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German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

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mundaire
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German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby mundaire » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:05 pm

See the news item below. I'd like to remind everyone that whenever some dastardly attack on a woman takes place, part of the usual response is to hold half hearted "self-defence" training camps for women in the city.

Here is a male martial artist, who was attacked by two men armed with surgical blades, and he seems to have had a hard time getting away - sustaining serious injury and getting robbed in the process!

The point I'm trying to make is, the single most effective tool for self-defence is a handgun. Martial arts, if diligently practised for years, may be useful in certain situations, but in most situations it isn't effective enough.

If we are really serious about self-defence and women's safety, we simply MUST arm our women!

http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/2-h ... Ul1RL.html

German attacked, robbed in north Delhi; two arrested
Updated: Apr 09, 2017 10:41 IST
Image
Benjamin Janis Scholt, the German, was attacked near the Geeta Colony flyover at around 10.26pm on Friday by the two men after he hired a rickshaw from Chandni Chowk Metro station.(ANI)

A rickshaw puller and his associate, who were accused of attacking and robbing a 19-year-old German in north Delhi on Friday night, have been arrested, police said.

Rizwan alias Irfan and Rajkishore were arrested on Saturday evening from Brahmpuri area of Shahdara, deputy commissioner of police (north), Jatin Narwal, said.

The stolen items—a wallet containing Rs 9,000 cash and a cell phone—have been recovered, police said.

External affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, who had sought a report after the incident, praised the Delhi police in a tweet.

“The two accused wanted for attack on German national have been arrested. Good work by @DelhiPolice. @rajnathsingh @LtGovDelhi,” the minister tweeted.

Benjamin Janis Scholt, the German, was attacked near the Geeta Colony flyover at around 10.26pm on Friday by the two men after he hired a rickshaw from Chandni Chowk Metro station to Kashmere Gate bus terminal from where he was planning to board a bus to Amritsar.

But instead of taking him to the bus terminal, Rizwan, the rickshaw-puller, took him towards Yamuna Khadar area under the Ring Road loop. On the way, he picked up Rajkishore, saying he will be dropped off on the way.

“They kept on roaming around and when the tourist asked him where he was taking him, the rickshaw-puller replied in English saying, ‘I am taking you to the right place’,” a police officer said.

They took Scholt to a secluded spot beneath the Geeta Colony flyover where they attacked him with surgical blades, causing injuries to his face and elbow.

However, Scholt, who is trained in martial arts, fought back his attackers forcing them to flee after abandoning the rickshaw. The two accused managed to snatch his wallet containing around Rs 9,000 and his cell phone.

Scholt then climbed the flyover and stopped a passing car, whose occupant, a fitness instructor from Noida, rushed him to a hospital and helped him file a police complaint.

The rickshaw was seized from the spot, but it didn’t belong to the accused. Police traced its owner, questioned him and got clues about the accused but didn’t find their full address.

However, they questioned locals and the accused were found and nabbed after a chase in Brahmpuri area.

It is suspected that the accused deliberately targeted Scholt as he is a foreigner and is unaware about Delhi’s roads, police said.

Further investigation is underway. Rizwan had previous criminal involvements as well. He was earlier arrested twice in Pilibhit in Uttar Pradesh.

Police said Scholt is in India on a tourist visa. He has been visiting various places since last month and is staying at a guest house in Laxmi Nagar area here.


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goodboy_mentor
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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:18 pm

mundaire wrote:See the news item below. I'd like to remind everyone that whenever some dastardly attack on a woman takes place, part of the usual response is to hold half hearted "self-defence" training camps for women in the city.
These "self defense" trainings are to bluff, give false sense of security, fool the gullible and indirectly tell them to shut up to the question of arming themselves.


All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche

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mundaire
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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby mundaire » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:24 pm

I couldn't agree more GBM! They are nothing but an eyewash and media sound bites. There has not been a single case of a woman being able to protect herself, with whatever "skills" are taught at such camps. On the other hand we have cases like those of Rukhsana Kauser ( viewtopic.php?t=7543 ), where a woman was able to effectively use a firearm to protect herself and her family.


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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby Vikram » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:11 pm

Agree with both of you. Martial arts have their place but it takes a lot of practice, physical fitness and some strength. It also depends on the number of attackers and whether they are armed. The German guy, from the photo, looks at least over 6', a well trained martial artist and almost in peak condition at the age of 19. It should really make one pause and think.

On the other hand, if two people with blades have the jump on you and are willing to use them, I do wonder how much use a hand gun can be?

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Vikram


It ain’t over ’til it’s over! "Rocky,Rocky,Rocky....."

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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby goodboy_mentor » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Vikram wrote:On the other hand, if two people with blades have the jump on you and are willing to use them, I do wonder how much use a hand gun can be?
It depends on who is able to "do his job" the fastest.


All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. - Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby dsingh » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:33 pm

It depends upon the situation



Vassili Zaitsev
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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby Vassili Zaitsev » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:43 am

I read the news as "However, Scholt, who is trained in martial arts, fought back his attackers forcing them to flee after abandoning the rickshaw " and then " Scholt then climbed the flyover and stopped a passing car, whose occupant, a fitness instructor from Noida, rushed him to a hospital and helped him file a police complaint."

If you are a normal person without trainings n stamina ,then it is difficult to do those activities after that attack n shock from it.

Now A attack with hidden surgical blade on road will definitely have cuts on your body. Best experts swear by it ,that attack with a blade will definitely make few slices on your hands, forearms,chest other parts. But, if you are trained n know how to fight back with whatever you have, can save damage to your vital organs or a stab to stomach or heart..you live another day to tell this story.
I had couple of true stories from Mumbai where they took the same slice attack mark on hands n thighs.But their lives saved because of quick thinking n act of self defense.

The issue is martial artists are generally fight for medals in rings.It has rules but on road thre are no rules n " It is all out attack".
A true self defense techniques like krav maga or knife fighting etc teach exactly what you should do in a situation quickly and come out from it alive.
Your observation and 6th sense, should tell you when a autowala taking you rounds in city n took another guy in the same auto on the way then immediately your bell should ring.....put up a fight or resist with one guy on back because the other one is driving auto.

You don't need a handgun when you will know what damage you can do with keys, lanyard, news paper,magazine, water bottles, pens, or even simple plastic bags.
Martial arts looks good in arena but on road it is how quickly you assess the situation n REACT quickly.
A road side thug can even snatch your hand gun or pepper spray and use the same back to you..n they can move pretty fast n they don't care even if you fire couple of bullets n injured them.
Unless you are killing him, they will keep on coming.
How many of us can carry a handgun properly n can pull it out and fire a shot to a living human being?
Most of the time our brain n senses freezes on such time n failed to act. Wise act to scan n search n avoid such situation n be careful n aware on our surrounding.


"Everything that has a beginning, has an end !!!"

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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby moulindu » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:30 pm

Vassili Zaitsev wrote:Now A attack with hidden surgical blade on road will definitely have cuts on your body. Best experts swear by it ,that attack with a blade will definitely make few slices on your hands, forearms,chest other parts. But, if you are trained n know how to fight back with whatever you have, can save damage to your vital organs or a stab to stomach or heart..you live another day to tell this story.

Now that reminded me a story. During my school days i used to practise martial arts under AIKF, we used to have sparring sessions in the end of the training as every coaching centre does. there was a senior named Ashis who was quite invincible in his weight category, hardly saw him ever startled in a spar. Once during a state meet he was judging a spar & may be he made wrong call which cost a guy his championship. Couple of days later we heard that Ashis was attacked with knife & is admitted to hospital. All of us went to meet him in hospital & he identified that the loser of the championship was so furious that he with his associates attacked him with knives. though he had few injuries but could fight back (but remember one of them also knows his techniques). the attacker was later arrested & banned from any self defence training program
I think if it not had been his training he might have ended dead.
Vassili Zaitsev wrote:Most of the time our brain n senses freezes on such time n failed to act.

Thats the word freeze, i wont even think of showing my skills rather run my ass off.
Moulindu



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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby mundaire » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:24 pm

Since data on India is so sketchy, may I point you to an academic research done in USA, which I'd posted here back in 2007 viewtopic.php?t=1476

Some extracts:

Page 7 Research shows that victims armed with a gun are more likely to prevent the completion of the crime and less likely to be injured or
killed.


GARY KLECK , TARGETING GUNS 167-174 (1997). This common sense conclusion is based upon Kleck’s analysis of the most extensive, representative, and detailed data base available relevant to victim defensive action. This data base is compiled from the National Crime Victimization Study, between 1979 and 1985 and includes over 180,000 robberies, assaults and burglaries. His analysis is consistent with the findings of other researchers who examined smaller data bases. Phillip Cook found that burglaries where the victims resisted with firearms were less likely to be completed. See Phillip Cook, The
Technology of Personal Violence in 14 CRIME AND JUSTICE 57 (Michael Tonry ed., 1991).

Southwick found that robbery victims using firearms were less likely to lose cash or other valuables. Lawrence Southwick Jr., Self-defense with guns: the consequences (1996) (Revised version of a paper presented to the annual meetings of the Western Economic Association, San Diego, 1995 on file with the author). Kleck and DeLorne show that those who resist robberies using a firearm are less likely to lose property or to be injured than are victims who do not resist or who use another means to resist. Gary Kleck and Miriam DeLorne, Victim Resistance and Offender Weapon Effects in Robbery, 9 JOURN. QUAN. CRIMIN. 55-82. (1996)


Page 8
Research shows that women armed with a weapon of any kind fare better against rapists than do unarmed women. Kleck and Sayles compared incidents involving armed resistance with unarmed resistance in a national survey. They found that rape victims who resisted using a weapon of any kind, whether it was a gun, knife, or another weapon, were less likely to have the rape attempt completed than victims resisting with any other way. Gary Kleck and Susan Sayles, Rape and Resistance, 37 S OC . P ROB . 149-162 (1990). Their results confirmed Lizotte’s 1986 analysis of rapes in selected cities in Determinants of completing rape and assault, 2 JOURN. OF QUAN. CRIM. 203-217 (1986).


Given a chance would women use guns to defend themselves?
Page 9
estimates of such defensive gun use range from 700,000 to as high as 2.5 million per year. Almost half of these incidents are by women.


Is a firearm a better means of self defence, specially for a woman?
Page 10
However a woman defending herself with a handgun is 2.5 times less likely to be injured than one who submits, and four times safer than one who resists by another means.



page 9
Feminist Martial Arts author Judith Fein agrees that in unarmed combat someone has to get hurt, “you indeed have to hurt him. You must, in fact, incapacitate him so that he can not come after you.”

In contrast, ninety-seven percent of the time a citizen displays a handgun she or he deters criminal attack without firing or by merely firing a warning shot. No one is injured because the assault was deterred.


For more, I would strongly suggest everyone download and read the pdf from viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1476

Cheers!
Abhijeet


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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby Vassili Zaitsev » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:10 pm

Good discussions and thanks for all the inputs. But in our country how many ladies can pull out a handgun n shoot at living target, is a matter of discussion.
Handgun is a great way to keep yourself safe but also this is a matter of proper training n mentality to shoot at someone when the situation comes.


"Everything that has a beginning, has an end !!!"

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Re: German martial artist attacked, robbed in north Delhi

Postby AKYOGI » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:53 pm

Martial artists being attacked? There is nothing unusual about it. Martial art training is not designed to be used against an aggressor in a life or death situation.

Venki

Added in 4 minutes 51 seconds:
Vikram wrote:On the other hand, if two people with blades have the jump on you and are willing to use them, I do wonder how much use a hand gun can be?

Best-
Vikram



Well said. Here is the significance of awareness training. Situational awareness will help one to ward of 99% of trouble before it materialises.

Venki


Better be a Wolf and die in six months than be a Lamb and live for a thousand years.


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