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Hunting in India

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adityang
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:34 pm

shooter wrote:
adityang wrote:5) Best minds of forest officials ROTFL ??? no further comments


dear aditya nag.

either you have einstiens mind (not that einstien was a wildlife expert) or you have actually seen the british and oz wildlife dept make serious blunders and act as bufoons. or you havent read the post correctly and assume i am talking about some other country. if none of these then pray explain why rolling on the floor?
over here, hunting is not the first step to control population of all the species. some species are pest species. others can become pests like deer. in that case one has to try other methods like fencing etc. you will be surprised at what a herd of deer can do to a fence if they cant jump over it. they break/bend it with sheer weight (collective). then one has to try other means like scaring them off etc etc. culling is the last resort but it is not ignored. if its needed then it is.

if u think the only difference in hunting and poaching are legal aspects then you dont know anything bout gamekeeping, feeders, drives, arranging drives, butts, controlled burning, pest control, quotas, seasons, culling.

in this case its not ur fault as i said people in india esp your generation is not exposed to shikar and think poaching is hunting. if ure willing, people here can tell u about these and then you can decide.

experts from all the un member nations attend CITES convocation and decide which species can be hunted, regulated etc and which species is endangered/rare etc.

please start rolling on the floor as representatives and experts from 160 odd countries have meeting and decide this of course they are so insignificant that they dont even deserve a quote from you.

while you are rolling on the floor laughing, the population of wild animals is on the increase in uk, oz, nz, us, canada, eu nations. how amusing what these foolish people can accomplish. please continue your rolling; it is doing these populations good.

i want to share a story with all of you. i am a mod on ifg orkut. i was contacted by this person who kept on insisting that i am shooting endangered birds (phesants). i tried my best to tell him phesants are not endangered and that he should look up the definition of endangered but he wouldnt listen. i told him about CITES and game keeping but he insisted that if i continued, phesants would become extinct!!
he wouldnt understand what gamekeeping was and kept insisting he knew all about it.

by the way are you an anti who will oppose hunting no matter what or a newbie who is willing to listen/learn from people who just might know a bit more about hunting than you and then reach a conclusion about where you stand?

if its the latter please say so and well be happy to talk and share if ure the former then we will still talk but like a debate.


I was under the impression that you were talking about India (since the topic was abt India). I have already clarified that I am not totally averse to hunting provided all other measures are tried. I am not at all surprised how some animals jump over tallest fences, deepest trenches. I have personally had this experiences with Gaurs. Monkeys are another very big menaces. But nobody here hunts monkeys (because of religious sentiments). It brings fore the question, if they can tolerate one kind of animal and learn to live with this, why it is not possible with others?
When I say poaching and hunting are same, I am talking about the killing. There are some sensible theories which say that gamekeeping or other management techniques increase the population of games thus giving raise to various problems. Also, my views against hunting are not entirely focused on whether species being hunted is endangered or not. It is about taking away one life, having fun at the expense of some one's suffering.
I agree that I am totally unaware of how you hunt in UK, but I am willing to know reasons behind it. But what about yourself? Where do you stand on hunting? are you one of pro-hunting guys who tweak and distort facts to justify it? who think animals are for getting killed by humans? or whether you too are open to agree that hunting may not fit current societal values and may be are outdated and unwanted if sufficient arguments are put forward?
By the way, my name is Aditya NG (full name is Aditya Nanditale Gurumurthy Jagarabhatta), not Aditya Nag, but you are free to use whatever suits you.



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Yaj
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Yaj » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:00 am

adityang wrote:When I say poaching and hunting are same, I am talking about the killing. There are some sensible theories which say that gamekeeping or other management techniques increase the population of games thus giving raise to various problems. Also, my views against hunting are not entirely focused on whether species being hunted is endangered or not. It is about taking away one life, having fun at the expense of some one's suffering.
I agree that I am totally unaware of how you hunt in UK, but I am willing to know reasons behind it. But what about yourself? Where do you stand on hunting? are you one of pro-hunting guys who tweak and distort facts to justify it? who think animals are for getting killed by humans?


So why dont you get to the point and say you are against all killing of animals: for food or otherwise? It will save everybody a lot of aggravation.
You seem to be a card carrying PETA type.
You seem to be intolerant of the views of others and believe your way is the only right way.
Well we live in a democracy and as long as I follow the law I will eat the food I want, follow whatever religion I please and if somebody doesnt like it he can take a hike!
Your tone smacks of fascism, I have as much right to eat my fish and chicken as you have to eat your sambar and rice and let anybody try and stop me! :twisted:


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mundaire
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby mundaire » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:16 am

And "killing" plants to eat them is OK, why? Or do you suggest we focus all scientific research energies on finding out a way to change the Human DNA so that we can photosynthesise... sunlight, minerals, water and viola... no killing at all! Or is there? Hmm... well one could still argue that we are taking up the space/ resources that could be used by other plants/ trees and in doing so are in effect "killing" them due to our very presence.... what of the innocent bacteria & viruses that we "kill" via medicines? Are they not worthy of your compassion, merely because they are not cute & cuddly enough? My my, could it possibly be that your compassion is based only on appearances? So cockroaches & termites deserve to die, but those you find "cute" do not?

Say what? Let the human race be completely vanquished from the planet... that way we can ensure that we (humans) have zero impact! Good enough for you? :roll:

Cheers!
Abhijeet


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adityang
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:24 am

Yaj wrote:
adityang wrote:When I say poaching and hunting are same, I am talking about the killing. There are some sensible theories which say that gamekeeping or other management techniques increase the population of games thus giving raise to various problems. Also, my views against hunting are not entirely focused on whether species being hunted is endangered or not. It is about taking away one life, having fun at the expense of some one's suffering.
I agree that I am totally unaware of how you hunt in UK, but I am willing to know reasons behind it. But what about yourself? Where do you stand on hunting? are you one of pro-hunting guys who tweak and distort facts to justify it? who think animals are for getting killed by humans?


So why dont you get to the point and say you are against all killing of animals: for food or otherwise? It will save everybody a lot of aggravation.
You seem to be a card carrying PETA type.
You seem to be intolerant of the views of others and believe your way is the only right way.
Well we live in a democracy and as long as I follow the law I will eat the food I want, follow whatever religion I please and if somebody doesnt like it he can take a hike!
Your tone smacks of fascism, I have as much right to eat my fish and chicken as you have to eat your sambar and rice and let anybody try and stop me! :twisted:


Hmmm... interesting. I am for making a "law" against killing or at least, opposing relaxation to the law which already bans/prohibits killing. You sir, look to me same as all the things you accuse me of plus racism (sambar rice thing). You too are a card holding and chest thumping may be bible (or whatever religious book that is) holding PETA (ppl for eating tasty animals) type :)
Now, can we stop taking names and saying things?

-- Thu Apr 01, 2010 0:26 --

mundaire wrote:And "killing" plants to eat them is OK, why? Or do you suggest we focus all scientific research energies on finding out a way to change the Human DNA so that we can photosynthesise... sunlight, minerals, water and viola... no killing at all! Or is there? Hmm... well one could still argue that we are taking up the space/ resources that could be used by other plants/ trees and in doing so are in effect "killing" them due to our very presence.... what of the innocent bacteria & viruses that we "kill" via medicines? Are they not worthy of your compassion, merely because they are not cute & cuddly enough? My my, could it possibly be that your compassion is based only on appearances? So cockroaches & termites deserve to die, but those you find "cute" do not?

Say what? Let the human race be completely vanquished from the planet... that way we can ensure that we (humans) have zero impact! Good enough for you? :roll:

Cheers!
Abhijeet


yeah it is. You start it and keep me for the end :lol:



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Yaj
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Yaj » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:36 am

adityang wrote:
Hmmm... interesting. I am for making a "law" against killing or at least, opposing relaxation to the law which already bans/prohibits killing. You sir, look to me same as all the things you accuse me of plus racism (sambar rice thing).

Sambar rice which almost the whole of south India eats is typical of a race/community? You thought that generalistaions are only your prerogative?

adityang wrote:You too are a card holding and chest thumping may be bible (or whatever religious book that is) holding PETA (ppl for eating tasty animals) type :)

Yes mate and I am proud of it :twisted:

adityang wrote:Now, can we stop taking names and saying things?

If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!


The more people I meet,the more i like my dog!

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shooter
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby shooter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:36 am

dear aditya, sorry about the typo. i actually meant to write ng. hope it doesnt offend you.
i am glad that you are honest in voicing your opinions and have the courage to stand by what you believe in.
since your view is not hunting versus non hunting but killing versus non killing.
this can be extrapolated to veg versus non veg too.

i want to ask you something,
are you a vegetarian born into a vegetarian family or is it that you were meat eater and now have left meat because of environmental impact/against cruelty etc etc?

are you a vegetarian because of "religious reasons" or because your family is a vegetarian?

we may start another thread based on your answers but to answer your question, of why hunting is a sport why people hunt and my stand on hunting, pleach check my innumerable posts esp my dialouges with hvj1 an eminent ifgian, a friend and a strict 'antihunter'.
hopefully you will get your reply.


You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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mundaire
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby mundaire » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:39 am

Start what? Keep you for the end of what? You mean vanquishing the entire human race?! So correct me if I am wrong, you suggest I start by killing myself, and then everyone else, and lastly you?!! Now, even if I were amenable to your suggestion - it would be quite a feat, would it not? :lol:

Do give my regards to the roaches in your kitchen, I have full faith in you not having had them exterminated... unlike the human race which you suggest should be... ;)

Cheers!
Abhijeet


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Vikram
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Vikram » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:43 am

Aditya,

If we are here to learn from each other by exchanging reason based,scientifically & practically proven methods of conservation,then it is worthwhile.Trying to out do in semantics and rhetoric is never ending and pointless.Taking animal lives alone as an argument cannot determine whether hunting/culling/control is justifiable or not.

Most of us here love animals,wildlife,forests and the great outdoors and did something in our own small capacities to preserve them.Please spare us the moral highground plank.Nature does not work that way.

If you are willing to concede that, there is progress to be made.Or,please spare your breath.Thank you.

Best-
Vikram


It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

adityang
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:01 am
Location: Sagar, Karnataka\Kolkata

Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:45 am

Yaj wrote:
Sambar rice which almost the whole of south India eats is typical of a race/community? You thought that generalistaions are only your prerogative?

You don't seem to have any knowledge of northies vs southies situation, so yes it does, along with v(b)ada sambar and curd rice.

Yaj wrote:
Yes mate and I am proud of it

It is visible in your behviour but nyways, thx for confirming...

Yaj wrote:
If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!


Damn 498a and other laws, even chicks have learned to talk these days :mrgreen:

-- Thu Apr 01, 2010 0:48 --

mundaire wrote:Start what? Keep you for the end of what? You mean vanquishing the entire human race?! So correct me if I am wrong, you suggest I start by killing myself, and then everyone else, and lastly you?!! Now, even if I were amenable to your suggestion - it would be quite a feat, would it not? :lol:

Do give my regards to the roaches in your kitchen, I have full faith in you not having had them exterminated... unlike the human race which you suggest should be... ;)

Cheers!
Abhijeet


Yeah it will be. And ok, I will tell roaches that you inquired...

-- Thu Apr 01, 2010 0:54 --

Vikram wrote:Aditya,

If we are here to learn from each other by exchanging reason based,scientifically & practically proven methods of conservation,then it is worthwhile.Trying to out do in semantics and rhetoric is never ending and pointless.Taking animal lives alone as an argument cannot determine whether hunting/culling/control is justifiable or not.

Most of us here love animals,wildlife,forests and the great outdoors and did something in our own small capacities to preserve them.Please spare us the moral highground plank.Nature does not work that way.

If you are willing to concede that, there is progress to be made.Or,please spare your breath.Thank you.

Best-
Vikram


I am trying to argue on the same line and apart from shooter, none have proposed any arguments in this regard. And no, I am not trying to take any moral high ground or be emotional but one question, when you say you love animal, why do you kill it? isn't it akin to "war for peace" kinda slogan???
And what do you mean by "nature doesn't work that way"?



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Yaj
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Yaj » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:55 am

adityang wrote:You don't seem to have any knowledge of northies vs southies situation, so yes it does, along with v(b)ada sambar and curd rice.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about that :mrgreen: got the shit end of the stick eh?

adityang wrote:It is visible in your behviour but nyways, thx for confirming...

Your view is blinded by your prejudices.


adityang wrote:Damn 498a and other laws, even chicks have learned to talk these days :mrgreen:

Is that your attempt at humour? Well you are funny without trying! :roll:


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mundaire
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby mundaire » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:56 am

Now that is really kind of you, always nice to meet someone who treats his roaches well... it really shows such delicate sensibility on your part. By the by since we are chatting, I was just wondering what woke you up from your 2 year slumber? Says you've been a member here since 2008... or did you not notice for the past 2 years that we have a hunting, fishing & outdoors section here?


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kanwar76
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby kanwar76 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:03 am

Oops i am late for the party,

So its turned in to a culinary debate with veg, non-veg, vada, sambar and curd rice.

I don't understand why people have problem with that chicken leg in my plate, I never objected to "baigan" in anybody's food.. :roll:

Go on guys....

-Inder


I am the Saint the Soldier that walks in Peace. I am the Humble dust of your feet, But dont think my Spirituality makes me weak. The Heavens will roar if my Kirpan were to speak...

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shooter
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby shooter » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:19 am

but one question, when you say you love animal, why do you kill it? isn't it akin to "war for peace" kinda slogan???

please read jim corbett, earnest hemingway, roosevelt, anderson, billy arjan singh, toname a few and famous ones. there are loads of others. im not going to go into hunters input and contribution to conservation worldwide as there have been many posts made re: that.

what you have is called bambi syndrome and it is a recognised, recorded and proven psychological phenomenon. most of us arent immune to it but whats important is to understand whats happening here.

actually, the people replying to you are gentlemen and not as obnoxious as you think them to be. they are one of the most knowledgeable and sincere members who never hesitate to share their knowledge with others only if someone cared to listen.

we all here also endorse equality on all basis and promote legal ethical and safe practices whether shooting or hunting.

as regard to your question of 'sport' so the word sport comes from french desporte meaning leisure.

a few centuries ago tennis, rugby etc games were played for leisure time so was hunting.
even in hindi the use is "shikar khelna" i.e. 'play'.

after civilisations developed hunting was as much of a leisure activity as a necessity across the various civilisations in the world.

now if u think sport can only mean cricket (well to most indians it does) then think again.

bullfighting is a 'sport'. officially recognised in many countries as a national 'game'

romans had 'games' which involved either animals killing people or people killing animals.

do u think clay pigeon shooting is a sport or a game?
it emerged from live pigeon shooting and at that point the main concern was money that caused the transition as there came a time when clays became cheaper than pigeon.

so you see ths the origin of the word sport what makes hunting a sport.

thats the reason why i didnt see any clowns jugglers or trapeze artists when i went to oxford circus.


You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

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kanwar76
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby kanwar76 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:24 am

shooter wrote:
but one question, when you say you love animal, why do you kill it? isn't it akin to "war for peace" kinda slogan???

please read jim corbett, earnest hemingway, roosevelt, anderson, billy arjan singh, toname a few and famous ones. there are loads of others. im not going to go into hunters input and contribution to conservation worldwide as there have been many posts made re: that.

what you have is called bambi syndrome and it is a recognised, recorded and proven psychological phenomenon. most of us arent immune to it but whats important is to understand whats happening here.

actually, the people replying to you are gentlemen and not as obnoxious as you think them to be. they are one of the most knowledgeable and sincere members who never hesitate to share their knowledge with others only if someone cared to listen.

we all here also endorse equality on all basis and promote legal ethical and safe practices whether shooting or hunting.

as regard to your question of 'sport' so the word sport comes from french desporte meaning leisure.

a few centuries ago tennis, rugby etc games were played for leisure time so was hunting.
even in hindi the use is "shikar khelna" i.e. 'play'.

after civilisations developed hunting was as much of a leisure activity as a necessity across the various civilisations in the world.

now if u think sport can only mean cricket (well to most indians it does) then think again.

bullfighting is a 'sport'. officially recognised in many countries as a national 'game'

romans had 'games' which involved either animals killing people or people killing animals.

do u think clay pigeon shooting is a sport or a game?
it emerged from live pigeon shooting and at that point the main concern was money that caused the transition as there came a time when clays became cheaper than pigeon.

so you see ths the origin of the word sport what makes hunting a sport.

thats the reason why i didnt see any clowns jugglers or trapeze artists when i went to oxford circus.


Awesome post Shooter. Quite informative

Keep on doing it

-Inder


I am the Saint the Soldier that walks in Peace. I am the Humble dust of your feet, But dont think my Spirituality makes me weak. The Heavens will roar if my Kirpan were to speak...

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snIPer
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby snIPer » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:41 am

I love animals - they are very tasty.
I suggest you try one yourself.
p.s. it goes well with :cheers:
/s/


On my Epitaph - Off to Happy Hunting Grounds.


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