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Hunting in India

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kanwar76
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby kanwar76 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:21 am

adityang wrote:
Vikram wrote:Aditya, I again understand where you are coming from.But, do you have any tangible argument/alternative/suggestion to offer? Thank you.

Best-
Vikram


That's what I suggested. For "vermins" like nilghai, instead of hunting, u can sterilize the bull nilghai. This will be much more effective than hunting. This is actually experience from city stray dogs. Earlier (even now in most cases) they use to kill all dogs.. but with in no time, population would reach again same level. This is because, since the source of food (garbage) was intact, dogs from other area would soon fill the vacuum. But if you sterilize the alpha male, population will be under control (no addition and natural attrition). Alpha male will not allow any new dog to join pack and guard it's territory. Since it will still be dominant for 3-4 yrs min, population will be under control.
Another way in the case of nilghai is to introduce natural predators and protect them from "poaching", but this is not without risk if area is densely populated.
Building barricades/fences/electrified (D.C,may even be solar powered, not deadly) can limit animal's access to food source and protect crop. Once crops are protected, who cares about population of nilghai????
Electric fencing is working to some extent in our case, but Gaurs are very strong and sometimes don't even notice shocks. Simple fencing will do for pigs..
Still another technique is night patrolling and keeping track of herds (these animals always will have to be in herds to cause significant damage to crops) and chasing them away when they come too close.
Still many methods available, we can improvise too. But why is somebody hellbent on hunting??

-- Wed Mar 31, 2010 0:18 --

kanwar76 wrote:
adityang wrote:@goodboy_mentor,
we are humans and call ourselves civilized. ...


Who told you shooting or killing something is un-civilized behavior?


Buddha :mrgreen:



So who is going to pay for all that sterlization, fencing etc?
Do you know how much it cost to fence an acre of land?


-Inder


I am the Saint the Soldier that walks in Peace. I am the Humble dust of your feet, But dont think my Spirituality makes me weak. The Heavens will roar if my Kirpan were to speak...

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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Zake » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:42 am

adityang wrote:
Building barricades/fences/electrified (D.C,may even be solar powered, not deadly) can limit animal's access to food source and protect crop. Once crops are protected, who cares about population of nilghai????
Electric fencing is working to some extent in our case, but Gaurs are very strong and sometimes don't even notice shocks. Simple fencing will do for pigs..
Still another technique is night patrolling and keeping track of herds (these animals always will have to be in herds to cause significant damage to crops) and chasing them away when they come too close.


Very interesting points of view. If I may offer my own arm chair point of view on this matter... You first suggested chopping the balls off the animals. Then you are suggesting building electric fences which will give electric shocks to an animal when it gets too close to it's food. And the other way his to chase it away from it's food. And I agree it's "Humane". But I doubt the animal will...

We humans are lucky aren't we ? If we get infront of a hungry carnivore it will waste little time to decide what to do and get rid of us and eat us. While we figure out the means to do the same, but with comfort to our conscious. I sure am glad that a lion prefers to kill me and eat me rater build electric fences around McDonald's or plans to chop my balls off.

Food for thought.

Zake



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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:49 am

@Inder
It took me 1.5 lacs to fence my 3 acre plot. Govt/community can together carryout these activities.



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Re: Hunting in India

Postby kanwar76 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:05 am

adityang wrote:@Inder
It took me 1.5 lacs to fence my 3 acre plot. Govt/community can together carryout these activities.


Do you have any idea what area of land are we talking here? Okay you want govt to pay for it? Do you have any idea how many people in country of ours sleep without food everyday just because govt is short of funds.

So you want to spend money on animals while our brethren sleep empty stomach. Don't you think it will be a bit wise to make them animals pay for their survival while govt concentrate on arranging food for people :roll:

I suggest you should read this thread from start before posting anymore.

-Inder


I am the Saint the Soldier that walks in Peace. I am the Humble dust of your feet, But dont think my Spirituality makes me weak. The Heavens will roar if my Kirpan were to speak...

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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:06 am

shooter wrote:dear aditya ng,

1)please read zillion posts first before asking the question why hunting? blood?scream? etc etc if u still dont find the answer, please come back and post and we will be happy to discuss.

2) why vermin? very good question..... we either know the answer or we need to find out. if we need to find out, the research will take years, in the meanwhile who suffers? the farmer?
If we already know the answer, like deforestation etc etc, then again it will take decades to solve this problems if at all, so in the short term.....
3) i dont blame you for being an armchair consvationist. hunting has been banned for so long, most indians' exposure is to poaching disguised as hunting.
4) for eg australian rabbit: big pest problem. lets go down your route: find the reason. reason is british introduces an alien species to the land which proliferated and are now a pest.

what should we try? sterilise 100 million rabbits? let them continue to multiply? introduce more alien species like dingo dogs who decimated other native smaller animals? or shoot them?

same for grey squirrel in the uk. now the native red is endangered.

i would really appreciate your suggestion as the best minds and forest officials etc have come up no other solution.

do u eat meat? or are you a vegetarian?


1) I did, but could not understand why hunting is called "sport".
2 & 4) It was which vermin, actually. I do agree that extra ordinary situations call for extra ordinary measures. Having said that, likely situation of sudden pest population explosion seems low in present scenario. So, comparing what happened in 1890s with present day is mute.
3) There is no difference between hunting and poaching except legal aspect.
5) Best minds of forest officials ROTFL ??? no further comments
6) I am a vegetarian, no conflict there.



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Re: Hunting in India

Postby kanwar76 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:09 am

adityang wrote:1) I did, but could not understand why hunting is called "sport".
.


To understand that you need to be out there doing that ..no number of posts can make you understand :roll:

-Inder


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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:15 am

kanwar76 wrote:
adityang wrote:@Inder
It took me 1.5 lacs to fence my 3 acre plot. Govt/community can together carryout these activities.


Do you have any idea what area of land are we talking here? Okay you want govt to pay for it? Do you have any idea how many people in country of ours sleep without food everyday just because govt is short of funds.

So you want to spend money on animals while our brethren sleep empty stomach. Don't you think it will be a bit wise to make them animals pay for their survival while govt concentrate on arranging food for people :roll:

I suggest you should read this thread from start before posting anymore.

-Inder


It will be good for the economy :) . The things I have said is not merely imagination. These are implemented solutions, which have worked. When govt can build fences on our border, it can be done here. And, animals are poorer than poorest human. Govt. is not "only" for humans, even animals are part of our country, isn't it??
Funny thing is, ppl think it is kinda animal v/s ppl issue but what they fail to comprehend is that these things are for ppl. If some species is stopped from extinction, ultimate beneficiary are humans.

-- Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:16 --

kanwar76 wrote:
adityang wrote:1) I did, but could not understand why hunting is called "sport".
.


To understand that you need to be out there doing that ..no number of posts can make you understand :roll:

-Inder


Who told you that I wasn't???



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Re: Hunting in India

Postby kanwar76 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:23 am

adityang wrote:It will be good for the economy :) . The things I have said is not merely imagination. These are implemented solutions, which have worked. When govt can build fences on our border, it can be done here. And, animals are poorer than poorest human. Govt. is not "only" for humans, even animals are part of our country, isn't it??
Funny thing is, ppl think it is kinda animal v/s ppl issue but what they fail to comprehend is that these things are for ppl. If some species is stopped from extinction, ultimate beneficiary are humans.


And you know how those fences were successful :roll:

No Human in this country gets anything without working so why not let animals work?
Yep, Animals are part of our country but they don't come before Humans, if you think otherwise then I don't think its of any use talking to you.

-- Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:16 --

kanwar76 wrote:
Who told you that I wasn't???


Obiously you haven't :roll:


I am the Saint the Soldier that walks in Peace. I am the Humble dust of your feet, But dont think my Spirituality makes me weak. The Heavens will roar if my Kirpan were to speak...

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Re: Hunting in India

Postby nagarifle » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:13 am

who will pay for the expensive electrical wire? the government right?
do buddhist eat meat? yes
who will pay for the sterilizing?, which takes man power to get the bull in the right place, that government will pay? right?

can it work on large scale? no. we live in a society where money matters and wildlife don't.
every man will protect his crop by the best and cheapest means at his disposal.


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Subal das » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:36 am

I think hunting should be permitted by license, want to kill one pig buy license for one pig and go.


"Loose lips sink ships"
"Curiosity kill the cat"

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Re: Hunting in India

Postby nagarifle » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:04 pm

Subal das wrote:I think hunting should be permitted by license, want to kill one pig buy license for one pig and go.

:agree:


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:29 pm

nagarifle wrote:who will pay for the expensive electrical wire? the government right?

Yeah. So?

nagarifle wrote:do buddhist eat meat? yes

Again, so? What is the point??

nagarifle wrote:who will pay for the sterilizing?, which takes man power to get the bull in the right place, that government will pay? right?

Yes, and your point is??

nagarifle wrote:can it work on large scale? no.

Why not?

nagarifle wrote:we live in a society where money matters and wildlife don't.

We "are" society. Let's change our attitude. We have done it many times before.

nagarifle wrote:every man will protect his crop by the best and cheapest means at his disposal.

Let's make fencing (or other less violent methods) cheaper and hunting costlier.

-- Wed Mar 31, 2010 20:41 --

@kanwar76
No man in society gets anything without working?? seriously??? Please tell me which society you live in...I want to visit.
You are hijacking the issue. I never advocated animals to be put before humans (but I think it should be ideally). My whole argument is human interests are served, more efficiently and to much much greater extent, by a lot of other methods. People here are just jumping into conclusion that hunting is the only option or else "poor" farmers are doomed. It makes me think that there was a stronger lobby of "hunters" behind govt. decision rather any actual material or problem.

-- Wed Mar 31, 2010 20:45 --

Subal das wrote:I think hunting should be permitted by license, want to kill one pig buy license for one pig and go.


Are you then OK with license for cock fighting, dog fighting, animal sacrifice etc etc where in one can expect animal cruelty? And why do you think a license is required in the first place???



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Re: Hunting in India

Postby Subal das » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:35 pm

by mean of licensing hunting can be regulated, for example if in some area wild boars creating a troubles, government can issue licenses to hunt down certain number, and to bring down population of wild boars in this area. Prohibition cheap but never works.


"Loose lips sink ships"
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Re: Hunting in India

Postby adityang » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:16 pm

Subal das wrote:by mean of licensing hunting can be regulated, for example if in some area wild boars creating a troubles, government can issue licenses to hunt down certain number, and to bring down population of wild boars in this area. Prohibition cheap but never works.


What if there is another option available to achieve same result without killing boars?



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Re: Hunting in India

Postby shooter » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:57 pm

adityang wrote:5) Best minds of forest officials ROTFL ??? no further comments


dear aditya nag.

either you have einstiens mind (not that einstien was a wildlife expert) or you have actually seen the british and oz wildlife dept make serious blunders and act as bufoons. or you havent read the post correctly and assume i am talking about some other country. if none of these then pray explain why rolling on the floor?
over here, hunting is not the first step to control population of all the species. some species are pest species. others can become pests like deer. in that case one has to try other methods like fencing etc. you will be surprised at what a herd of deer can do to a fence if they cant jump over it. they break/bend it with sheer weight (collective). then one has to try other means like scaring them off etc etc. culling is the last resort but it is not ignored. if its needed then it is.

if u think the only difference in hunting and poaching are legal aspects then you dont know anything bout gamekeeping, feeders, drives, arranging drives, butts, controlled burning, pest control, quotas, seasons, culling.

in this case its not ur fault as i said people in india esp your generation is not exposed to shikar and think poaching is hunting. if ure willing, people here can tell u about these and then you can decide.

experts from all the un member nations attend CITES convocation and decide which species can be hunted, regulated etc and which species is endangered/rare etc.

please start rolling on the floor as representatives and experts from 160 odd countries have meeting and decide this of course they are so insignificant that they dont even deserve a quote from you.

while you are rolling on the floor laughing, the population of wild animals is on the increase in uk, oz, nz, us, canada, eu nations. how amusing what these foolish people can accomplish. please continue your rolling; it is doing these populations good.

i want to share a story with all of you. i am a mod on ifg orkut. i was contacted by this person who kept on insisting that i am shooting endangered birds (phesants). i tried my best to tell him phesants are not endangered and that he should look up the definition of endangered but he wouldnt listen. i told him about CITES and game keeping but he insisted that if i continued, phesants would become extinct!!
he wouldnt understand what gamekeeping was and kept insisting he knew all about it.

by the way are you an anti who will oppose hunting no matter what or a newbie who is willing to listen/learn from people who just might know a bit more about hunting than you and then reach a conclusion about where you stand?

if its the latter please say so and well be happy to talk and share if ure the former then we will still talk but like a debate.


You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.


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