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Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

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panzernain
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:08 pm

Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby panzernain » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:29 am

During my search on classic pistols I found out that the classic (pre 1920) pistols have a near vertical,almost 90 degree angle to the grips. As compared to that the later models such as Luger and even late colt 1911s have a more angled hand grip. My question to the group members is why such difference has come into being. An example given below.
3089204_02_steyr_hahn_m1912_bavarian_cont_640.jpg
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mundaire
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Re: Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby mundaire » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:57 am

One word answer - Ergonomics.


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panzernain
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby panzernain » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:46 pm

Hmm but if ergonomics is the reason, was there a major change in the shooting stance since WW1?



Anand
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Re: Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby Anand » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:09 am

The grip angle on the earlier pistols was dictated more by reliability than ergonomics. These had box magazines incorporated either in the grip or in front of the trigger guard, some of the magazines were not removable and were fed with charger clips ala Lee Enfield .303 stripper clips. This made it more difficult to have much of an angle to the grip and were near vertical like the 1893 Borschardt Pistol.

Later as the box magazines developed to accomodate even semi rimmed cartridges like the .32 ACP and even .38 Spl. the angle of feeding had to be increased to make sure there was no jamming due to rim lock. The added benefit was a superior and more ergonomic grip angle. If you notice most combat pistols that were designed after the .30 Luger and the 1911 with the exception of some target pistols,have in fact reduced their grip angles some what.



panzernain
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Re: Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby panzernain » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:55 pm

I think that might be the reason, along with a change in the shooting stance. Thanks for the detailed replies .This finally settles the discussion.



TwoRivers
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Re: Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby TwoRivers » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:08 pm

panzermain: The Luger predates the Steyr by quite a few years. The Steyr has an integral magazine, and is loaded with stripper clips. After Austria was joined to Germany under Hitler the Austrian troops were re-armed with German weapons and incorporated into the German army. The mountain troops all had pistols as well as carbines, but the Steyr pistol fired a different cartridge. However, there were not enough Luger or Walther P38 pistols available. After troop tests the mountain troops were allowed to keep their Steyr pistols, but with a new 9mm Parabellum barrels. The justification being, that while the grip angle of the Luger was better suited for shooting up hill, the Steyr was better for firing down hill. Since during an assault up hill one needed both hands to climb and would not be shooting, the Steyr was the better choice for shooting against attackers climbing from below.
So, if the robber is already upstairs, and you are downstairs, pick the Luger. If you are upstairs, and the robber is coming up, the Steyr. Cheers.



panzernain
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Re: Grip angle variation in classic vs modern pistols.

Postby panzernain » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:05 pm

Wow tworivers..great trivia indeed. Didn't think on that line.




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