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.32 NOT a manstopper!

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Zagarier
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.32 NOT a manstopper!

Postby Zagarier » Wed May 02, 2007 2:20 pm

I see that .32 revolvers and nothing more powerful than that is being used by private law abiding citizens of India or am I wrong.
What about 9mm semi automatic pistols are you all allowed to own these ?
These are good and powerful weapons of choice these days.
Did you all know that if one uses a .32 to shoot an agressor that agressor will keep on coming towards you instead of stopping and falling. If stopping was the idea .32 is not the weapon for it. That is why after the WWI they switched to .45 caliber pistols(1911).
Thanks



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Olly
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Postby Olly » Wed May 02, 2007 2:56 pm

Did you all know that if one uses a .32 to shoot an agressor that agressor will keep on coming towards you instead of stopping and falling. If stopping was the idea .32 is not the weapon for it. That is why after the WWI they switched to .45 caliber pistols(1911).
***************************

I don't think so... u r under-estimating the power of a .32 shot... If killing someone with one shot is the intention, well, then ofcourse the .45 is suitable. But why kill when all u need is to incapacitate ??



Mack The Knife
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Postby Mack The Knife » Wed May 02, 2007 2:59 pm

Anupam\";p=\"19102 wrote:But why kill when all u need is to incapacitate ??


Because you could end up getting killed.

Mack The Knife



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Olly
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Postby Olly » Wed May 02, 2007 3:07 pm

Depends on the situation... in a gun fight, surely. But that is a rare probability in big cities...



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Sujay
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Postby Sujay » Wed May 02, 2007 3:21 pm

Anupam\";p=\"19106 wrote:Depends on the situation... in a gun fight, surely. But that is a rare probability in big cities...


In big cities, either someone will shoot you before even you realise that he has got a gun or confront you at a very short distance leaving no room for Cowboy style gunfights.

You are in fact somewhat safe if a gunfight breaks out.

But why kill when all u need is to incapacitate ??

The courts are of the view that if you have the luxury to contemplate a choice between killing and incapacitating ; your life at THAT MOMENT is/was NOT in danger and you are/were not supposed to pull the trigger. If you actually fire after deciding to kill, you might be prosecuted for murder. Also, never fire at an attacker running away ( alone) even in the leg for the same logic of 'incapacitating' will apply.


A man should have a hobby. It keeps him out of trouble.

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Olly
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Postby Olly » Wed May 02, 2007 5:44 pm

Guys with experience of actual shooting situations should chip in with their views...
My own experience with the police gives me my opinion... the FIRST which is to visualise the threat perception at that moment and then if possible, restrain / incapacitate rather than kill.... however, in a life or death situ, shooting to kill may be permitted. The courts also determine whether it was possible for you to incapacitate the attacker rather than kill him. This is the same dictat given to police officers... bring to justice rather than pack off to hell !!



Grumpy
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Re: Handguns

Postby Grumpy » Wed May 02, 2007 11:10 pm

"I don't think so... u r under-estimating the power of a .32 shot..."

Afraid not. You are wildly over-estimating the stopping power of the .32 - any .32. The only decent .32 is the .32 H&R Magnum and that isn`t wonderful either. .32 calibre handguns are hopeless manstoppers.
The FBI abandoned the 9mm Parabellum - a round considerably more powerful than any .32 available in India - after several incidents when criminals were wounded several times by 9mm Para bullets yet managed to continue shooting to deadly effect. After a major revue the FBI adopted the .40 S&W although the elite Tactical Response Units use the .45 ACP.
It has been said many times that if you have time to consider shooting to disable you are not under immediate threat. No security agency - Police or military - in the world teaches shooting to incapacitate. All are taught the aim for the upper chest. You shoot to stop the assailant NOT to incapacitate and the chest provides the largest target area that is likely to stop the assailant. Aim to incapacitate and you are effectively aiming to miss.
The .45 calibre handgun was adopted after the Phillipines war and was in use by all American forces during WWI. Although all branches of the US military adopted the 9mm Beretta 92F in 1985 the Iraq war has again proved that the 9mm isn`t up to the job and reserve 1911A1 .45 ACPs have have to be issued.



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eljefe
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Postby eljefe » Wed May 02, 2007 11:21 pm

Hi Zagarier,
Thanks for coming in.
Can you give us a brief intro in the new joinees area.
have a nice time, and post often
best
Axx


''It dont mean a thing, if it aint got that zing!''

"...Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..."

art_collector
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Re: Handguns

Postby art_collector » Wed May 02, 2007 11:49 pm

I recently met a doctor whose 45 pistol was looted from him. The goons stopped his car and as he tried to fire in the air they overpowered him and took his pistol and some other stuff he was carrying with him.

He now carries a can of pepper spray in a pouchattached to his belt and says he finds it a better than the 45 pistol he lost. Supprisingly he has been able to catch twotheives who entered his office .....courtsey the pepper spray.

AC



art_collector
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Re: Handguns

Postby art_collector » Wed May 02, 2007 11:51 pm

ooops ...........sorry this message was to be sent by PM .

AC



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Risala
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Re: Handguns

Postby Risala » Wed May 02, 2007 11:54 pm

Anupam,

Grumpy is correct,the only way a .32 will stop a bloke is one in the head.
Incidentally in the forces we were trained to aim for the head.

Grumpy,
Stangely the Mossad used the .22 for all the hits they carried out in the 70's & early 80's post the Munich massacre.
The preferred choice was a Beratta in .22 with a silencer.

Sanjay



sa_ali
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Postby sa_ali » Wed May 02, 2007 11:56 pm

Point me i am wrong, but 9mm comes under prohibited Bore in India. Gurus out there is shed more light on that, ,y understanding is that weapons which are in use by armed forces are prohibited to civilian here in India and 9mm falls in that category.



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Risala
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Re: Handguns

Postby Risala » Wed May 02, 2007 11:58 pm

Yup, 9 mm is a PB.
HTH
Sanjay



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eljefe
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Postby eljefe » Thu May 03, 2007 12:41 am

Ok folks , lets start on a 'center mass' and 'edge of mouth' take downs.
While 9 is PB, the intention of drawing a gun on any human is OBVIOUS. Thats why the doc had his 45 wrestled away...If he drew his gun, apprehending fear of deadly force to life, he should have opened fire ON the attackers OR-turned and run without drawing his gun.
A handgun or any gun-is not for a warning shot in the air when it comes to use of deadly force.
The ONLY purpose is to STOP/DROP your attacker.
But, with too many news reports of police firing warning shots in the air and TV and movies showing good guys shooting the guns out of bad guys hands, every one expects it to be the norm.IT IS NOT !!
A gun is to be drawn and used if you apprehend immdediate danger to life/limb/ property/family
Use of deadly force is NOT defined clearly in IPC and Cr PC
Else, dont draw it for bravado and threatening the attacker.He is committed to harm you (looking at it from your point of view...) turn tail and do the zen thing ;) Walk away.Avoid confrontation.
Warning shots and shoot below the knees should have gone out with the mastodon-unless you consider the N Ireland method of 'shots -below-the-knee' aka kneecapping :(

center body mass- area between the two hip bones.Those of us who dont have too much avoirdupois and love handles, please identify the spots? Will incapacitate only with multiple shots.

corner of mouth-
supposed to zip into an area of the brain called Pons and prevent EVEN a twitch of the nerves and an accidental pressure of the trigger finger-as when a bad guy is holding a gun to the hostage's head!
Enjoy and DONT TRY THESE AT HOME.ALL THESE ARE ADVOCATED AND PRACTICED BY PROFESSIONALS ADEQUATELY TRAINED IN THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE


''It dont mean a thing, if it aint got that zing!''

"...Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..."

Grumpy
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Re: Handguns

Postby Grumpy » Thu May 03, 2007 12:46 am

"Grumpy,
Stangely the Mossad used the .22 for all the hits they carried out in the 70's & early 80's post the Munich massacre.
The preferred choice was a Beratta in .22 with a silencer. "

I`ve heard that too......and not only about Mossad. The point being, of course, that those would have been executions carried out at very short range and, necessarily, head shots. .22s are even used in some humane killers for animal slaughter - again at point blank range.




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