Why Brother TC is a very bad influence here...

[herb]

Timmy, Agree with you about TC.

Congrats on becoming the new custodian of a wonderful piece of history, looking forward to hearing more about it.

Thanks for the video and all the information about the Martini's, enjoyed it.

Herb

[xl_target]

To see why some of us think this rifle is so cool, you have to have watched the movie ZULU.

For those of you who have never seen ZULU, you can watch it on YouTube.
Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOoCrCeHxpI

[timmy]

You are so right, XL!

I first saw this movie on TV with my Dad -- I might have been in 6th or 7th grade at the time. The movie made a HUGE impression on me that has never faded, even after I learned the historical facts about the battle.

During the first part of my married life and while we raised our kids out West, we didn't have a TV, so I had no opportunity to see Zulu again. In 1994, I was working on a project in Scotland and staying at the Sheraton at the base of the castle in Edinburgh. While packing to go home, I was flipping through the channels on the TV and there was Zulu, nearing the climax. Of course, the end of the movie is quite dramatic, with the soldiers singing "Men of Harlech." (Stanley Baker, who starred in and helped produce the film, was famously proud of being Welsh, so Welsh things are very pronounced in the film.)

After I got home, the Hewlett Packard people from Queensferry came out to Denver for awhile, and I told one of them about seeing the movie in Edinburgh and how stirring that part is. He told me that he was a huge football fan, and he said that, while he always roots for Scotland (of course!) when the Welsh come to play, before the game starts they will all stand and sing "Men of Harlech." He said that it always made the hair on the back of his neck stand up when they sang this song. I can well imagine!

I once showed this movie to a gun buff friend who had never seen it, and he was totally blown away by it. As XL says, it is a heck of a yarn and very entertaining!

But beware! If you watch it, you will always carry a secret urge to get your own Martini Henry afterwards!

[xl_target]

But beware! If you watch it, you will always carry a secret urge to get your own Martini Henry afterwards!

Thats for sure.

....Its a short chamber Boxer Henry point four five caliber miracle
... and a Bayonet, sir....

[essdee1972]

But beware! If you watch it, you will always carry a secret urge to get your own Martini Henry afterwards!

Now that's one movie I'll make sure never to watch!

By the way, Rorke's Drift was immediately after / simultaneous with Isandhlwana, right? Natural for the Empire to hype it up, after a much larger force got totally decimated at the latter place! Imagine, assegais got the better of Martini's on the larger field! If I remember right, Rorke's Drift was the day when the highest number of Victoria Crosses were awarded, or is it Lucknow, 1857? (I CAN look it up, but a discussion here is so much more interesting than Wikipedia!)

Henry Rider Haggard has an interesting perspective on Isandhlwana!

Timmy, I am no Royalist, either, but can't help be impressed by how a country which one could almost miss on the world map, ruled over half of the same world!

[brihacharan]

But beware! If you watch it, you will always carry a secret urge to get your own Martini Henry afterwards!

Now that's one movie I'll make sure never to watch!

By the way, Rorke's Drift was immediately after / simultaneous with Isandhlwana, right? Natural for the Empire to hype it up, after a much larger force got totally decimated at the latter place! Imagine, assegais got the better of Martini's on the larger field! If I remember right, Rorke's Drift was the day when the highest number of Victoria Crosses were awarded, or is it Lucknow, 1857? (I CAN look it up, but a discussion here is so much more interesting than Wikipedia!)

Henry Rider Haggard has an interesting perspective on Isandhlwana!

Timmy, I am no Royalist, either, but can't help be impressed by how a country which one could almost miss on the world map, ruled over half of the same world!

This question has been arising in my mind for over half a century
IMHO - I realize that the answer lies in "TWO WORDS".......DISCIPLINE + DIPLOMACY
Briha

[xl_target]

Timmy, I am no Royalist, either, but can't help be impressed by how a country which one could almost miss on the world map, ruled over half of the same world!

You're quite correct, Esdee.
Whether one agrees with what they did or not, one can't help admiring their spirit, their sense of national self-worth and their daring.

[ckkalyan]

Ah, this discussion is certainly gaining momentum and bringing on a huge nostalgic flavor...keep it up gents!

That reminds me of how I was completely fascinated by the Assegai and Zulu (literally A to Z):

[timmy]

That looks like an interesting book, ck. Tell us something about it.

[timmy]

My Son has received the package!

Here are three pics he sent me:







This last one is on the bottom of the trigger guard. Again, if anyone here can read Nepali, I'd appreciate knowing what this says!

My Son and I facetimed tonight and he "showed me around" this new toy. What I found interesting is that this seems like a Mk IV C. In other words, it is not an A or B version, both of which (as I understand it) were converted from a .402 cartridge that was introduced and withdrawn upon the adoption of the .303. All .402s were converted to 577/450 and remarked.

The other interesting thing we looked for was an an Indian arsenal rework, like some other pictures reveal on other Martini Henrys in the Nepal Treasure stash. We could find none on this rifle, so I'm assuming this rifle somehow went from British to Nepali service directly, or was taken from the Indian Army directly without an arsenal rework. I also find the serial number, which is just "295," interesting.

I can't wait to get my hands on this big boomer and start burning charcoal -- at least, if I decide to use black powder. I may go with smokeless, but there are so many things to learn that I don't want to say, one way or another.

[Moin.]

Hi Timmy; Heartiest Congratulations on the acquistion. I came to know and saw first hand old treasures like edged weapons are imported/smuggled out of the country in the name of handicrafts and reach international auction houses. I also read some where how the old H&H, Purdeys of the maharajas etc were brought and taken out of country. Used to sadden me a lot, but now I realised that it is so much better than these rotting in someones basement, someones wall or some govt armouries.

How we fail to value what little treasures we have left in the country, look at the condition of historical buildings, conditions of most museums. It is so much better that these treasures find themselves in the hands of people like you Timmy who value it so so much and know its historical significance rather than rotting here to nothing. The 0.00000001% who know of its value here can't access it here due to laws etc anyways.

My ignorance on the subject but I'm sure its something very special like TCDa's rifle, so heartiest congratulations. Hope you get it up and running again.

Regards
Moin.

[ckkalyan]

timmy my best guess!

The first row of letters says 'Ja' 'Va' 9 (probably stands for Jan 09)



The second row says No. 96 (stands for Number 96); Can't explian why the english Sl No. is 95



Here, I am making some assumptions that the Nepali characters are the same (very similar) to Devanagri (Hindi) script and numerals

[Vikram]

Timmy,

What a brilliant piece of history that you have acquired! Hearty congratulations. I can imagine how thrilled you must be and how you must be chafing at the bit to get this bad boy in your hands.

The rifle looks to be in a sound condition.

TC is definitely a bad influence around this forum.

Best-
Vikram

[timmy]

@ck - Thanks, ck. Could these numbers be some sort of unit identification?

@Moin - Moin: The export of treasures is definitely an issue in many countries, as well as this situation with Nepal. I think that there are positions on either side of the matter that are quite defensible. Apparently, the rifle I got was bought in pretty dirty condition and cleaned by that person, although I have no idea if he bought it from the Americans that bought and imported them, or if there were one or more stages of ownership in between. However, he sold it to the dealer I bought it from for some reason. That part of the story does give me pause for thought.

Actually, the same issue exists regarding my RFI 2A. I know that there are many Indians who would give whatever to own one, yet they are shipped over here and foreigners can buy and sell them at will. Such a thing is quite distressing.

The only thing I can hope for is that all of you know my sentiments, and know that I not only value these two guns, but recognize that I have a special responsibility for them. I hope you all know that this makes them mean much more to me than other guns bought by other buyers outside of India, as it provides a link of commonality between us. I certainly hope that, when you see me posting such things here, that you think that I'm not just someone who buys a gun to have it, or am someone who wants to basely wave something in front of you that you cannot have. Rather, I very much hope you know that these things have come into the possession of someone who knows a tiny bit about your culture, history, and values, and who appreciates them very much, and who bought these things specifically to access your culture, history, and values, and to establish real links of commonality.

@Vikram: I do want to get my hands on it, but I don't think it has really occurred to me that I can't do that -- yet! I'm still trying to study the intricacies of loading for the thing without spending an arm and a leg.

My Son and I went over it together while using facetime last night. It seems like it's all there and working. Justin operated it and everything works, including the extractor (which I was a bit worried about). He says the bore looks pretty good. I think it is mostly ready when I am.

Regarding TC, I hope that, if he comes here, he knows he has a sentence to serve in New Mexico!

[TC]

Dear Timmy,
For four days I have been reading the posts and your updates but could not reply because my boss conspired and humped every non-weapon stuff on earth on me
First things first. "Paper patch" !! Now that's something I always wanted to try. So, if you do please share.
Otherwise the die you posted looks nice. Making your own ammo should be the easiest thing for you since you are an expert on the subject. I am sure those hand loaded ammo will give the beauty a new lease of life.
Loved the pics your son sent you... and loved that couch too I could sleep in that for a week

Our buddies have done a great job with the script. But I am trying to figure our the mystery over 95 and 96.
Well, Face Time wont do for long and I am sure you are as jittery as I feel here.

Now coming to "Zulu". I missed it as a kid and so went hunting for a disc in the market. Found another movie called 'Zulu Dawn', starring Burt Lancaster, Peter O Toole and Simon Ward. Its a two VCD pack with the cover showing British soldiers firing their Enfield rifles at charging tribesmen. Zulu Dawn is the
prequel to Zulu.

from here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Dawn

Zulu Dawn is a 1979 war film about the historical Battle of Isandlwana between British and Zulu forces in 1879 in South Africa. The screenplay was by Cy Endfield, from his book, and Anthony Story. The film was directed by Douglas Hickox. The score was composed by Elmer Bernstein.
Zulu Dawn is a prequel to Zulu, released in 1964, which depicts the historical Battle of Rorke's Drift later the same day, and was co-written and directed by Cy Endfield.

Isn't it strange that both the moves are based on a book written by someone who directed Zulu in 1964 and wrote the screenplay of Zulu Dawn in 1979. His name ..... CY Endfield

And Now

Regarding TC, I hope that, if he comes here, he knows he has a sentence to serve in New Mexico!

Your Honour I plead double guilty and humbly request you to revise the order to "life sentence"
Once in Heaven, who on earth would ever want to return to Hell only to run again from pillar to post for a licence and move banks for a loan to buy a 100 dollar gun for a few lakhs

Waiting to see the rifle "at home"


TC