Indians For Guns

TwoRivers wrote:Design limits, however, mean little when the material isn't up to that "design spec". Unless that mechanical engineer is into spring manufacture, he's just spouting theory. Trust me, both spiral and V springs can take a set if left compressed over a long time. And a lot of the current wire springs never seem to have been up to design specs. Granted, most people don't load a magazine fully, and then not look at the pistol for thirty years. But that "myth" didn't come up out of thin air. Cheers.

True but I was talking about magazine springs properly designed, specified and executed for the purpose at hand. If a poorly designed or improperly specified spring is used in any mechanical device, it is likely to fail prematurely.

True. But unfortunately there are still enough magazines on the market that are unreliable. And the manufacturer may not always get the material, or treatment, specified. Things like springs usually come from an outsize source specializing in such items. And it's usually those little things that fail. Nor is it that easy to properly "design" a spring. It's usually designed by guess, and a compromise.
Not that it is something you need to be overly concerned about these days, but springs can, and do, fail.
I would go as far as saying, that in our heavy military equipment, little springs breaking gave us the most headaches. Every manufacturer is trying to save pennies, and the lowest bidder prevails. Cheers.

with two rivers.

Well maintained Pistol with couple of magazines, locking folder (Knife) as back-up.

i still remember my college days when my mamaji , a gun lover and a shaukeen person bought a nice small pistol .22 calibre and the first time he tried his hand to shoot the gun ... oops miss , then he took out the missed cartidge to see that the cartridge primer had a hit mark , but it did not fired... subsequently he tried loading and firing all 8 bullets in the gun and all missed....

The arms dealer was followed on ; he said that the .22 bullets may have been old or something...... , i still not know what was the fault in reality , the pistol or the bullets ... but the hit mark on every bullet primer was visible ......

later on my mamji was horrified to see the pistol failure on the pretext that what would have happened if the same case had been there if he was in difficult situation. the next day he sold of his gun at a loss of 10,000 and bought a colt revolver for two times the price he had already spent on pistol. he even have occasional misses in the revolver , may be due to faulty ammunition but still he had never witnessed all six go waste in revolver without wasting as a nick of time he can fire another one if one misses out...

The impression had a serious effect on my mindset

So i was getting a old pistol for a good price but revolvers are revolvers.....

in urban condition and never to take chance i carry my iof .32 fully loaded and with safety lock on.... and with great peace of mind....

"Courage without skill will not avail in the time of danger: and men of great natural courage will, from being unaccustomed to scenes of peril, lose their presence of mind at such moments."

Major Henry Shakespear.

It is better to stick to a loaded revolver and live to tell the tale.No point in arguing for the virtues of the pistol when the license holder is no more there to tell what happened.There can not be a compromise in a life threatening situation. I believe that IFGians are talking about handguns in a defensive situation. In self defense situation reaction time is in seconds, so revolver has no competition.

Guys i think its a never ending debate... Both guns have pro's and cons .. To each his own... I think people have said and put down enough points in defense of both guns... so pick n choose what suits u best

Revolvers ofcourse...

lol like i said here we go.. this debate never ends.. i m waiting for the next guy who say semi auto and the next who says revolvers... and on and on...lol

indigo_indo wrote:i still remember my college days when my mamaji , a gun lover and a shaukeen person bought a nice small pistol .22 calibre and the first time he tried his hand to shoot the gun ... oops miss , then he took out the missed cartidge to see that the cartridge primer had a hit mark , but it did not fired... subsequently he tried loading and firing all 8 bullets in the gun and all missed....

The arms dealer was followed on ; he said that the .22 bullets may have been old or something...... , i still not know what was the fault in reality , the pistol or the bullets ... but the hit mark on every bullet primer was visible ......

later on my mamji was horrified to see the pistol failure on the pretext that what would have happened if the same case had been there if he was in difficult situation. the next day he sold of his gun at a loss of 10,000 and bought a colt revolver for two times the price he had already spent on pistol. he even have occasional misses in the revolver , may be due to faulty ammunition but still he had never witnessed all six go waste in revolver without wasting as a nick of time he can fire another one if one misses out...

The impression had a serious effect on my mindset

So i was getting a old pistol for a good price but revolvers are revolvers.....

in urban condition and never to take chance i carry my iof .32 fully loaded and with safety lock on.... and with great peace of mind....

best for defence is the gun you have with you, and have trained with, if trouble actually comes your way. anything else is just trying to milk a bull.

best

peter

best for defence is the gun you have with you, and have trained with, if trouble actually comes your way. anything else is just trying to milk a bull.

Regarding pistol malfunction, again, this can be attributable (usually) to a weak magazine spring or to using a bullet shape that doesn't feed well in an individual or type of pistol.

If one is getting a used pistol or buying a magazine of questionable background, then some thought needs to be applied to how trustworthy this equipment actually is -- the equipment that one will trust one's life to.

For myself, I have tried all of my magazines and made sure that they functioned. All have, except for two pistols: The two magazines that came with my CZ 50 in .32 ACP both failed to feed properly, causing jams. I replaced both of those with Wolff springs and now have full functioning with both. When I carry it, I will empty and reload the magazines every few days. Whether this actually helps or not, I'm not sure, but it cannot hurt and it makes me feel better. The other problem was the spare magazine to me CZ 52: it was bent and would fail to permit the follower to work.

This said, one ought to remember that a revolver can jam, as well. If the weapon isn't maintained, or is stored in a pocket where it may be jammed with lint or whatever, problems can also arise. Any mechanical device can fail, and different designs each have weaknesses associated with those designs.

For instance, I have seen worn revolvers that would only be reliable in the same way a rock picked up from the street was reliable: to throw! When I am speaking of a revolver that is reliable, I think of my own Colt Detective Special, a gun that's relatively new (early 1980s) and has always seen tender loving care. Being a high-quality weapon to begin with (yes, I've had it ALL apart, so I do know what's going on under the sideplate) , having shot it a fair amount, and maintaining it rigorously, I do trust it.

However, while I would feel more comfortable with it under the pillow (frankly, all the guns are in the safe -- I don't keep a weapon by the bedside), I will be the first to admit that what I said about the design, manufacture, shooting experience, and maintenance of my Detective Special applies just as well to any of my semi-auto pistols.

This even holds true for my Norinco 213: It isn't finished like a Colt, but its internal working surfaces are reliable, both in finish and design. It is crude, yes, but it is also reliable. It digests whatever I've run through it without a problem, and functions flawlessly.

(Note: I consider this pistol as marginal for self-defence, because it can't be carried safely with a round in the chamber. I only mean to illustrate the reliability of what is ordinarily considered a crudely finished arm.)

Here, I'll observe: A crudely made pistol is more likely to be reliable than a crudely made revolver. That's because there are so many things that go on in a revolver that can go wrong. A semi-auto, especially a blow-back semi-auto, just doesn't have too many things to go wrong in it like a revolver -- even a single action revolver -- does.

So, while one can make generalizations about this versus that, NOTHING is going to be a viable substitute for KNOWING that a particular gun is reliable. That means getting it out to the range and putting rounds through it -- especially the rounds that will be used when the weapon is carried for self-defense. If one expects to just buy a gun, take it home, and carry it around without having personal experience with it, well, one is just fooling one's self. A high quality gun may be more likely to go bang that a low quality one, and a newer one more likely to go bang than a well-used (or abused) one, but without knowing what's going to happen if the weapon is called upon to do its job is not the best way to go about this business of self-defense. At least, that's how I feel about something I'm going to trust my life to!

Regarding misfires, these can occur in both revolvers and pistols for a variety of reasons.

This debate can never end