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INSAS

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Ace_doc
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Re: INSAS

Postby Ace_doc » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:07 am

nope , make it tequila and we are in business.



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jonahpach
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Re: INSAS

Postby jonahpach » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:23 am

Hello guys, longtime no see.. Had a chance to tryout the latest INSAS model this sunday and have experienced some more raves and rants.. no time to do the writeup today so will followup sometime tomorrow. Meanwhile here are some more pics

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Hokhay boys & Gurls heah’s some words to go along with them pics!
Had gone to a police training centre shooting range with a couple of friends to zero some scopes here in Aizawl this Sunday. After having had our fill of plinking and scope alignment with our ‘civvy’ guns, we were treated to a few shots each with the latest newly arrived ‘INSAS’ 5.56 rifle. The armourer was kind enough to give us a thorough ‘handling lesson’ with the rifle before we were allowed to handle it. Poor fellow, I did’nt have the heart to tell him that the first time I had ‘handled’ the rifle was more than 10 years ago at Pragati Maidan. Nevermind actually having fired it probably even before he had even heard about it. Any way, his tone and personal comments let me know that he wasn’t too impressed with it and that was good enough to let me know that we were on the same ‘wavelength’. BTW. I actually feel silly doing a writeup on the INSAS.. afterall there were four of us and we were allowed only one box of 20 cartridges between the four of us. Beggars cant be choosers eh?? As it happens, I am also probably the only civvy in India who has had the opportunity to fire a sum total of approximately 55 odd shots with the INSAS.
Fact : 1
Out of the box, the Insas is almost impossible to operate! The police armourer has to use sandpaper on the piston heads as they are very tight and tend to jam on a shoulder at the bottom of the cylinder pipe.
The rifle we tested was practically ‘brand new’ with approximately only about a 100 shots through it. Cocking handle was very stiff and tight. It actually made me feel like I was cocking an airgun! When one manages to actually fully pull back the cocking handle, one has to let go off it suddenly and with a bang otherwise the cartridge in the magazine cannot load properly. (More of this later)
Fact : 2
With the INSAS enemies have to be engaged only beyond 200 meters. The M-16 copy adjustable rear aperture sights is a flip over type and is marked at 200 and 400 meters! I know it is ‘out of the box’ and hopefully the sights can be tweaked. But at 200m adjustment, the foresight is barely visible as tin sheet clamps on the piston cover cannot keep it in place without it bulging out and hiding the line of sight! One might argue that this is an infantry rifle and not a sniper rifle and pin point accuracy is not required. But wasn’t that one of the reasons we switched to 5.56 from 7.62?
Fact :3
The latest INSAS looks cool.. yup! Switching to black coloured furniture from the orange coloured ones was a good move. What with the modern looking seethrough plastic magazine and dull grey phosphate coating (OFB seems to have mastered phosphating finally) This batch arrived a couple of weeks ago and is fresh from the factory. The finish is much better than the ones I have seen with the BSF and as shown by Cottagecheese. (maybe they read his post, the crude dot matrix type lettering is still there but no more trying to enhance it by rubbing it with paint) The flash hider looks really mean and is probably the best machined part of the rifle. (I bet it is being outsourced)
Fact : 4
All spent cartridges are automatically deformed
This is an amazing adaptation! All spent cartridges automatically get deformed thus defeating all ideas of reloading of spent INSAS cartridges. I guess this enables the armed forces to immediatedly sell the spent brass as junk without having to go through the hassles of having to manually deform them by having a road roller go over them. Jokes apart, It looks like the empty cartridge slams against the rear lip of the ejection port thus getting deformed in the process of ejection. This would mean there is a timing fault in the ejection mechanisim. Spent cartridges get thrown 15 – 30 ft. infront of the shooter. Also as can be seen in the photo, the lip of the magazine is too far down and as the mouth of the chamber is devoid of any kind of channel, The armourer claims that cartridges often hit the mouth of the chamber and get deformed thus leadin to loading problems before they enter the chamber.
More later..
Last edited by jonahpach on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.


Speak softly and carry a big gun!

cottage cheese
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Re: INSAS

Postby cottage cheese » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:58 am

:)

I wonder if the dented casings are an improvement of the latest model... perhaps its the establishments way of ensuring empties cannot reach maoists in any usable form...:)

At least the horrid brick-red furniture is being replaced...

regards,
cc


He who can not think, is a fool; he who will not, a bigot; he who dare not - a slave!

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nagarifle
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Re: INSAS

Postby nagarifle » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:05 pm

junk is junk, what more to say :?:


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

MoA
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Re: INSAS

Postby MoA » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:56 pm

Wow that brass is chewed up pretty bad. Looks like it is consistently hitting the pin thingie on the breech during ejection. Does the case eject to the front of the weapon?

Out of curiosity is the ammo Berdan or Boxer primed? Looking into the case should provide an answer. Single flash hole=Boxer. Multiple (2 or 3 or in IOF's case whaterver they came up with) would indicate berdan.



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jonahpach
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Re: INSAS

Postby jonahpach » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:10 am

Hello MOA, Unlike most OFB ammo I have seen, the primer is a boxer type. I don't know what this has got to do with the cartridge chew-up though..


Speak softly and carry a big gun!

MoA
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Re: INSAS

Postby MoA » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:40 pm

jonahpach wrote:Hello MOA, Unlike most OFB ammo I have seen, the primer is a boxer type. I don't know what this has got to do with the cartridge chew-up though..

Nothing to do with chew up. Its just that most mil spec ammo tends to be Berdan primed for some reason. (Excluding NATO). Was curious.

The cases can be full resized and reloaded. The dents would straighten up when fired, and recreated on ejection. Though I would worry about case integrity.

If the bullets are getting set back during loading into the chamber, it could potentially have massive increases in pressure. Which generally is not a good thing.



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nagarifle
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Re: INSAS

Postby nagarifle » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:46 am

what would be the chances of exploding in chamber? i mean if i was given one such cheap and nasty rifle i would not use it. better start learning bowling :lol:


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

ngrewal
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Re: INSAS

Postby ngrewal » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:37 am

This is absurd ..but agree looks more like a Galil in its new color avatar. Chewed up ammo something is int right here, go back to FAL or get a better military rifle they are being every other weapon under the Sun why not procure one weapon which will be used the most...

Thanks Jonah

How about the other guns there?

Best



Raj Malhotra
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Re: INSAS

Postby Raj Malhotra » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:47 pm

"The Indian rifles are supposed to brown as it is assumed that black rifle will become hot more quickly in deserts/hot days etc."

Hi Raj...apologies... I accidentally edited your post....my mistake!! :)



cottage cheese
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Re: INSAS

Postby cottage cheese » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:53 am

Raj Malhotra wrote:"The Indian rifles are supposed to brown as it is assumed that black rifle will become hot more quickly in deserts/hot days etc."


Hi Raj,

That assumption I believe, is being perpetuated by some "knowledgeable" folks in the establishment.

While theoretically true, it shouldn't be a major national issue or be the subject of several crores worth of phoney research if, simply, the choice of material is good and the design is well considered.

One doesn't see all black furniture of M16's/M4s/M249s/Galils/FALs/AK74s etc. giving any major problem in thus respect.... One can imagine M16A2s in that hideous brick red furniture.... :)

Regards,
cc


He who can not think, is a fool; he who will not, a bigot; he who dare not - a slave!

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TRX
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Re: INSAS

Postby TRX » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:28 pm

Is there some place where an INSAS user's or armorer's manual might be found online?



cottage cheese
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Re: INSAS

Postby cottage cheese » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:25 am

TRX wrote:Is there some place where an INSAS user's or armorer's manual might be found online?


Highly unlikely. No one in the forces have ever seen one either.


He who can not think, is a fool; he who will not, a bigot; he who dare not - a slave!

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nagarifle
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Re: INSAS

Postby nagarifle » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:58 am

if they did they will not understand what it says :lol:


Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

m24
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Re: INSAS

Postby m24 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:48 pm

TRX wrote:Is there some place where an INSAS user's or armorer's manual might be found online?

Nope. That's a DIY project.

Regards


Jeff Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun safety:
1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it.


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