Safe Way to Carry a Hammerless Pistol

[sumit.technocrat]

No doubt that Glock and Springfield XD series pistols are considered to be the safest concealed carry pistols across the globe.

[timmy]

I am adding a response to this old thread because I am going to refer to it in a new thread, in which the same subject has come up again.

1. Carrying a semiautomatic pistol with the chamber empty, i.e., "Israeli carry": two considerations must be addressed here that are related. Firstly, the Israeli MOSSAD was/is? taught to carry small 22 Berettas this way. Note that this was for assassination purposes, not self defense. The carrier was attacking someone and knew when and how the attack would be made. Secondly, we are talking here of defensive carry, when a person is attacked, probably with little or no warning. There won't likely be an opportunity to rack the slide and chamber a round in such circumstances, as an attacker who chooses the time and place of an attack would do. The "Israeli carry" option, in other words, may be satisfactory for carrying in an attack mode, but not a defensive mode. Question: can one be sure that both of their hands will be free to rack the slide when an attack comes? This is the risk one must assume if the "Israeli carry" is used. For myself, assuming this risk is to great a burden to bear.

This reminds me of a story of my youth, when I worked in a section of town that was dangerous to be in at night time. Those of us who worked the evening shift, from 1600 to midnight, all carried. This was forbidden by our company's regulations, but the bosses all turned their heads because they knew it was dangerous to be outside at night time. This is when I began to carry an Astra 25 Automatic. One old guy carried a 6 inch barreled Smith & Wesson 38. This isnt the sort of gun one can carry concealed, so he carried it in his briefcase. Sure enough, the guy who mugged him in the parking lot after his shift did not give the courtesy of allowing my co worker to retrieve his large gun from his briefcase to defend himself. About a year later, this gun was recovered from a car involved in a grocery store robbery. Who knows how many other acts it had been involved in?

So, will the goon allow you time to rack your pistol's slide?

People often say that safety is the most important thing. I disagree. What is most important is to perform a task safely. When I used to fly a lot, the airline people would say that safety was their most important task. I always wanted to shout out that I could stay at home and be safer than getting into their flying cattle car. What is important is that they must fly me safely to my destination. I don't need to go to the airport to be safe.

Likewise, I want to carry my weapon safely to be ready to perform a task. If I want to just be safe, I can stay at home away from threats. Carrying with an empty chamber means that, in any set of possible situations, the gun that I'm carrying is useless if it is not prepared to do its job. In such cases, the gun is just as likely, if not moreso, to provide a goon with another weapon to use for their evil deeds as it is for me to use it to protect myself.

2. The Colt 1903 and 1908 "Hammerless" pocket pistols are not hammerless. They are not striker-fired. They have a hammer that is concealed under the back of the slide. They operate like any other hammer-fired pistol in that there is a special catch, called a sear, that engages a small flat surface on the hammer, holding it back until the sear is released, allowing the hammer to fall. Releasing the sear is usually accomplished by a push from the trigger mechanism.

Some may think that the 1903 and the 1908 Colt pistols are the same as the Browing Model 1922, which is what I believe the Ashani is based on. No, the Browning 1922 differs in a number of ways from the Colt pocket pistols. For one thing, the recoil spring, which is underneath the barrel on the Colt pistols, is around the barrel on the Browning, making the front of the pistol more slender and round.

But for our discussion here, the Browning 1922 is striker fired -- it doesn't have a hammer. but in the case of the Colts with the hammer and the Browning 1922, the safety operates on the sear of both designs, making the sear and the small surface of the hammer (or firing pin, in the case of the Browning 1922) it engages the sole thing that is keeping the firing pin from hitting the primer. The safety only serves to interact with the sear to prevent its movement. When a gun is dropped, the forces of inertia acting on it and its parts are great, and the sear engagement can be overpowered by these forces.

The 1911 LOOKS similar from the outside, but it IS NOT. The 1911's safety swings a solid piece of steel into the travel of the hammer, so that when the hammer is cocked and the safety is engaged, it is THE HAMMER that is blocked by large surfaces, not the sear.

Now, most pistols have a positive firing pin block, where a piece of steel engages a notch in the firing pin. This prevents the firing pin from hitting the primer even if the hammer falls on it or if the mechanism releases the sear. This firing pin block is usually actuated by pulling the trigger. Such firing pin blocks have been around for a long time. I'm not sure who was first to include it, but I know that my CZ52 and CZ70 pistols, designed in the early 50s, both have positive firing pin blocks.

The firing pin block is the only way one can be absolutely sure that the pistol is drop safe, aside from carrying it with an empty chamber, which we've discussed above.

An additional comment about revolvers: Do revolvers have the same problem? Yes, the early single actions like the famous Colt Single Action Army of "Old West" fame (not the one carried by Rajinikanth in Thai Meethu Sathiyam) were properly carrried with the hammer resting on an empty chamber. Double action revolvers began to use various designs that would "rebound" the hammer back from resting on a live cartridge. These designs were not, however, drop-proof. The first double action revolvers I know of that were positively safe were the Iver Johnson safety actions of around 1899. They used the now common transfer bar mechanism, where a bar was raised by pulling the trigger, allowing the hammer to strike it, which in turn, struck a firing pin. Colt introduced a modification of their actions in 1905 that blocked the hammer from striking the primer unless the trigger was pulled, lowering a blocking piece of steel that allowed the hammer to strike home. Smith & Wesson did not incorporate such a block in their revolvers until sometime during or after World War 2. I understand that there was one incident where a sailor during the War dropped his Smith & Wesson, which discharged, causing a fatality.

The bottom line here is that both pistols and revolvers must be carried safely, but some gun designs are not able to offer this without impairing the ability of the gun to always be ready to use, and still be carried safely.

[casual shooter]

I have an ATAl EDC, which is a striker-fired pistol. How safe is it to carry it chambered? I have been taught to never rely on the safety catch, although there are no pointed objects, etc., which can release the trigger, but still, should I or shouldn't I? That is the question; otherwise the pistol is wonderful and works like a well-oiled sewing machine.

[timmy]

I can't tell you whether the ATAI EDC is safe or not. The manufacturer says it is, but there's no information provided that I could find from a search. Even a parts diagram, which some manufacturers do provide, can give an idea of how the gun's mechanism works, but I could find nothing at all about the ATAI's parts inside. They simply make statements on their websites and that's it -- you have to trust them. This version 2 says that they added a 3rd safety, which is a button above the trigger. This looks to me like a trigger block and, if so, is more or less useless.

I can't understand why these makers don't give a buyer more information. YUou could take the pistol apart and see for yourself if you know what to look for.

Here's an interesting web page that describes the different kinds of safeties that you might find interesting:

https://www.usacarry.com/handgun-safeti ... teristics/

The fault that I find on this page is his description of "thumb safeties." There are many different kinds, and certainly the safety of a 1911 is totally different from the one on a Colt 1903 or 1908 by a mile. He doesn't explain this.

One good thing is his descrioption of the firing pin block. You can see it in his picture of the underside of the slide, a small round pin that is pushed up by trigger operation to allow the firing pin to pass.

But the long and short of the answer to your question is that I was unable to find out any information about your pistol that would provide an answer -- sorry.