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The Attack of 26/11

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StampMaster
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The Attack of 26/11

Postby StampMaster » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:48 am

Dear Pals,

The Attack of 26/11- is just the beginning.

Today I watched movie THE ATTACK OF 26/11. While watching the movie tears rolled out and later there is fear in my mind.

Especially watching the barbarian scenes in the movie, should we be blaming Ram Gopal Verma for directing a reality movie showing merciless killing or our bureaucrats and laws that restrict individuals to bear arms for self-defense? This bring a million thoughts to my mind now..

- Is our age old bureaucracy and laws hold us back in dark ages of pre-independence to make it almost impossible to gain access to arms license.
- Are our police capable to tackle terrorist attacks? Or even provide support to individuals in emergency?
- Does our system has a disaster management ready to tackle such situations?
- Any provision/budget/mandatory training for policemen to refresh their shooting skills once their initial recruitment training is done?
- As special children of god (as we have arms with license) we IFG’s have limited liability for self defense and dear ones rather than maintaining safety in our vicinity
- Does this attack have been better tackled and had minimized the loss if individuals had access to bear arms like the United States?
- Are there any agencies like homeland security or at least neighbor watch kind of community existing to tackle crimes?

I witnessed the last bomb blasts in Koti and now near and my dear ones witnessed Dilshuknagar blasts. What concerns me is that do I/we have to live in with a constant fear of security and life in our own country?

Note- A reliable source of mine has mentioned there might be another terrorist attack in Hyderabad. I advice everyone to travel with caution, have conscious of your surroundings and presence of mind when you face any emergency. Strictly follow security measures advised by your local police.


”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

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xl_target
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby xl_target » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:23 am

Even in the US, we have some of the same problems that you bring up here. The cops will show up after the crime and document it. Not expecting too much from any Government agency either. The fact that some US citizens have gun licenses doesn't mean that they are now junior G-Men or have any special powers; If you shoot someone, you will most likely have to justify your actions in front of a court of law. Not only that, they will take and hold your gun till after the trial and then (depending on jurisdiction) you might have to go to court to get it back.
Will anyone come in to clean up the mess of a 26/11 type of act; most likely ...but it will be after everything is over.

There is only one thing to keep in mind; if you and your family want to be safe, you are responsible for your own safety and no one else.
Don't expect someone to come and save you - have a plan to do it yourself.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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timmy
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby timmy » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:51 am

Stampmaster: your questions are not simple ones and whatever answers may not be very palatable or comforting, either.

The levels of threats that you may face come in a number of different flavors.

One case would be the case of random hooligans, such as a gang of youths or petty thieves, who are armed with fists, clubs, or knives. In this case, having a firearm is a very viable option. This would be true whether you are out and about, or at home.

If the goon has a firearm as well, you are at a disadvantage, because he has the element of surprise and possibly a plan, and you are in a reactive mode.

If the person is some sort of organized terrorist, forget it. For example, the Mumbai terrorists were organized, had the element of surprise, and had tremendous firepower. They also had communications and centralized direction. Against this, an IOF .32 or even, say, a 9mm Glock with a large magazine is not going to much for you. Granted, it is better than nothing, but it still makes you dependent on a lot of luck when facing this kind of threat.

This element of surprise the bad guys have -- it has other ramifications, too. Let's say you are in that train station and the two goons are spraying the place with automatic weapons fire. Let's say you have an IOF .32 revolver, or maybe, the laws are changed to allow you to carry the 9mm Glock. In that situation, what is the likelihood that you are going to be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem? Not too good, I think.

Let me explain:

You are in a public place and there are hundreds, or at least many, innocent people like yourself around. A professional security person will have had extensive training for these situations (maybe not in that case, but they should). They will have some training experience, at least, to know how to try to neutralize the bad guys without undue threat to the hundreds of civilians around. An amateur, like most of us, is more likely to be spraying the area and shooting innocent bystanders, too. And don't offer up Army or other military training as some sort of qualification. Having shot a gun in military training will not prepare you adequately for this sort of situation. Yes, it may be better than nothing, but it is nowhere near enough to qualify you for dealing danger to the bad guys while reasonably (for the situation) protecting the innocent bystanders.

Like it or not, when society faces organized and well-funded goons as in the Mumbai Massacre, individual armed citizens are not sufficient. A comparable, or really a superior intelligence apparatus with the expertise and resources is what is needed, and one of the lessons of the USA's 9/11 is that these security forces need to be coordinated and overseen in such a way that bureaucracy and "empire builders" are constantly and ruthlessly swept away into the dustbin, allowing the hard work of experts to have maximum effect.

So if you have a licensed, legal handgun in your pocket, and especially if you are practiced in its use, yes, you have reason to feel protected in the face of ordinary goons. But if you are thinking that the revolver in your pocket is going to protect you against organized terror attacks, you are probably as well off singing "All Izz Well" as you confidently feel that lump of steel in your pocket.


Regards,
tim

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Hammerhead
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Hammerhead » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:49 am

There is only one thing to keep in mind; if you and your family want to be safe, you are responsible for your own safety and no one else.
Don't expect someone to come and save you - have a plan to do it yourself.


Newly made by some one in United States

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

StampMaster
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby StampMaster » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:32 pm

Appreciate your views. In every such terror attack, mugging, homicide, robbery etc a innocent individuals are the one who face the terror. I am not sure about the statistics but chain, mobile phone and bag snatching is a very common in many parts of Hyderabad and Bangalore. I witnessed enough of them. In some the 2 female victims were attacked with kitchen knife and the scene went on for 5 mins with a 1000 people on the road and just 2 thugs. But no one dared to face the situation (i dint dared to). In such situation, I do not expect someone with a gun try to shoot the thieves but at least he/she could fire in air or scare them off by display. Not just here, but in every case I expect the armed person to act responsibly and with presence of mind.

What I expect is are we (individuals, police and government etc) doing enough so such attacks do not repeat or prepared to tackle any such situations.. or just training ourselves to be more irresponsible finally thanking god that myself or my family are not the victim and wait for forthcoming terror attacks to be victim?


”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:44 pm

IMO, a good pair of legs is worth a .357 mag in such a situation.Cowardly though it seems, use your legs to get the hell out of there.If you are concerned about other's lives and wish to take a shot at the perps, hope you aren't jailed for hitting someone innocent.Heck, you might be gunned down by the cops.


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

StampMaster
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby StampMaster » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:08 pm

I have worked with government security agencies for iris scanners. And a few meeting when senior officers of the state, I have asked them about police training (arms handling, terror strikes, crowd control and disaster/emergency management etc) and refresher course to policemen after training. And the reply was "there is nothing like refresher course and arms handling and usage practice was less than 3 for 1000 policemen.

I am saying that we having a civil defense and NCC (national Cadet Corps) something like home land security is necessary to immediately tackle the situation.


”Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.”

Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:11 pm

and arms handling and usage practice was less than 3 for 1000 policemen.

Does that mean 0.3% of the cops can shoot straight?


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

pankajbanjara
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby pankajbanjara » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:25 am

makes no difference , the USA govt with all its guns and population armed with weapons could not prevent a terrorist attack , same in our country govt with all its nil armed population & ill trained security forces COULD NOT PREVENT ANY OF THE ATTACKS ,, we indians seriously need to think in a radical manner ,, gradually india is turning into a soft state with no sense of security , the frequency of bomb blasts is ever increasing ,, ( check the data ) ,, we need an ISRAEL type solution


WGKWGF

Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:49 am

we need an ISRAEL type solution

What works for the Isrealis won't work for us.Our population is too diverse with many schools of thought.

While large scale attacks have more chances of being thwarted, one and two man teams are hard to stop.


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

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gladiatorgarg
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby gladiatorgarg » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:23 pm

Gentlemen after reading through the posts,i would like to put up some views of mine which may be radical...so readers discretion is solicited please

1. in a country as diverse as India with an unstable a region as a whole terrorist/anti-national activities will be a part of life

2.our nation is a pseudo-democracy the real power is with only 15% of the political/business elites and they have their own agenda

3.lack of political will is very obvious since we have not earned our freedom with blood it was given to us since for the Britishers ruling India was becoming more of a problem than benefit and they divided our country with a deep gash which will keep on oozing blood and pain for both the nations and more over our so called national leaders instead of puting up a brave front agreed to this divide for their own feudal benefits...this only benefited the so called political elites and few families on both sides of the border

4.therefore to expect some radical change in the thought process of our political class is just utopia, since it benefits them most, as a bomb blast here and there a shootout left n right keeps the common man busy, and the main problems of poor governence,corruption,nepotism,criminalisation of politics goes to the back burner

5.so gentlemen we will have to think in a positive frame of mind why do we need guns??as a hobby??as sports??all right no problems with it but for personal safety why???why can't my elected govt be able to provide me the basic minimum of the right to live and die in a dignified manner??

its high time that we start another freedom struggle against corruption,nepotism,criminalisation..and the list goes on



Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:45 pm

1. in a country as diverse as India with an unstable a region as a whole terrorist/anti-national activities will be a part of life

This is true for most large countries.

2.our nation is a pseudo-democracy the real power is with only 15% of the political/business elites and they have their own agenda

Correct again.But everyone has their own agenda, do they not?

since we have not earned our freedom with blood it was given to us

I disagree sir.There was a great deal of bloodshed and pain endured by us.

Regarding point 4, an attack on the politicians/their families may change that outlook.Unfortunately, most of the security available is already guarding them.

?why can't my elected govt be able to provide me the basic minimum of the right to live and die in a dignified manner??

Cause they don't care, and your safety is your responsibility.It will be until your last breath.


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

ngrewal
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby ngrewal » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 am

Police are too over worked and there is no incentive or practice for disaster planning of any sorts. Indian system is too reactive than proactive. Forget the civilians why dont the cops have decent weapons even NSG elite of elite dont have the same technology as their counterparts ? Each of indian forces was caught napping Navy, Coast guard, NSG name it.
It was bravery of few bold policemen and NSG that saved the days.
:deadhorse:



Skyman
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby Skyman » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:50 am

It seems our foremost weapon is bravery.


I would rather hit my target gently than miss hard.

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pistolero
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Re: The Attack of 26/11

Postby pistolero » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:20 am

I just the saw the movie and read all the opinions expressed here.

A few things stuck to my mind, I dont know how true is it, that Lathi wielding Police actually threw rocks inside Leopold?? To check of someone was still in there?? And what if they were still in there what then?? What would they do?

We all understand that NPB calibers do not have much stopping power, and that too in this case against opposition which would be wearing vests, which can easily absorb these calibers. BUT my point is these terrorists went unstopped and unchallenged! with absolutely no fear of a retaliation!!Coz they knew, no one would have any weapons to fire back!! Hundreds were getting shot and not a single round was fired back by a citizen! NOT ONE!!

Senior police officers say this was once in a life time! We have Force One Now!! God only knows their level of training and preparedness as first responders! But when the shit hits the fan and before the first responders RESPOND! We the people are the ones who are on Ground Zero and will have no option but to respond or die!!!

So how do we respond!! 2 five star hotels 1 Railway station with hundreds of people 1 apartment building and 1 hospital, hundreds of Indians and not even one person with the ability to strike back.

Long Long ago, my boxing coach told me just before I got into the ring with the Railway Champion, was that I needed to standup to him for 3 excruciating rounds, I might not have the skill to beat him, I might not have the punches he has, but I have the will to last 3 rounds with him and when I do get my chance! I should strike and I did!! I lost but yes I hurt the guys pride!! Post the first round he did not look at me as a punching bag anymore, he knew he would get hit. He was more wary and I had a better chance!

For all those innocents who laid down their lives, im sure some would have wanted to give back what they were getting even if it was with sorely underpowered weapons! Atleast the perpetrators would have their morale challenged! they would be defensive rather than overtly aggressive!!

Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms is grossly being abused!! We as Citizens of a free country are sitting ducks! If we dont protect ourselves, no one else will.


"Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame."


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