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Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

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sumbriavikramaditya
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Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby sumbriavikramaditya » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:25 pm

Hi guys,

Can anyone help me in finding if my dad's Type54 Pistol (with Chinese marking on it) is original or not?

There are some videos on YouTube in which a Pakistani guy discusses this issue,
https://youtu.be/Z9ylMEsBLIc
here is the link to that video.

But I want the advise of our knowledgeable members. Please show me the way.

Regards
Vikramaditya Singh



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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vikram » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:12 am

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:Hi guys,

Can anyone help me in finding if my dad's Type54 Pistol (with Chinese marking on it) is original or not?

There are some videos on YouTube in which a Pakistani guy discusses this issue,
https://youtu.be/Z9ylMEsBLIc
here is the link to that video.

But I want the advise of our knowledgeable members. Please show me the way.

Regards
Vikramaditya Singh



Clear photos taken in daylight would help.


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby sumbriavikramaditya » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am

Vikram wrote:Clear photos taken in daylight would help.


Sure, would you suggest to show the serial number too?

Regards



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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vineet » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:25 am

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:Hi guys,

Can anyone help me in finding if my dad's Type54 Pistol (with Chinese marking on it) is original or not?
Regards
Vikramaditya Singh


Fake Type 54 also have chinese letters on them. So we can not make out whether its original or copy by merely Chinese letters.

Original type 54 made before 1980 will have eight digit serial no. followed by 66 and then 1966, something like this ******** 66 1966.

Those made after 1980 will have Chrome barrel (blued from outside) and serial no. will be eight digit followed by 66, something like ******** 66. Barrel, barrel bush and firing unit will have last four digits of serial no. on them.

We can determine the year of manufacture of the pistol by adding 53 and the first two digit of the serial no. For example if the serial no.is starting from 11 and the pistol was manufactured in 53+11=64 which means 1964. If the serial no. is 32 then 53+32= 85 (1985) and so on.

Sometimes government change the serial no. of the consificated weapons that they allot to the army and civilians and put their own no.

All type 54 pistols with wide serration on the slide are copy because China never made them with wide serration marks.

The guy in the video says type54 pistol magazine holds seven rounds which is not true. It holds eight rounds.


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby sumbriavikramaditya » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:13 pm

d
Vineet wrote:Fake Type 54 also have chinese letters on them. So we can not make out whether its original or copy by merely Chinese letters.

Original type 54 made before 1980 will have eight digit serial no. followed by 66 and then 1966, something like this ******** 66 1966.

Those made after 1980 will have Chrome barrel (blued from outside) and serial no. will be eight digit followed by 66, something like ******** 66. Barrel, barrel bush and firing unit will have last four digits of serial no. on them.

We can determine the year of manufacture of the pistol by adding 53 and the first two digit of the serial no. For example if the serial no.is starting from 11 and the pistol was manufactured in 53+11=64 which means 1964. If the serial no. is 32 then 53+32= 85 (1985) and so on.

Sometimes government change the serial no. of the consificated weapons that they allot to the army and civilians and put their own no.

All type 54 pistols with wide serration on the slide are copy because China never made them with wide serration marks.

The guy in the video says type54 pistol magazine holds seven rounds which is not true. It holds eight rounds.


Thanks Vineet,

As stated by you, my dad's pistol has 8 digit number inscribed on it followed by '66' just above the pistol grip on left side. Barrel, Barrel Bush and Hammer Assembly also have the last four digits of same number, which were above the pistol grip, inscribed on them. But the digits inscribed on Barrel and Hammer Assembly are not symmetrically punched on the metal, they are placed together but in one alignment.

There are three Chinese characters on the top of slide with same 8 digit number as on left side of pistol grip.

I calculated the year of manufacturing as 1984 but as you told only pistols manufactured before 1980 had 8 digit serial numbers.

Yes, this pistol is allotted by Govt. but there is no sign of erasing old numbers.

And the Serration marks are not wide. I have seen some specimen on internet with wide serration marks but ours is not like them. They are same as on Chinese Service Pistols.

Our Pistol also has 8 round capacity.

Regards.



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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vikram » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:39 pm

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:
Vikram wrote:Clear photos taken in daylight would help.


Sure, would you suggest to show the serial number too?

Regards


Please do.

Added in 31 seconds:
Vineet wrote:
sumbriavikramaditya wrote:Hi guys,

Can anyone help me in finding if my dad's Type54 Pistol (with Chinese marking on it) is original or not?
Regards
Vikramaditya Singh


Fake Type 54 also have chinese letters on them. So we can not make out whether its original or copy by merely Chinese letters.

Original type 54 made before 1980 will have eight digit serial no. followed by 66 and then 1966, something like this ******** 66 1966.

Those made after 1980 will have Chrome barrel (blued from outside) and serial no. will be eight digit followed by 66, something like ******** 66. Barrel, barrel bush and firing unit will have last four digits of serial no. on them.

We can determine the year of manufacture of the pistol by adding 53 and the first two digit of the serial no. For example if the serial no.is starting from 11 and the pistol was manufactured in 53+11=64 which means 1964. If the serial no. is 32 then 53+32= 85 (1985) and so on.

Sometimes government change the serial no. of the consificated weapons that they allot to the army and civilians and put their own no.

All type 54 pistols with wide serration on the slide are copy because China never made them with wide serration marks.

The guy in the video says type54 pistol magazine holds seven rounds which is not true. It holds eight rounds.


Excellent info, Vineet. Cheers.


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vineet » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:08 pm

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:But the digits inscribed on Barrel and Hammer Assembly are not symmetrically punched on the metal, they are placed together but in one alignment.

Yes last four digits stamped on the barrel are most of the time little up and down. Looks like the are punched by hands and that is perfectly ok.

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:I calculated the year of manufacturing as 1984 but as you told only pistols manufactured before 1980 had 8 digit serial numbers.

All pistols have eight digit serial no. followed by only 66 or year of manufacture like 1964, 1965 along with 66.


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vineet » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:41 pm

Vikram wrote:Excellent info, Vineet. Cheers.

Thanks Vikram.

Here's a very good article on Chinese Tokarev pistols
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... al-models/


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vineet » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:02 am

The pistol shown in the thread below is not an original one
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3785


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby goodboy_mentor » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:30 pm

Very good information. But isn't it easy for counterfeiters to stamp similar serial numbers and make almost exact replica of the originals? If yes, then how does one find the difference?

About eight or seven cartridge magazine capacity in these pistols, some people usually consider loading one or two less cartridges less than the maximum capacity of the magazine of any firearm. Their reasoning is, it is done to prevent the magazine spring from getting entangled with itself, causing magazine malfunction. I do not know how scientifically sound is this reasoning.


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vineet » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:34 am

Vineet wrote:
goodboy_mentor wrote:Very good information. But isn't it easy for counterfeiters to stamp similar serial numbers and make almost exact replica of the originals? If yes, then how does one find the difference?


Serial no. is not only the thing to identify counterfeit and original but one can always start with serial no.

Parts of counterfeit pistols are not interchangeable where as in original they are. On looking closely parts of counterfeit pistol will show a lots of inconsistency. For example the two firing pins of tokarev pistols shown in the pics below.

Upper one is of the original pistol whereas below one is of the counterfeit pistol. All original pistols will have same type of firing pins but in counterfeit pistols firing pins (and other parts) will vary in lengths and shapes.

Image

Image


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:01 pm

Thanks guys. Now I am confident that my dad's pistol is a genuine one. Thanks a lot Vineet, Vikram and Good_mentor for your contributions.

Regards.



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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby sumbriavikramaditya » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:12 pm

This is the pistol I was talking about.
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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby goodboy_mentor » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:16 pm

Vineet wrote:Parts of counterfeit pistols are not interchangeable where as in original they are. On looking closely parts of counterfeit pistol will show a lots of inconsistency. For example the two firing pins of tokarev pistols shown in the pics below.
Very Good. Thanks for clarifying with pictures.


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Re: Identifying Original Type54 Pistol (Chinese Copy of TT33)

Postby Vineet » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:50 pm

sumbriavikramaditya wrote:This is the pistol I was talking about.

This is 100% original pistol with chrome barrel and in very good condition. Congrats for owning such a beauty.


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