Indians For Guns

nagarifle wrote:culled means to control the animal population, this is not hunting
its a technical term for hunting

right said naga!!

This is disgusting...I mean...there are more "bloodless" ways to control population of wildlife..if it is the actual problem..What next?? Govt. will legalize murder or "Human Hunting" to control exploding human population??? and is it a "sport"?? c'mon...whats so sporty about it??the blood??the scream??or the painful last moment of the animal???

adityang wrote:This is disgusting...I mean...there are more "bloodless" ways to control population of wildlife..if it is the actual problem..What next?? Govt. will legalize murder or "Human Hunting" to control exploding human population??? and is it a "sport"?? c'mon...whats so sporty about it??the blood??the scream??or the painful last moment of the animal???

Know of a better way to control vermin?

Isnt pigeon hunting legal?Edited-Moderator

king234 wrote:Isnt pigeon hunting legal? .

No its not, recently some kids got caught in Mumbai killing pigeons with a catty and selling them to Chinese food stalls to be used in chicken dishes .

They were charged with cruelty towards animals and sent to juvenile house. You can't shoot anything apart from Crows and Rats in INDIA (If you leave crop protection permits aside)

Here is the link: http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2 ... geons.html

-Inder

MoA wrote:

adityang wrote:This is disgusting...I mean...there are more "bloodless" ways to control population of wildlife..if it is the actual problem..What next?? Govt. will legalize murder or "Human Hunting" to control exploding human population??? and is it a "sport"?? c'mon...whats so sporty about it??the blood??the scream??or the painful last moment of the animal???

Know of a better way to control vermin?

Which one?? is nilghai considered vermin??

adityang wrote:This is disgusting...I mean...there are more "bloodless" ways to control population of wildlife..if it is the actual problem..What next?? Govt. will legalize murder or "Human Hunting" to control exploding human population??? and is it a "sport"?? c'mon...whats so sporty about it??the blood??the scream??or the painful last moment of the animal???

What are the bloodless ways of controlling exploding populations of certain species, if I may ask?

While I understand your views, if you try to look beyond the emotional dimension(I am not saying it's irrelevant) and come up with scientifically and economically viable alternatives to this problem, please share with us.

You cannot compare human population control methods to animals.I think you would appreciate the practical difficulties with it.

Best-
Vikram

This is disgusting...I mean...there are more "bloodless" ways to control population of wildlife..if it is the actual problem..

Please observe the nature, it has not ensured any "bloodless" ways to keep any population under control by ensuring the following:
a) death by carnivorous animals like lions, tigers, cheetahs, leopards, wolves etc. and also infighting.
b) death by suffering of drought, winter, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes and other natural/seasonal calamities
c) death by suffering of disease and crippling old age

What next?? Govt. will legalize murder or "Human Hunting" to control exploding human population??? and is it a "sport"?? c'mon...whats so sporty about it??

The day human civilization started tinkering with ways of nature by providing effective health-care to reduce human mortality, the problem of population explosion started. Compare the mortality rate of human population say 500 years ago with the present day. In olden days women used to give birth to around 10-15 babies during their lifetime, hardly 3 or 4 used to survive to adulthood, and hardly any adult used to survive beyond the age of 35-45 years. Hence the human population was also under the "control" and "care" of nature. So tell the lawmakers(M.P.s/M.L.A.s) to either ensure complete halt of any medical care to reduce the human mortality or vigorously enforce birth control measures(regardless of what the respective vote-banks in their constituencies have to say).

the blood??the scream??or the painful last moment of the animal???

Please go to the jungle and see how the nature has ensured the death of animals. Is it not "the blood??the scream??or the painful last moment of the animal???" Even if you observe the last moment of humans, in spite of all the medical care, in most cases it is painful and difficult.

Vikram wrote: What are the bloodless ways of controlling exploding populations of certain species, if I may ask?

While I understand your views, if you try to look beyond the emotional dimension(I am not saying it's irrelevant) and come up with scientifically and economically viable alternatives to this problem, please share with us.

You cannot compare human population control methods to animals.I think you would appreciate the practical difficulties with it.

Best-
Vikram

Hunting is one of the ineffective ways of pest control. Scientific way is to understand "why" pest suddenly exploded, it will most probably because of sudden availability of food sources and/or removal of carnivours that depend on them. Much success has been achieved by sterilization (for bigger animals) and other biological controls. Unless you address the "why" portion, you will only be solving symptoms, which will keep on repeating.

Dude even if you go in for a vasectomy & Tuber.... there is blood involved so there is no bloodless way as such
/s/

@goodboy_mentor,

I really did not get your point. Animals die naturally, may be with lot of suffering. But does it mean that we should go and shoot them?? Nature doesn't have life, feeling etc etc... and it is not an entity at all. But we are not nature.. we are humans and call ourselves civilized. And in the last, you quoted me partially. My question was why hunting is called "sport"? Wouldn't it be great if we, humans, do not induce more suffering to these animals and ourselves??
No need to go to jungle for me...because I "live" in it...we have suffered equally, if not more, that of other farmers, from Gaurs invading our lands. But I will not support hunting them at any cost...that's just too insane and inhuman...
If you don't believe it, watch this video-


-- Tue Mar 30, 2010 22:47 --

snIPer wrote:Dude even if you go in for a vasectomy & Tuber.... there is blood involved so there is no bloodless way as such
/s/

but for argument sake, there are methods of sterilization which doesn't involve blood at all. Irradiation has worked well on insects...they are even drugs available which once injected can cause sterilization...

Aditya, I again understand where you are coming from.But, do you have any tangible argument/alternative/suggestion to offer? Thank you.

Best-
Vikram

dear aditya ng,

1)please read zillion posts first before asking the question why hunting? blood?scream? etc etc if u still dont find the answer, please come back and post and we will be happy to discuss.

2) why vermin? very good question..... we either know the answer or we need to find out. if we need to find out, the research will take years, in the meanwhile who suffers? the farmer?
If we already know the answer, like deforestation etc etc, then again it will take decades to solve this problems if at all, so in the short term.....
3) i dont blame you for being an armchair consvationist. hunting has been banned for so long, most indians' exposure is to poaching disguised as hunting.
4) for eg australian rabbit: big pest problem. lets go down your route: find the reason. reason is british introduces an alien species to the land which proliferated and are now a pest.

what should we try? sterilise 100 million rabbits? let them continue to multiply? introduce more alien species like dingo dogs who decimated other native smaller animals? or shoot them?

same for grey squirrel in the uk. now the native red is endangered.

i would really appreciate your suggestion as the best minds and forest officials etc have come up no other solution.

do u eat meat? or are you a vegetarian?

adityang wrote:@goodboy_mentor,
we are humans and call ourselves civilized. ...

Who told you shooting or killing something is un-civilized behavior?

Vikram wrote:Aditya, I again understand where you are coming from.But, do you have any tangible argument/alternative/suggestion to offer? Thank you.

Best-
Vikram

That's what I suggested. For "vermins" like nilghai, instead of hunting, u can sterilize the bull nilghai. This will be much more effective than hunting. This is actually experience from city stray dogs. Earlier (even now in most cases) they use to kill all dogs.. but with in no time, population would reach again same level. This is because, since the source of food (garbage) was intact, dogs from other area would soon fill the vacuum. But if you sterilize the alpha male, population will be under control (no addition and natural attrition). Alpha male will not allow any new dog to join pack and guard it's territory. Since it will still be dominant for 3-4 yrs min, population will be under control.
Another way in the case of nilghai is to introduce natural predators and protect them from "poaching", but this is not without risk if area is densely populated.
Building barricades/fences/electrified (D.C,may even be solar powered, not deadly) can limit animal's access to food source and protect crop. Once crops are protected, who cares about population of nilghai????
Electric fencing is working to some extent in our case, but Gaurs are very strong and sometimes don't even notice shocks. Simple fencing will do for pigs..
Still another technique is night patrolling and keeping track of herds (these animals always will have to be in herds to cause significant damage to crops) and chasing them away when they come too close.
Still many methods available, we can improvise too. But why is somebody hellbent on hunting??

-- Wed Mar 31, 2010 0:18 --

kanwar76 wrote:

adityang wrote:@goodboy_mentor,
we are humans and call ourselves civilized. ...

Who told you shooting or killing something is un-civilized behavior?

Buddha