Minnesota State Parks

[Baljit]

Wow very nice pictures XL thank you very much. i enjoyed it, i think i have to make a plan to visit Minnesota.haha


Baljit

[xl_target]

C'mon over, Baljit!
We'll get a campsite and a big bonfire going at one of these places.

[TC]

C'mon over, Baljit!
We'll get a campsite and a big bonfire going at one of these places.

Hmm... imagining the title of a pic heavy thread we are gonna see soon ...

"IFG MEET AT MINNESOTA"




TC

[timmy]

XL, I had missed this thread. Thanks for these pics, and what they reveal about the amazing history, flora and fauna, and land of the Northern Plains. Minnesota is very unique, in that folks work together to make your state "Minnesota Nice." That certainly is evident in the parks you've shown in your great photos.

In one photo, you mention the prairie grass. Years ago, I was talking to my boss's boss in New Mexico (he was a wonderful man) and Clay told me that his grandfather had described the prairie grass on the New Mexico - Texas border as being so tall that a horse could lay down in it and could not be found. That's a lot of grass, and I suppose that it would not have been shorter where your pictures were taken.

The war with the Sioux during the Civil War is a sad and very interesting part of our history. We are so used to Native American stories much farther West that we forget that the Sioux Nation was in Minnesota. It is cause for thought to see them fighting whites in Minnesota for survival in 1862, and then fighting again for survival in Montana in 1876. That's illustrative of the pace of settlement westward, among other things.

As TC says, an IFG meet in Minnesota would be a great idea. If I could do something with this employment situation, I wouldn't mind having one this weekend!

Thanks for sharing!

[TC]

TC

[xl_target]

Tim,
The summer is just beginning. I'm sure that by the end of summer, the grass on the Prairie will be much longer.
For those who have been following this thread and are interested in the subject of the history of the Indian wars, I hope to have a treat for you soon. This year is the 150th anniversary of the 1862 Sioux uprising in Minnesota. In a couple of weeks, the staff at Ft. Ridgely State Park is planning to commemorate the event.
I hope to be able to attend the event as there will be a traditional Native American dance troupe as well as re-enactors from the 1st Minnesota Infantry and the New Ulm battery. I have seen the New Ulm battery firing their cannons before but I have not seen the 1st MN at drill. I hope to be able to get some video of the event to show you guys.

TC,
It would give me great pleasure to post a thread title similar to what you have mentioned.
One just hopes that it would not degenerate into something that would end up with headlines similar to:
"Police pursue Pyaremohan, Panduranga and Pinkie over the Prairie"

[TC]

TC,
It would give me great pleasure to post a thread title similar to what you have mentioned.
One just hopes that it would not degenerate into something that would end up with headlines similar to:
"Police pursue Pyaremohan, Panduranga and Pinkie over the Prairie"

Rest assured XL, if the Minnesota cops ever tried to do anything to IFG members we would all land up in the Prairies, guns blazing... Just go ahead and make our day

TC

[timmy]

TC, that would, indeed, be an interesting chase, but it wouldn't simulate history too well. As XL could tell you, many of the recruits during the wars with Native American tribes in the 19th century were raw immigrants. Many did not speak English. In fact, many people in the I860 era were complaining about those who were living in Wisconsin and Minnesota, claiming they weren't American because they didn't speak English. They spoke German. This situation was still true even until WW2, as my Dad, who was in the Army a year before Pearl Harbor, had a very interesting story about a fellow in his unit who was Ukrainian and didn't speak any English at all! I think that their allotment of ammunition for practice was something like a round or two a month.

Militias tended to be pretty rough and tumble outfits, as well.

We really don't have that sort of "peacekeeping" around here now, although we do have some law enforcement types who want to confiscate legally owned guns, such as what the police did in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

XL: Please bring those reenactment pics on! If I was in your shoes, I try to get a whack at firing that cannon!

[TC]

Thats interesting.... thanks Timmy

TC

[xl_target]

Ft Ridgely Reenactment

Today we went back to Fort Ridgely for an open house and reenactments. Attending were elements of the 1st, 2nd and 5th Minnesota Infantry Regiments, the New Ulm Battery and the Lucio Native American Dancers.

It was a beautiful day with a totally cloudless sky. By noon the temperatures climbed up to 90 deg. F but a steady wind on top of the ridge kept things bearable. As we drove up we noticed the 31 star US flag waving proudly in the breeze. Well, by 1862, the US flag had 34 stars as Minnesota, Oregon and Kansas should have been added to it. However, we shouldn't quibble about a minor historical inaccuracy like that.


The 31 star US Flag.

I walked over to the reenactors encampment and started up a conversation with one of the soldiers. A really great guy and he was more than happy to let me handle his rifle, show me how it operated and pose for me.


A Civil War reenactor


Working the ramrod


The nipple for the percussion cap. You can see the "U.S. Springfield" stamped in the metal here.


The percussion cap


Minie balls, percussion caps and a cartridge.


"Show the Indian guy how to hold the gun". It is a 58 caliber rifled Springfield Musket. It uses Minie balls instead of round balls.


A tent with a couple of recruits being drilled in the background.


Moin, this one is for you and all those other knife lovers. This is the Sargent's sword.


They did apologize for their drill. Apparently they have some new guys. The ripping of the cartridge with the teeth reminded me of stuff I have read about the 1857 Mutiny. The last two shots were with the percussion cap only to clear any residual powder left in the gun. Notice also that they use the little finger to push the ramrod back in place as you don't want your hand over the barrel at any time but especially with a black powder rifle.

We then went into the restored commissary which has been turned into a museum. There were a large number of interesting displays there.


A model of Ft. Ridgely as it was in 1862. If you go back to my first post on Ft Ridgely, you will see my photos of the foundations of these buildings.


The "bread" looked like it was as hard as a rock. I hope the soldiers in those days had good teeth.


A six pounder cannon with some of the projectiles used by it.


A 12 pounder Mountain Howitzer spherical Case shot and a 24 pounder howitzer cannister.


Some examples of uniforms and accouterments used in 1862


Some more equipment from 1862. I lusted after the cap and ball revolver. I think I am seriously going to have to get one of these.


A detachment of soldiers lined up on the parade ground.


The "Colonel". Well, he mentioned how he was actually a Captain but he got his rank the old fashioned way; he bought it.


A six pounder cannon belonging to the New Ulm Battery.


The Battery in action.

I was able to chat up one of the musicians too. I have always been fascinated by the sound of the fife and drums. As a little kid, I saw the movie "The Little Big Man" and loved the sound of the fife and drums as the army marched in against the Indians. Anyway, he played a few tunes for me. Events in the life of the Fort were signaled by the sound of the fife. For example, breakfast was sounded by playing "Peas on a Trencher". The Adjudant was summoned by playing "The Adjudants Call". He played several tunes for me and then called the drummer and they played one together. The fife is very piercing and it's sound carries a long way. You can hear the camera's mike popping as it tries to compensate for the high frequencies.









Native American Dancers: The Lucio native American Dancers gave a great demonstration later in the after noon.




When they were done, the dancers invited the audience to participate.

[Baljit]

My deer XL, i have no word's for you about these picture's . just wonderfull picture's and beyond my thinking.Hats off to you.


Baljit

[timmy]

XL: superb photos and videos! Thank you for sharing, as they are very interesting and reveal quite a bit about the history of warfare during much of the 19th century.

The 6pdr was famously used by Major Samuel Ringgold as the "Flying Artillery" of the Mexican American War, notably the Battle of Palo Alto, where Ringgold himself was mortally wounded. These relatively light guns could be brought into action quickly and often functioned as a sort of giant shotgun.

A gun that I found quite interesting because it was often used in the Western USA campaigns, both in wars with Native Americans and also in the Civil War, was the 12pdr Mountain Howitzer. You can see a wiki of it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1841_Mountain_Howitzer

This is a very nice little write-up of the M1841:

http://www.currensnet.com/cwcongrs/Moun ... _index.htm

In chapter 10 of this article, very near to the bottom of the page, there is a paragraph of Col. John Gibbon and the 7th Infantry's "Battle of the Big Hole" with the Nez Perce under the famous Chief Joseph. At this battle, Gibbon had a M1841 and one is still there at the Visitor's Center. The battlefield is seldom seen by tourists, as it is very remote in the upper Big Hole River valley, but this was one of my favorite motorcycle rides and gopher shooting areas, so I was quite familiar with it. Gibbon, incidentally, was also part of the campaign against the Sioux tribes, coming from the West to join Gen. Terry in support of Custer before the Battle of the Little Big Horn, just a year before the Big Hole battle.

In Chapter 9 of the write-up, the campaigns in New Mexico relate the part that the 12pdr Mountain Howitzer played. They were abandoned during the retreat of Union forces and buried in the Albuquerque Plaza. Later, they were dug up and you can still see them on the Plaza in Old Town Albuquerque today.

It is said that John C Fremont had an M1841 on his mission to California, and that it "accidentally" was lost down a canyon, where it must still remain today.

Regarding the Colt Army revolver, I sure wish I had bought one or two when they were cheap in Cabela's, which often advertised them for about $125 on sale. Now they are quite expensive with the devalued dollar. I did have a Ruger Old Army for some time, and shot it extensively on gophers and junk cars, along with more formal target shooting a the range. The soft lead balls would not pierce the thick steel of old car doors and fenders, although they'd probably go through the thinner steel of today's cars. The lead was just too soft and would mushroom extensively. The Old Army used a 40gr charge, like the old Colt Dragoon series, so it is not comparable to the Colt Army or Navy, which are lighter. The Colt Army used 28gr of black powder and wasn't as powerful, but it was much better balanced than the Dragoons, which were made for mounted troops.

The Colt Navy has the grip that was used on the famous Colt Single Action Army. The Colt percussion Army model has a longer grip and is better suited to larger hands, which is why I tend toward that model. They are a lot of fun to shoot, but you don't shoot nearly as much as a cartridge gun in your time at the range. Slow and easy is the mode -- it is for lazy afternoons, and long evenings of cleaning. They are like cleaning 7 normal guns! But they are lots of fun.

In my New Mexico, the Native American dancing is quite different from what you have shown in your video and pictures. What you've depicted in the video was pretty common in Montana, where my Wife is from. The Native Americans would often have a dancer come out and perform before the beginning of basketball games, which were greatly attended by Native Americans there. Between tribes, especially between the Crow and Sioux, who were ancient enemies, the basketball games took on a deeper shade than perhaps outsiders realize.

In New Mexico, the dances can be quite large and elaborate. I have seen dances with over 100 dancers. Nobody talks while the dancing is going on and pictures and movies are STRICTLY forbidden, as this is part of their religious beliefs. It is rather interesting to watch something that has gone on for over 1000 years be repeated.

The volley fire of rifled muskets in .58 caliber was an awesome thing, and heralded the beginning of "modern war." Thanks for sharing these pictures, XL; they are very interesting!

[xl_target]

XL: superb photos and videos! Thank you for sharing, as they are very interesting and reveal quite a bit about the history of warfare during much of the 19th century.

The 6pdr was famously used by Major Samuel Ringgold as the "Flying Artillery" of the Mexican American War, notably the Battle of Palo Alto, where Ringgold himself was mortally wounded. These relatively light guns could be brought into action quickly and often functioned as a sort of giant shotgun.

Tim, I'm glad you enjoyed the post.
It's funny you should bring up Ringgold's battery. Ringgold's second in command was Lt. Randolph Ridgely, who took over and ran the battery after Ringgold fell. Ft. Ridgely was named in honor of Lt. Ridgely.



The big bright round spot is my flash. No matter what angle I tried, I could not get rid of it. You can see the guns in the battery are very similar to the gun in my photos.

If you're interested in more artillery stuff, here is the Captain showing some of the projectiles used in the six pounder.


A six pounder shell (Spherical Case Shot). It was loaded with balls and a bursting charge. It had an effective radius of 25 yards when airburst over the enemy.


A fuse holder that is screwed into the front of the shell. It is ignited by the propelling charge and the length of the fuse determines how long it will take before igniting the charge in the shell.


A cannister shell. The Captain is holding a one inch ball similar to what was in the cannister. The cannister is filled with balls packed in sawdust. The cannister acts like a shot cup in a shotgun. It is shed at about fifty yards from the muzzle of the gun.


This is Naval grapeshot. The balls are held in place by two flat plates bolted through the middle. When the projectile is fired, the bolt breaks, freeing the balls. Since the whole thing is made of cast iron, you generally ended up with shrapnel flying everywhere as cast iron is brittle.


A rifled shell. There is a lead belt around the shell that is engraved by the rifling. The hole in the front takes an impact fuse. The Captain claims that he can put the shell through the window of a house at a mile and three quarters!


An impact fuse for the rifled shell. Inserted into it is something that works like a .22 LR cartridge. It ignites the charge in the shell on impact with a solid object.


Cartridge boxes and belts and bayonets for the Springfield rifled musket. They are draped over a part of the Limber that is usually not very far from the Cannon.


The Limber that accompanies the Cannon


A canteen belonging to a member of the 2nd Minnesota Infantry regiment.

As far as the Indian dancers, the reason there were so few of them here is because of a pow-wow going on at the Lower Sioux agency (a few miles away). This was a gentleman and his family doing the Minnesota Historical Society a favor on this occasion. This gentlemen was proud of his heritage and had taught all his children and some of his grandchildren the traditional dances. He gave a little talk before the dancing started. We asked if it was OK to take photos. Normally at a Pow-wow, we would not take photos without asking.

[timmy]

It's funny you should bring up Ringgold's battery. Ringgold's second in command was Lt. Randolph Ridgely, who took over and ran the battery after Ringgold fell. Ft. Ridgely was named in honor of Lt. Ridgely.

There's a coincidence!

My understanding is that Ringgold's outfit was exceptionally effective.

The pics look great, XL, must have been a great day!

[Baljit]

Wow !!!!!!!! this is only i can say ...........................Love you XL



Baljit