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What would you do in a situation like this ?

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hvj1
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What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby hvj1 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:06 pm

Hello Friends,
Its been a very long time since I started a new topic, this one is prompted by 'An absolute classic' posted by Shooter50. It was actually Marksman's comment which got me thinking of the situation where a shikari takes a shot at a man eating tiger who is chasing a young girl.I would like to know WHAT YOU WILL DO IN THE SAME SITUATION? I am outlining the 'situation' below for greater clarity;
THE SITUATION:

1. There is a man eating tiger at large, experienced trackers have ascertained that his lair is in an old temple on a mountain outside the village. The trackers have stumbled upon a trail which the said tiger frequents whenever it comes down or goes back to his lair. The trail passes below a small hillock and is the only place where the tiger is exposed for about 25 metres with absolutely no cover. The trail then reaches a very dense forest which verges on the village, where the tiger has made a few kills.

2. The tiger does not take animal bait, several attempts have proved to be futile. However there is a small girl who is willing to sit in the middle of the above mentioned trail.

3. Your best position to take a shot at the tiger, is on top of the small hillock hill, below which the above mentioned trail passes. You have an unobstructed 180 degree view below of a normal flat terrain with no cover (i.e. no tall grass, no shrubbery, no large stones). The distance from your spot to the flat terrain below is not more than 10 meters or the height of a single story house.

2. Next assume that you have a 30-06 rifle ( or any other big game caliber rifle) with a five round magazine. It is fully loaded. You do not have a telescope, you have to use open sights only.

3. You are fairly comfortable, a small thatched roof cuts of the suns glare, assume that it is noon and the sun is roughly overhead.

4. Now you are confronted with the situation that in order to kill the tiger you will have to use the girl as the bait, so now imagine that a small 10 year old girl dressed in village clothes, ghagra choli is running from left to right in a straight line perpendicular to your position, on the open terrain below your hillock. The distance between you and the running girl is roughly 50 metres, The girl will be chased by a supposed man eater, the distance between the girl and the tiger is roughly 25 metres and will close very fast. It will take roughly 4-5 seconds for the tiger to cover the gap.
You have a clear field of fire.

Regardless of your experience , What would you do?



SMJ
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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby SMJ » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:48 pm

Dear Hvj1,

It is indeed a fantastic question. Do I have to assume that the circumstances you have mentioned above are absolute? I have read and re read KA and Corbett but have never even hunted a rat so far :lol:
Anyway I ask this because if I were a hunter, then I would prefer to lure the tiger using an artificial human doll dressed up in traditional village clothes. Or at worst sit there as bait myself dressed in traditonal clothes but with a loaded rifle.

Assuming the circumstances you mentioned are absolutely final, I would have to say that unless I was a renowned shot like yourself sir :D , NO I would not take such a risk of shooting a tiger for 2 reasons:-

1. The obvious one being the chance of hitting the girl by mistake as one possibility
2. A complete miss for both, or even worse wounding the tiger. If the tiger is wounded, it will tend to be even more cautious in the process securing more kills and making it that much harder for the hunter.

Frankly, it was a fun read but I did not relish the circumstances and the fact the gentlemen decided to use a 10 year old girl as bait :shock: He may have been an excellent shot but even so he was very very lucky to have made the kill. This is a personal opinion, not trying to deride the writer of the said story.



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby ngrewal » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:34 pm

HVJ1 and SMJ
Great scenarios like SMJ said I dont ever recall any hunting story where human beings were used as bait. Actually Jim Corbett and others made all the effort that their crew were always safe and sound..neither its ethically all right is against ethos of hunting...then every fisherman and hunter likes to spin the tale to make it fantastic..this is what I presume he did. Only other picture or story I know of with similar situation is Lions of Tsavo and even there these shooters were secured in a jail type place so they shoot at the lions.



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:47 pm

Using a human bait is a very bad idea. Anyways trying your best to take a shot to hit the tiger is the best option because if you do not kill the tiger, the tiger will certainly kill the human bait or may even kill you. Also regardless of whether tiger is man eater or not, such an attempt would be well within your legal right of self defense/ private defense.


All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche

hvj1
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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby hvj1 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:07 pm

Do I have to assume that the circumstances you have mentioned above are absolute?


No SMJ, they are not. :D

Assuming the circumstances you mentioned are absolutely final, I would have to say that unless I was a renowned shot like yourself sir :D ,


I obtained the renowned shot category by shooting at paper targets :lol: thankfully not shooting tigers, that too man eating ones. :shock:


NO I would not take such a risk of shooting a tiger for 2 reasons:-

1. The obvious one being the chance of hitting the girl by mistake as one possibility
2. A complete miss for both, or even worse wounding the tiger. If the tiger is wounded, it will tend to be even more cautious in the process securing more kills and making it that much harder for the hunter.

Frankly, it was a fun read but I did not relish the circumstances and the fact the gentlemen decided to use a 10 year old girl as bait :shock: He may have been an excellent shot but even so he was very very lucky to have made the kill. This is a personal opinion, not trying to deride the writer of the said story.



I completely agree with you on all the above points, thanks for taking part in the discussion. :cheers:

Added in 4 minutes 17 seconds:
Ngrewal
neither its ethically all right is against ethos of hunting...then every fisherman and hunter likes to spin the tale to make it fantastic..this is what I presume he did.


Yes, that could be it.



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby airgun_novice » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:53 pm

Dear hvj1,

Why this more than necessary interest in "wearing traditional clothes" angle ? Will a man-eater spare me if I wear jeans and a tee and splash Old Spice on my clean shaven face ? :-) There are two ways I would tackle this problem. Of course assumption here is that my inexperience and immaturity are all forgiven by you (a man-eater may not show that leniency).

I. Surely the first idea but first a question - When the girl runs from left to right (wrt moi) where is she starting to run from ? Obviously from a site which is beyond my line of sight, n'est-ce pas ? So it is a HUGE RISK putting the girl so far beyond immediate protection coverage. Which means the girl must be somewhere in that 25m strip. Funny thing then - why would the maneater creep or run all the way into that 25m strip ? When instead it can pounce on its prey anywhere in that range if it were to be say 10-30m above it and guess where the man-eater ends up ? Precisely where I am glued to ironsights hoping for a spilt second sighting-reaction-aiming-shooting and hoping to kill with a 5 round mag. With or without the shot placement through the tiger there is enough chance of it mauling the girl, though I won't end up shooting her. So what would my solution be ? TWO shooters on that hillock. The other to guard my back in case the beast outflanks me atop there and continue to shoot at the beast even if it were down there in case it rears and abandons the girl or carries her off in its jaws. By extension of this plot I would replace the girl myself in my comfy shooting attire and have that gun and yet place that shooter atop that hillock not aiming down but at the possible "climb" of the beast. He could turn his attention down should I start shooting.

2. The second scenario which I personally would prefer is the use of multiple guns and a climb up to that temple which would be abandoned in any case tracking the spoor and waylaying the man-eater en route or in the temple perimeter since it has now become an animal of habits which I see is its sole weak point at the moment. It would reduce or zero out unarmed villager casualty and give a fair chance of knockout since it's a tiger and not a leopard which not only is more intelligent (and much more so as a man-eater) than a tiger but uses the third dimension of height and sprinting prowess better than a tiger. Of course study of the hill-temple geography and locale would also come first.

3. Third choice - "May Day May Day - SOS SOS hvj1"... :stupid:

regs
A.



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby Steve007 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:34 am

If circumstances are not absolute, I would bring a friend with me who is a noted shot, and give him the honour of slaying the tiger. Perhaps Vikram. I'd have a gun with me, though. Just in case..



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby hvj1 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:20 am

AGN
Pretty pithy stuff you have dished out, nothing that I can add to or subtract....

Added in 24 minutes 42 seconds:
Steve007 wrote:If circumstances are not absolute, I would bring a friend with me who is a noted shot, and give him the honour of slaying the tiger. Perhaps Vikram. I'd have a gun with me, though. Just in case..


Yes, I would prefer to take a magnum revolver for quick close work...

And since the conditions are not absolute, I would call upon Corbett himself as my second or rather first, wouldn't you say. Well the conditions are not 'absolute' :mrgreen:

Added in 17 minutes 35 seconds:
Now considering the conditions are not 'absolute', why don't we consider the situation from the point of view of the tiger itself eh?

Situation 2

The tiger is strolling back on the trail which leads him to his liar, he burps gently and casts his eyes over a hillock which has him worried every time he crosses it. And lo and behold what does he see? There sitting under a makeshift leanto , he spies a couple of humans lying prone. "Hmmm...just as I thought" (imagine Sher Khan from Jungle Book) he says to himself while bellying down on the rutted earth. He proceeds to turn the situation around his feline mind...he notices that one is pointed north, the other is pointed south..."Well, well, well! How interesting ? He continues in his baritone. He chuckles evilly and decides to teach them both a lesson. Slithering along the side of the hillock, he crawls up the hillock from the EAST. He flattens his ears as his eyes rise above the rim of the hillock... "Aaah! he exclaims very softly, to his utter delight he finds his line of approach places him precisely between the two... who are now only 15 meters away from him. "Hmm...so we have been reading a lot of Corbett now haven't we... he says to himself as he surveys the two earnest worthies...

What will the tiger and the hunters do next? :mrgreen:



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby Rudransh » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:35 am

Dear all
I am going to say what I would do and still will that tiger alright.
1.First I will dig a safe den between girl and me like 5mtrs the den will be well protected with strong iron bars and with a opening ilby which a 10years girl can enter not a tiger at any circumstances.

2.i will tell girl to run in that cage rather than running towards me which is very closer to her position.will save a lot of crucial seconds.

3.so now when girl is in cage and tiger is in open hell yeah now my rifle will take a single heart or lung shot and I kill that man-eater .

Other than that I will give a great to wear a whirl for few week after few days it will contains the scent of girl and then I will use that dress on a doll to lure out that beast.its very smart and safer.

3.But if hunter were me I will do this ,tiger is man eater right and I am a man so I will make bait of my self and see who is more faster but again that's me.

Regards
Veerbhadra



hvj1
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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby hvj1 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:08 pm

Veerbhadra
3.But if hunter were me I will do this ,tiger is man eater right and I am a man so I will make bait of my self and see who is more faster but again that's me.


One thing I can say for you, is that you have a decent imagination. :cheers:

Added in 6 minutes 19 seconds:
Last I read this topic, I saw 309 views and I am wondering how is it that only 4 gents have replied. Heck it really doesn't matter whether you have hunted or not, or even if you have ever fired a big game rifle.
The point that I am trying to make is How many of you CARE or BOTHER to even think out of the box! But that is neither here nor there...



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby airgun_novice » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:10 am

Since the tiger approaches at 90 degrees to both the shooters, he is spotted from the corner of the eye by both who turn around towards East and go "baam" :skeet: ! In any case good hunters will have good ideas like having a twig-strewn back which would go "twak" when Shersingh steps on that hillock. But I still don't see why triangulation of fire can not be executed within the temple perimeter.

regs
A.



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby hvj1 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:00 am

Okay so BAAm, what if both miss?



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby airgun_novice » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:04 am

hvj1 wrote:Okay so BAAm, what if both miss?


If amidst 10 bullets (2 mags) they both miss at 15m - well, they deserve to be gobbled/ mauled/ scared for life. ROTFL

But sir, remember one of them is "you" as in *ME* - so no chances of missing the man-eater here. And of course the second shooter chosen in the fantasy narrative would be "you" as in YOU with an extra trustworthy Magnum - :cheers: is the only way the story will end. :lol:

Or since we are at where humans blink and tigers think type of story - why not punch in a board that says "Remember what happened to the horse who "stuck" to his *craziness* ? We plan to set up a TIGER BALM factory now". :roll: :lol:

OK jokes aside, Put an empty coffin like box there with a notice that says "I am thinking out of box - space inside; loaded guns outside".

Gosh ! I really am in the weeds and floating atop the clouds.... ;-) Enough of dry fire !



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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby sam 47 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:09 pm

Hvj1, sir I hope you don't mind my posting here as I have only hunted small game/varmin with air rifles and don't even have an arms license.
As the tiger comes out chasing as the girl starts running, it is therefore safe to assume it is holed up inside the temple, so a well organized beat may force him out. The tiger may charge the beaters , but a 100 shouting men have a better chance of survival than a 10 year old girl running for life.
Next depending on the season it may also be possible to lure it out by calling the tiger with the sound of a potential mate.
The third option would be to go in with a rifle capable of stopping a charge like a .458 Lott and go in and try settle scores by going in at close quarters .As Corbett said I would pray a few ounces of lead would stop few hundred pounds of powerful muscle and bone , but if I cannot protect myself with one of the most powerful rifles how can I expect to protect a 10 year old unarmed girl?
The problem with cages is no hunter carry cages with them, and while procuring or making one in the village the tiger will not wait for me, it will change position and probably kill elsewhere, surely it wouldn't wait to duel with me would it?
My question to you hvj1 sir is a maneater that too one that doesn't accept animal baits must have survived many trials of shikaris. Wouldn't it choose a less wary target like a man working in a field or women cutting grass rather than an alert prey which has already started running? They are all ambush predators as far as I know.
And why should it come out as soon as I am comfortably seated and the girl starts running? It may choose to come out at any instance it pleases , right?
This is just what I was thinking and mean no offence to anyone


"Aim small, miss small."

You may not like guns, and choose not to own one. That is your right. You might not believe in God. That is your choice. However, if someone breaks into your home the first two things you're going to do are: 1) Call someone with a gun. 2) Pray they get there in time.

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Re: What would you do in a situation like this ?

Postby SMJ » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:04 pm

I obtained the renowned shot category by shooting at paper targets thankfully not shooting tigers, that too man eating ones. :shock:

Sure Hvj1 sir but on a serious note shot placement in this case would be key. I believe a renowned shot has a MUCH better chance even though it is moving target being shot and not a still one. However as you pointed out hunting tigers and that too man eaters definitely also calls for more skill sets than merely a calm mind and an being excellent shot. The lay of the land, the type of jungle being hunted in, selection of the weapon and habits of jungle creatures (alarm calls etc) would also play an equally vital role.

Since you say the circumstances are not absolute I also wonder why an animal bait was not used or tried and why the straight jump to a human being? The ideal thing would be to sit over the remains of a human kill to which a tiger should normally return unless of course he has in the past been wounded when returning to a kill (human or animal).However nothing of the sort has been stated in the story so I wonder what reason the writer with his experience could have of not even trying an animal bait?

A beat as suggested by Sam47 could also be a great idea!

I am also hoping for an answer by one of our IFG members who has actual experience in these matters, it would be extremely exciting to see what he would do in such a situation :)




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