Thoughts on New Light Arms CF007 (Walther PPK look alike)

[Pratipalsinh Jadeja]

New Light arms Walther PPK look alike is quite popular amongst gun fanatics, I also saw videos of the weapon firing on youtube, I know that the gun barrel has "IOF (RFI) TESTED" written on it which a lot of people are talking about....

The price however is very debatable, In gujarat some gun dealers are asking 3.25L for it, whilst in Punjab some dealers are quoting 2.2L and 2L. A lot of people are still skeptical regarding the weapon, As it is from a newer entrant in the gun manufacturer club.

It is very surprising how Indian manufacturers are simply copying designs from the west and also name in some cases...
The Newlight Arms CF007 is basically Walther PPK
The Gretta logo and name is supposedly from Beretta.
and so on and so for.....

CARE TO WEIGH IN

[officialdevlprs]

CF007 is a great pistol i can say that because i own it. i bought it in december 2022. very good weapon never had any issue with it. Gretta offer more round capacity where as CF007 only have 7+1. CF007 is proof tested so i trust it more then anything else. in .32 bore this is the best option available in indian market. if sheikh arms didnt messed up with their raptor pistol with cheap quality that would be my first choice without any doubt but just lost their mind and made a useless weapon they got the chance to win the indian market but they just lost their chance otherwise their raptor would be the best pistol in .32 bore with 1911 design best replica of LLAMA .32. CF007 is great weapon It looks great feels great and also perform really good. till now i dont find any replacement for this pistol...I was planning to switch to .45 Champion but .45 is fascinating when were see it and talk about it but in my opinion it is not a practical bore in terms of self defence. where as .32 is more accurate and easy to carry.

[timmy]

.45 is fascinating when were see it and talk about it but in my opinion it is not a practical bore in terms of self defence. where as .32 is more accurate and easy to carry.

45 Auto is not a practical self defense round?

I would like to see the data that you can provide which supports such a theory.

45 Auto is less accurate than 32 Auto?

I would like to see the data that you can provide which supports such a theory, as well.

I don't believe either of these things.

How many rounds or 32 Auto have you fired through your CF007?

How many rounds of 45 Auto have you fired, and through what gun?

Just wondering . . .

[Pratipalsinh Jadeja]

CF007 is great weapon It looks great feels great and also perform really good. till now i dont find any replacement for this pistol...I was planning to switch to .45 Champion but .45 is fascinating when were see it and talk about it but in my opinion it is not a practical bore in terms of self defence. where as .32 is more accurate and easy to carry.

Its nice to know the first hand experience from someone who owns the weapon, My Brother is thinking of buying it, At what price did you buy the weapon and from where?

On the contrary, .45 is definitely a lethal and life taking bore, more powerful than the .32 so for self defence if you're shooting to kill .45 is a better bore than .32 as the bullet does more damage, I don't know about the accuracy so would not be able to comment on that.

let me know the price of the CF007.

[casual shooter]

IMHO
its the second shot which is very very important if you need to have an effective stopping policy.
double tap for instance.
unless you are very accustomed and practiced levelling the handgun for a second shot with .45 will be a difficult task.
secondly the first shot placement is very important.
head, sternum solar plexus (IVC) in that order..
regards

[Kittu]

IMHO
its the second shot which is very very important if you need to have an effective stopping policy.
double tap for instance.
unless you are very accustomed and practiced levelling the handgun for a second shot with .45 will be a difficult task.
secondly the first shot placement is very important.
head, sternum solar plexus (IVC) in that order..
regards

In matter of life and death most important is to draw your weapon as fast as you can point at intruder and shoot as fast as you can from hip position you might not get chance to aim and shoot. you can think of 2nd shot only if you survive first shot from attacker. even if you miss vital organs in first shot there are great chance .45 bullet will still stop attacker .32 will not. You cannot shoot even .22 pistol accurately if you don't practice. .Have seen many shooter hitting 10 out of 10 bullet in middle of target and in a state qualifying match same shooter hitting 6,4 his legs starts shaking,sweating and blood pressure sky rockets because of pressure.so not only practice but practice to shoot under pressure.

[eljefe]

I agree with you about .45 acp NOT being a suitable / practical.
It is a big cartridge and platform.
Needs familiarisation, BIIG ish hands and ‘prints’ through clothing - cant carry very well concealed under a shirt in a waist holster.especially if the stature is small.
I’ve seen a lot of NSG types in a safari suit where the handgun was easily printing on the waist or small of back carry. Presumably they were carrying Glocks?

BUT- once you practice and develop confidence, and learn to use the gun, it’s the mother of all calibers and handguns.
I’ll try to post pics of my 16yr old daughter using full house loads and her targets at 25 m with a Colt Goldcup National match Trophy. Shocked me.
Understandably, she has unlimited ammo and practice opportunities and a complete familiarity with that handgun.

As for the lethality, the .45 has proved it self as a man stopper par excellence over a 100 years.

With initial recoil acceptance and limited ammo to practice, yes, 5 rounds a month are not going to cut the mustard.
And your recoil perception and flinch will also dictate confidence levels and performance.

So go for a caliber where you can practice and be confident…

[casual shooter]

HK .45 USP commercial
enjoy
"It's not about caliber or the type of handgun. This scene is all about emphasizing the overwhelming superiority of Tom Cruise's character's training. As in real life when man and machine come together to complete a task, as long as the machine is not too obsolete or in disrepair, the man will be the majority of the equation."
quoted from footnotes of above post..

[eljefe]

Story has it he was trained by an ex SAS squaddie for this hip shooting, and it was all ‘one take’

[model 31-1]

How is the quality of the cf007? Can't seem to find any reviews of it unlike the Gretta brahmastra.

Visited a gun shop today and the dealer was apprehensive of the quality and was suggesting brahmastra is a superior quality product.

Thoughts?

[pokhar]

HK .45 USP commercial
enjoy
"It's not about caliber or the type of handgun. This scene is all about emphasizing the overwhelming superiority of Tom Cruise's character's training. As in real life when man and machine come together to complete a task, as long as the machine is not too obsolete or in disrepair, the man will be the majority of the equation."
quoted from footnotes of above post..

Hi,
I am afraid this is possible with single action pistol, I believe revolver action pistol like Walther ppk is most suitable weapon for self defence.
That's why I am also waiting for performance reviews of cf007. Although Indian pistols like Atal and victor have advantages of more rounds in magazine, but in my opinion in real battle (self-defense) one might not be able to persist till 6-7 rounds.

[timmy]

Hi,
I believe revolver action pistol like Walther ppk is most suitable weapon for self defence.
That's why I am also waiting for performance reviews of cf007. Although Indian pistols like Atal and victor have advantages of more rounds in magazine, but in my opinion in real battle (self-defense) one might not be able to persist till 6-7 rounds.

The trouble with double action pistols (which is what I assume you are calling "revolver action pistol") is the same as with revolvers: The double action trigger pull of such pistols is usually quite a bit heavier than the subsequent rounds fired, which are fired single action, the movement of the slide having cocked the hammer, rather than doing so by the trigger.

This is similar to shooting a double action revolver, except that following shots are also fired double action: the hammer is also cocked by the trigger, which also rotates the cylinder for every round.

For double action revolver training and use for self-defense, snub nosed revolvers often have the hammer cocking spur "bobbed," as it is not used for self defense and can hang up on clothing. Other snub nosed revolvers are available with the hammer shrouded by an added cover, or by a special frame with high sides to completely cover the hammer.

Such revolvers are fired in double action mode only, and not in single action, which is more suitable for accuracy in target shooting, due to the much lighter trigger pull.

For the double action/Single action pistol, like the Walther PP series and the Czech CZ 50 and CZ 70, training must include using both modes, an additional complication.

There are three ways around this problem for self defense pistols:

1. Design a more effective action where the trigger pull on the hammer-cocking double action first shot is closer to the subsequent single action shots. This requires a design improvement over the 90 year old Walther design.

2. Use single action only. The old way of designing for this is with an effective safety and carrying the pistol cocked, such as the famous 1911. Mose single action pistols, unfortunately don't have an effective positive hammer block safety like the 1911, however. The newer designs often use a striker-fired action with an effective safety mounted in the trigger, where the gun is carried cocked and locked," and disengaging the safety is accomplished by pulling the two- part trigger. This eliminates the need to disengage the safety as on the 1911.

3. Use a double action only, as in snub nosed revolvers. One example of this are the Kahr pistols, which are also striker-fired. There is no way to fire such pistols in single action, but the cocking of the striker is accomplished with a lighter trigger pull than in the older Walther design, due to design enhancements.

[pokhar]

Dear Timmy sir,
Thanks for your detailed reply. Kindly let us know about function of the trigger safety. Is it available in Indian Atal and victor and if yes can we really rely on it by keeping pistol in loaded/cocked position?

[timmy]

Dear Timmy sir,
Thanks for your detailed reply. Kindly let us know about function of the trigger safety. Is it available in Indian Atal and victor and if yes can we really rely on it by keeping pistol in loaded/cocked position?

Pokharji, I can't tell you whether the trigger safety is available on the Atal or not for two reasons: Firstly, I've never handled one, and Secondly, nobody who has, has seen fit to post a description of the pistol anywhere that I could find. Note here, I'm not referring to the "what a pretty box" videos and the "how to take the pistol out of the box" videos, or the "Watch me shoot at a bank of dirt" videos. These are practically useless for the purpose of understanding a weapon and judging its suitability for one's need.

Here is a picture of a Canik TP9SA Mod 2, which is made in Türkiye:



(I'm posting this photo because it shows the trigger well and, yes, I want one! Click on the photo to enlarge.)

Often in pistols with a trigger that looks like this, the safety that is in the center accomplishes two functions: firstly, it acts as a trigger block: the trigger cannot be hit or pulled unless the center safety portion is completely depressed. Secondly, it also deactivates a firing pin block.

A firing pin block often works like this: the firing pin has a groove cut into its side. Coming up vertically from the frame, there is a small rod that fits into the groove in the firing pin. The safety or trigger pushes up on the rod and causes it to disengage from the groove in the firing pin, so that the firing pin can move forward to hit the cartridge primer. Unless the safety or trigger is purposely depressed, the firing pin is locked can the weapon can't discharge.

A Glock, which has a trigger like this, adds an additional function: The gun operates half-way between double action and single action, as the striker is cocked half way when the gun is fired, and pulling the safety-trigger cocks the striker the other half of the way. This puts the gun in a position after firing where it is less likely that the striker would have enough energy to fire a round, should the firing pin block fail (which is very unlikely).

Nowadays, especially in hunting rifles and shotguns, it is common for the so-called "safety" to simply block the trigger from being depressed, or block the sear's engagement with the hammer or striker. Look at an old Mauser rifle: you'll see that the flag safety at the rear of the bolt engages the firing pin directly. Pull the trigger, drop the rifle, do your best, but the gun will not fire because steel engages steel and it must be broken before the gun can fire.

These kinds of integrated trigger safeties can be very effective if they are designed and built correctly. For instance, it is the only safety in a Glock -- there are no others. That is the same with the Canik in the picture I posted.

Similarly in pistols, There are "safeties" and there are real safeties: the best designs will place a block of solid steel in the travel of the hammer (like a Colt 1911) or in the way of the firing pin (like a Glock or some CZ pistols) so that even if the gun is dropped, it will not go off and possibly shoot you!

The Colt Pocket Pistol and many other pistols, like, I believe, the Ashani, only block the trigger or the sear. This means that if the thin edge of the sear or the thin notch on the hammer break when the gun is dropped, the gun will go off, even if the safety is set. Much is made by some of the grip safety in the 1911, but it doesn't make the gun much safer if it is dropped for this reason.

A similar problem exists with the Chinese "Star," or Tokarev TT33 copy: the only safety is a half cock notch in the hammer, and if the pistol is dropped, it is quite possible for the small thin edge of the sear or the notch of the hammer to fail, causing a discharge. Also, it's possible for the tiny pin the sear rides on to fail with the same result. So the Star, like all of the trigger and sear blocking safeties are not safe to carry with a round in the chamber.

The result of this is that the gun, to be used for self defense, must have the slide racked to feed a round into the empty chamber before it is ready for duty. This was not a consideration for a military weapon (early French military rifles had no safety at all: one fed a round into the chamber when one was ready to shoot!). Stalin's objection to dismountable magazines, like the AK-47, was that the typical Soviet soldier was quite stupid and would lose the magazine. If a few soldiers were killed by negligent discharge, that was no issue to him. Likewise, the British Sten didn't have a particularly safe safety design, either, but at least they were cheap to make, but apparently in all of these considerations, cheapness of the gun was of more value than the cheap soldier's life!

For myself, I want a real safety that is going to block the firing of the gun with steel on steel, not some pretend device that simply blocks the trigger. I fel the same way about rifles and shotguns, too, though I do own some that don't do this.

Here are a couple of wikipedia pages you may want to check:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(firearms)

There's a lot of information on this page, but look at the "types" section first. Look at the rest if you want to know more, but "Types" is germane to your question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_%28firearms%29

Here, you should look at firing pin block, hammer block, and transfer bar. (The transfer bar is often used on Ruger handguns). Also look at Integrated Trigger Safety. As above, gain what you can from the rest of the page, but these paragraphs are meaningful to your questions.

One aspect of modern guns is the proliferation of designs. A hundred years ago, if one knew the basic designs, figuring out how something new worked wasn't difficult. But now, there are so many new designs that have different principles of operation, one almost has to study each gun to figure out how it works.

Modern guns also have a lot of little parts. These are often made by modern processes from stamped metal, sintered metal, but often with some sort of metal that has been properly heat treated, which is the real trick. Back years ago, small metal parts were often cut out of a chunk of metal and the heat treating of the part was questionable.

When I was young and worked on electro-mechanical telecom switching equipment, the company issued a pair of small double ended wrenches to work on the equipment. They were obviously stamped and ugly, compared to the shiny automotive wrenches of the day. I found out about how good those "cheap" wrenches were when i tried to engrave my name on them: The engraver's hardened tip bounced all over the surface of the metal, but didn't engrave my name! The stamping of the wrench acted as a sort of forging and the surface of the wrench was very hard, indeed. During all of those years, I never heard of one of those wrenches bending or breaking!

So be careful of judging "a book by its cover"! Parts made by processes that used to only be used for cheap things are now used to make very serviceable parts more cheaply, holding down the cost of production. Or, they may simply be more of the same old junk. It's up to us, the gun buyers, to figure out the junk from the good stuff, which is why we share our knowledge and experience here on IFG.