of knife fighting, like the difference between kung fu and Krav Magaa .

-- Tue May 31, 2011 11:07 pm --

Adding to Subal, the Tanto design adds more strength to the blade spine, since there is more metal than any other grind. This means the blade won't break so easily - an important property in combat situations.

Thank you Amar, interesting to know how blade geometry and designs have evolved over time. More metal at the tip for stabbing through possible armour etc and a nice belly for those slashing nasty cuts. Pure form follows function.


Regards
Moin.

-- Tue May 31, 2011 11:21 pm --

As the guys above said.

If you look at it you will clearly make out that the Tanto blades were designed to be used as a slashing and stabbing weapon. The point or tip is designed in such a way that it stays "thick" in the middle of the blade, the spine and all the way to the tip and is strong enough for stabbing through tough things like body armour.

Now the fact is that probably when you and all of us refer to a tanto we refer mainly to the Americanized version of the tanto (like the Recon Tanto) which is a bit unlike a classic Japanese tanto and looks like:

[ Image ]

Japanese tantos did not really have the angled tip like the american tantos. The original term did not refer as much to the blade shape or the tip as the type of knife. The Japanese tango was designed primarily for stabbing and the american tanto is a mixture of aggressive looks , tip strength etc.

This is what Benchmade has to say "TANTO: Most tantos seen on the American cutlery market are Americanized formats. Like the Japanese tanto, the Americanized tanto has a high point in-line with the pivot. A flat grind is applied to the point, leaving it very thick and extraordinarily strong. This thick area helps absorb the impact from piercing, as the tanto was originally designed for armor piercing. The front edge meets the bottom edge at an obtuse angle rather than curving to meet it as seen in the Japanese tanto. The only negative aspect of the tanto blade shape is the cutting surface area is sacrificed to gain tip strength."

Personally speaking I am not a big fan of the Americanized tanto. I prefer the drop points or similar styles. These have more utility and are functional. A tanto point blade you can use for leverage to open a box . These blades also lack the "belly"or the curves and to me this is a drawback when it comes to slashing.

I don't know if this answers your query.

So what is it that makes the tanto geomety so suitable for combat/knife fighting purposes. Are these knives standard issue to any infantry/spec ops units around the world ?

Again it depends on the style of tanto you are referring to. The fact is that a Bowie or a Ka bar is as good as a combat knife as any Tanto + they offer more utility and are graceful.

I do not know or think that the tantos are standard issue to any special ops group but a lot of double sided daggers and drop points are.

Thank you Rajat, I see. Please do share some good links you find on the subjtect. Fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

Best Moin.

[Subal das]

yes silat based on edged weapons mostly. proliferation of silat and fillipino martial arts changed the whole scene of tactical combat in western countries in and Russia too, and how police operate on streets.

different distances for martial artist does not make much sense any more, because people shot first and asking which martial arts you been trained later. plus tactical advances in hand gun handling leave very little chances to guy with knife. Russians for example have a technique when they will fall down on their back, with legs toward attacker and shoot. reducing target for attacker and great stable shooting position ... great technique. Americans have speed rock technique, in close distance move your head and uppeer torso backward and shot from hip.

so, if you are good with hand gun there is very little space for martial arts to be used with success against you.

of course knife is great and extremely dangerous weapon, but skilled gunman will kill skilled knife man in most situation.

[Subal das]

missed that point about Krav Maga and easter systems. Any system historically evolving in specific environment, in east in Countries like China and Burma people were skilled in knife, that was necessary and training was a part of normal daily life in villages. Because their adversary were skilled too, as result of real life fights the whole system evolve. In fact martial arts of Naga Land was so effective that British rulers prohibited local people to practicing it.

Same with Israel, in recent world history no any army has such experience in urban hand to hand combat as Israeli. They are facing treats from individuals with particular skills and their system tailored to deal with that. Krav Maga simple and very effective real life system, everybody must learn, no excuse. It is great for Indian scenario, because Krav Maga train to deal with these kind of treats which most likely you can face here in India.