This does not make any sense

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mundaire
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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by mundaire » Thu May 05, 2022 11:13 pm

The exact same thought struck me when I read it! :lol: There must be other issues at play here...
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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by shooter50 » Thu May 05, 2022 11:34 pm

An high quality Assault Rifle is not Rocket Science. Best to manufacture them indeginously. What we need is quality control and less corruption in Defence Production. Encouraging private players should help. An order of 70000 SIGs for an Army of 1.3 million???. Indian Defence Equipment is a logistics nightmare and we don't seem to be learning. Article, though, seems to be based on partial and incomplete information.

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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by timmy » Fri May 06, 2022 1:42 am

1.
Also, not having any of these sights to secure a virtual image of the intended mark required the shooter to close one eye to make his objective, thus depriving him of peripheral vision that could well determine the stark choice between life and death on the battlefield.
Whether shooting iron sights or optical sights, shooting with both eyes open is not only possible, it is preferable. The writer and perhaps the source material doesn't seem to know a lot about basic shooting.

2.
The contract, concluded under a bilateral Inter-Governmental Agreement, also included the direct import of 20,000 AK-203 rifles with collapsible stocks from Russia for the IA for $1100 each.
Before the 2nd Gulf War, when the USA had imposed a strict arms embargo on Saddam Hussein, Saddam was buying AKs from Russia for $450 a piece, guns that cost the Russians $50 a piece to make. This was the premium Saddam had to pay if he wanted any rifles at all. I recognize that inflation has increased prices since that time, but $1100? Somebody's in the right business -- maybe even more than one party.

3.
When fired, these local rounds reportedly, in many instances, tended to spawn “barrel bulges” that rendered many rifles inoperable. These bulges ensued after a round failed to exit the rifle upon firing and then the follow-on round built up tremendous pressure due to the constricted air inside the barrel, causing it, in turn, to either develop a bulge, cracks or even lead to it exploding altogether.
This can be a controversial subject. Barrels and chambers can bulge when the gun is fired with a barrel obstruction. Even a cleaning patch can cause it. But this does not seem to be the problem here. Another problem can be caused with light loads and the use of filler or wads to keep the powder back near the primer. But I doubt that this military ammunition is loaded with either filler or wads.

More controversially, there is the matter of "detonation," where part of the powder is burned when pressures set it off, like a diesel engine, and the pressure waves of the initial firing and the detonation meet.

Finally, there's the issue of a flaw in the manufacture of the gun.

In any event, a bulge or ring in the chamber will cause the brass of the case to expand into the depression, making extraction difficult or impossible.

So, in this case, either the barrel has bad metallurgy, or the cartridges in question were improperly loaded with the wrong charge or wrong powder.

4.
The local ammunition also generated a higher recoil or kickback in the rifles compared to that produced by Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 variants or the indigenously developed Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56×45 mm assault rifles that Indian Army troops had employed for decades.
Well, duh! That a higher intensity round like 7.62 x 51 should have more felt recoil than 7.62 x 39 or 5.56 x 45 cannot be a surprise, except to someone who knows very little or nothing about firearms.
“You should tell someone what you know. There should be a history, so that men can learn from it."

He smiled. “Men do not learn from history. Each generation believes itself brighter than the last, each believes it can survive the mistakes of the older ones. Each discovers each old thing and they throw up their hands and say ‘See! Look what I have found! Look upon what I know!’ And each believes it is something new."


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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by AgentDoubleS » Fri May 06, 2022 3:48 am

[under IA advisement had, out of pecuniary considerations, decided acquiring these critical auxiliary add-ons, essential to precisely aligning targets in conflict zones at ranges varying between 100m and 700m. The latter battery-operated sight, for instance, provided users a ‘point of aim’ in the form of an illuminated red dot, a phenomenon often seen in action movies; their absence renders the user wholly or at least partially blind in skirmish areas.

Also, not having any of these sights to secure a virtual image of the intended mark required the shooter to close one eye to make his objective, thus depriving him of peripheral vision that could well determine the stark choice between life and death on the battlefield. Conversely, the day and night sights, depending on their respective magnifications and sophistication, were more advanced, but expensive to import, costing upwards of Rs 50,000 each, for which reason the MoD had obviated their procurement.
1. What on earth is going on with the IA- we can’t get a battle rifle/ammo right.
2. We need to take the thesaurus away from the journalist.


I don’t know much about Sig rifles and nor can I speak about the 716 in particular. I do know Sig Sauer pistols and can say that their quality in general is one of the best I have seen in the industry.


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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by marksman » Thu May 19, 2022 6:32 pm

Unless and until the Gov't improves our Ammo manufacturing system, no weapon in the world will function satisfactorily ever. Even the Glock 19s issued to the police forces in Mumbai had to have its chambers polished (loosen tolerances in other words) to make the pistol work and cycle with the supplied IOF 9mm ammo. High time the Ministry Of Defense took a note of it and did something seriously worthwhile..

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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Thu May 19, 2022 10:17 pm

marksman wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:32 pm
Unless and until the Gov't improves our Ammo manufacturing system, no weapon in the world will function satisfactorily ever. Even the Glock 19s issued to the police forces in Mumbai had to have its chambers polished (loosen tolerances in other words) to make the pistol work and cycle with the supplied IOF 9mm ammo. High time the Ministry Of Defense took a note of it and did something seriously worthwhile..

Marksman
Exactly

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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by timmy » Fri May 20, 2022 11:36 am

winnie_the_pooh wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:17 pm
marksman wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:32 pm
Unless and until the Gov't improves our Ammo manufacturing system, no weapon in the world will function satisfactorily ever. Even the Glock 19s issued to the police forces in Mumbai had to have its chambers polished (loosen tolerances in other words) to make the pistol work and cycle with the supplied IOF 9mm ammo. High time the Ministry Of Defense took a note of it and did something seriously worthwhile..

Marksman
Exactly
+2

It is often forgotten that, for cartridge firearms, the cartridge case is almost more a part of the gun than it is part of the ammunition.

When the breech of the gun can be opened, some means must be provided to seal high pressure gasses in the chamber and only allow them to exit at the barrel muzzle (or gas port, if a gas operated semi automatic). The brass, steel, or aluminum cartridge case does this and the process is called obturation.

When the cartridge cases are not made with the right dimensions, or the material is not of the correct hardness or temper, then things are not likely to work correctly.
“You should tell someone what you know. There should be a history, so that men can learn from it."

He smiled. “Men do not learn from history. Each generation believes itself brighter than the last, each believes it can survive the mistakes of the older ones. Each discovers each old thing and they throw up their hands and say ‘See! Look what I have found! Look upon what I know!’ And each believes it is something new."


Louis L’Amour - "The Californios"

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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by Risala » Sun May 22, 2022 1:56 pm

Too much is being made out of the quality of IOF ammunition,can’t say about cycling in Glocks,but never had an issue with it in the Beretta 92 FS,fired a few thousand rounds without any problem.
Same goes for their .32 ACP,cycles well may be a very rare misfire…which is acceptable

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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by mundaire » Mon May 23, 2022 11:58 pm

Risala, the quality of ammo they make has seriously deteriorated since the late 1980's!
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Re: This does not make any sense

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Tue May 24, 2022 10:07 pm

Risala wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 1:56 pm
Same goes for their .32 ACP,cycles well may be a very rare misfire…which is acceptable
You may not want to fire the fresh lot of KF ammo.in your pistol.KF now only makes .32ACP +P ammo.

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