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The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

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brihacharan
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby brihacharan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:02 pm

Just came across this write-up....IMHO it's worth going through its contents!
HUNTING AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION GO HAND IN HAND
Michigan Department of Natural Resources
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-15 ... --,00.html
Image

How does hunting contribute to wildlife conservation? Hunters help conserve and manage wildlife in three ways:
1.Hunting is an important management tool. For many wildlife species, hunting helps to maintain populations at levels compatible with human activity, land use and available habitat. For example, hunting helps limit deer browse in agricultural areas and deer-car collisions. Hunting may also help your garden from getting eaten by deer.

2.Hunters pay for the bulk of wildlife conservation across the country through the PR Act, established in 1937, this act created an excise tax on guns, ammunition, bows, arrows and other hunting-related equipment. This money is then apportioned to state wildlife agencies based on the land area and the number of licensed hunters of each state. These funds are matched by state hunting license fees. PR ensures that money from hunting license sales can only be used for wildlife management – for projects such as conducting research, wildlife reintroductions and improving wildlife habitat. These projects benefit a wide range of species, including animals that aren't hunted. In Michigan, hunters pay for approximately 80 percent of the Department of Natural Resources' wildlife management.

3.Hunters have banded together through local sportsmen's clubs and national organizations to raise funds for conservation, buy and conserve private lands for wildlife habitat, partner with state and federal agencies on large-scale conservation, and lobby for laws and policies that benefit wildlife. Groups like Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever support and conduct conservation and restoration efforts across a wide range of habitats, throughout Michigan and the country.

So thank a hunter you know for helping to conserve wildlife that paves the way for maintaining an ecological balance.
Briha



Rajat
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Rajat » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:40 pm

At least someone knew in 2014 that there was a lion named Cecil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUeDrUOmHvw



Commonwealth_of_PA
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Commonwealth_of_PA » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:19 pm

I think all of the different opinions expressed here on this subject are reasonable ones. Even though there is disagreement, the positions are thoughtful and based on honorable principles.

There are definitely people that hunt to eat in the US. There are people that hunt to eat because it is more affordable than buying meat for their family. There are people that must hunt to eat, and some have chosen this lifestyle but most were born into it. There are many people in the US that are very poor in money but live happy, independent, fulfilling lives. There are other people that hunt for sport but lose a job and then hunting becomes a full time job until the freezer is full or until the smoker is full if they have no freezer.

I have a friend who chopped ~ 10 cords of firewood for sale over the winter and made ~ $1000. He used that $1000 to buy chicken feed, some new chickens, seed, and part for his tractor, and pay his property taxes. The majority of people make $1000 in a week. Trust me, this guy wants to get a deer every winter. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he had to get one during the summer. I am never going to tell the guy that there is plenty of neatly packaged meat in the grocery store for his family.

As far as preservation and wildlife management are concerned, I am not a hunter nor am I an expert. But I do have an interesting anecdote. We had Russian hybrid feral hogs start showing up here in Pennsylvania about 20 years ago. The Pennsylvania Game Commission refused to admit their presence for about 15 years. Why would they do this? Because they wanted them dead. And they knew if they admitted they were here, the hunters would make it impossible to exterminate them :) Isn't that ironic? They finally ran out of options and had to admit their presence. Going from memory, I think they said they would refuse their mandate to manage the wildlife because they considered them invasive. And instead instructed hunters to kill them if they were observed during a hunt and simply report the kill.



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xl_target
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby xl_target » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:04 pm

I'd like to repeat an article that I recently read:
Top seven things I like about Internet Shame mobs.
7) Initial news reports are always completely accurate, so we know we've got the right guy.
6) Initial news reports are always full of nuance, so we know that we understand the situation and can distinguish sarcasm from seriousness, and being nearby from being the active participant.
5) Internet shame mobs weigh the evidence carefully and deliberately before attacking, so they only happen to people who deserve them.
4) Internet shame mobs use the rule of law and due process, so when they occur by accident or to the wrong person it's easy for them to make amends and restore reputations, jobs, and friendships.
3) Internet shame mobs always make sure that the punishment is proportional to the crime.
2) Every member of an internet shame mob is without sin, so any one of them is morally just in throwing the first stone.
1) Once the internet shame mob has done its job, the button will be be offered to someone whom you don't know.


I'd also like to add a couple more:
8. There are only two sides to any issue; The Right Side and The Wrong Side. Nothing else matters and I say which is the Right side. Anyone who disagrees is a terrorist and should be lined up against a wall and shot.
9. If you disagree, or defend the accused in any way, you are wrong and an idiot or a terrorist and should be lined up against a wall and shot.
10. If you say; "we should wait for all the facts", you are wrong and as guilty as the accused and therefore a terrorist and should be lined up against a wall and shot.
11. If a celebrity takes up the cause you must listen and agree immediately because we all know that celebrities have expert knowledge and are always correct about whatever issue they talk about. Anyone who disagrees with them is a terrorist and should be lined up against a wall and shot.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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xl_target
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby xl_target » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:18 pm

As far as preservation and wildlife management are concerned, I am not a hunter nor am I an expert. But I do have an interesting anecdote. We had Russian hybrid feral hogs start showing up here in Pennsylvania about 20 years ago. The Pennsylvania Game Commission refused to admit their presence for about 15 years. Why would they do this? Because they wanted them dead. And they knew if they admitted they were here, the hunters would make it impossible to exterminate them :) Isn't that ironic?


If the Dept of Natural Resources (what they are called in MN) admits that they have a certain animal in the state, they then have to come up with a management program for that animal.
For many years, up in Northern Minnesota, the DNR refused to admit that there were Wolves in the state. "Just wild or feral Dogs", "shoot them on sight" was the general advice to hunters. In fact there is a law on the books that specifically said that dogs chasing deer can be shot on sight, even if they appear to be domestic dogs. When Wolf numbers got so high that they had to admit to their presence, they then had to come up with a sustainability program and set quotas for a hunt.
That is why in many states, where Cougar sightings are on the rise, the State's conservation officials will insist that there there are no Cougars in their state or that they are just "passing through".


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

Commonwealth_of_PA
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Commonwealth_of_PA » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:29 pm

xl_target wrote:
As far as preservation and wildlife management are concerned, I am not a hunter nor am I an expert. But I do have an interesting anecdote. We had Russian hybrid feral hogs start showing up here in Pennsylvania about 20 years ago. The Pennsylvania Game Commission refused to admit their presence for about 15 years. Why would they do this? Because they wanted them dead. And they knew if they admitted they were here, the hunters would make it impossible to exterminate them :) Isn't that ironic?


If the Dept of Natural Resources (what they are called in MN) admits that they have a certain animal in the state, they then have to come up with a management program for that animal.
For many years, up in Northern Minnesota, the DNR refused to admit that there were Wolves in the state. "Just wild or feral Dogs", "shoot them on sight" was the general advice to hunters. In fact there is a law on the books that specifically said that dogs chasing deer can be shot on sight, even if they appear to be domestic dogs.


Pennsylvania:

§ 459-501. Killing dogs; dogs as nuisances

(a) Legal to kill certain dogs.--Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such a dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act. There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing.

§ 2384. Declaring dogs public nuisances

Any dog pursuing or following upon the track of any big game animal in such close pursuit as to endanger the big game animal or to be in the act of attacking the big game animal at any time is hereby declared to be a public nuisance and may be destroyed as provided in this title.



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xl_target
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby xl_target » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:19 pm

Something else to chew on, if nothing else but to see what properly applied conservation techniques can do.
It is hard to argue with success.

Image

Image


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

Commonwealth_of_PA
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Commonwealth_of_PA » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:38 am

Which Cabelas is that? Pennsylvania has the big one. Sells more guns every year than any place in the universe.



winnie_the_pooh
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby winnie_the_pooh » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:14 am

Interesting.... those who condemn the American dentist for what he did,do not feel the need to comment on the death threats to chap.


Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.

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xl_target
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby xl_target » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:28 am

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:Which Cabelas is that? Pennsylvania has the big one. Sells more guns every year than any place in the universe.

That is in Owatonna, MN

Interesting.... those who condemn the American dentist for what he did,do not feel the need to comment on the death threats to chap.

Winnie, you can't expect logic from a lynch mob, I guess.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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brihacharan
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby brihacharan » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:09 pm

I came across this picture on the net....
Look closely & you can see a collar around the 'Tiger's Neck' :shock:
Image
Briha



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kshitij
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Location: Navi Mumbai

Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby kshitij » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:40 pm

Brihaji, i doubt Putin is posing with a collared tiger he just killed. It rather looks like a conservation effort and the animal looks tranquilised not dead :D


Lock, Stock and Barrel.

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Kumarnishith
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Kumarnishith » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:41 pm

At times pics are deceptive..Kshitij is right..The collared Siberian tiger was apparently released into wild by Putin in May last year! It was a conservation effort and not a case of leisure hunting by Mr. President...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29551153

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/11/world ... .html?_r=0



-Nishith



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Hammerhead
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Hammerhead » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:31 am

What Lion ????

http://news.yahoo.com/lion-zimbabweans- ... _trk=t%20w

HARARE (Reuters) - As social media exploded with outrage this week at the killing of Cecil the lion, the untimely passing of the celebrated predator at the hands of an American dentist went largely unnoticed in the animal's native Zimbabwe.

"What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.

The government has still given no formal response, and on Thursday the papers that chose to run the latest twist in the Cecil saga tucked it away on inside pages.

One title had to rely on foreign news agency copy because it failed to send a reporter to the court appearance of two locals involved.

In contrast, the previous evening 200 people stood in protest outside the suburban Minneapolis dental practice of 55-year-old Walter Palmer, calling for him to be extradited to Zimbabwe to face charges of taking part in an illegal hunt.

Local police are also investigating death threats against Palmer, whose location is not known. Because many of the threats were online, police are having difficulty determining their origins and credibility.

Palmer, a lifelong big game hunter, has admitted killing Cecil with a bow and arrow on July 1 near Zimbabwe's Hwange national park, but said he had hired professional local guides with the required hunting permits and believed the hunt was legal.

For most people in the southern African nation, where unemployment tops 80 percent and the economy continues to feel the after-effects of billion percent hyperinflation a decade ago, the uproar had all the hallmarks of a 'First World Problem'.

"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"

As with many countries in Africa, in Zimbabwe big wild animals such as lions, elephants or hippos are seen either as a potential meal, or a threat to people and property that needs to be controlled or killed.

The world of Palmer, who paid $50,000 to kill 13-year-old Cecil, is a very different one from that inhabited by millions of rural Africans who are more than occasionally victims of wild animal attacks.

According to CrocBITE, a database, from January 2008 to October 2013, there were more than 460 recorded attacks by Nile crocodiles, most of them fatal. That tally is almost certainly a massive underrepresentation.

[b]"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."[/b]

(Additional reporting by Ed Stoddard in Johannesburg; Editing by Ed Cropley and Giles Elgood)
Last edited by Hammerhead on Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Oggie
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Re: The killing of Cecil, the beloved lion!

Postby Oggie » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:43 am

This is a touchy topic indeed. Being a hunter myself I have an opinion on this and I'd like to share the same. To me hunting is something I enjoy. It's as much about the planning and being outdoors as it's about the actual kill. Most hunts are armed treks anyway ! However I do have an opinion on hunting Lions. It's an opinion not a judgement. I cannot see the fun in hunting another predator. It just does not seem natural to me. Deer, Pigs etc that are traditional prey animals I have no problem hunting but cats - really ? Having said this and being a hunter one must accept that there is a part of a hunter that likes the thrill and danger associated with a hunt. This is obviously accentuated when hunting a big predator like a lion. In this case I'd have a great deal of respect for a hunter armed with a spear or perhaps even a bow and arrow tracking a big cat alone in it's territory. No guides, no back up rifles, no quad bikes or 4WD support....just the hunter and the hunted. Totally alone in the wild in the Lion's territory. Now that would be a true contest or would it ?




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