thought for the day

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Re: thought for the day

Post by Hammerhead » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:59 am

goodboy_mentor wrote:Today we live in a country in which, when the thugs and apparatchiks of the New Order talk of “illegal slaughter” they mean the imaginary cow that was killed — not the real man that was murdered. When they talk of taking “evidence for forensic examination” from the scene of the crime, they mean the food in the fridge, not the body of the lynched man. ..............It doesn’t matter whether we agree or disagree with what is being said. If we do not have the right to speak freely we will turn into a society that suffers from intellectual malnutrition, a nation of fools. Across the subcontinent it has become a race to the bottom — one that the New India has enthusiastically joined. Here too now, censorship has been outsourced to the mob. - Arundhati Roy. Source http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e43360.htm
Along the lines .............

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:21 pm

"I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves." - Harriet Tubman
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by brihacharan » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:34 am

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:39 pm

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.” - Edward R. Murrow
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:50 pm

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by tamancha » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:50 pm

Peace without a weaponary power is never thought since stone age days when people dwell in rock caves.it is obvious that man used rock tools and implements to stop the rivals and to gather food.The concept of "shastra for shanti" was coined in our Vedas and upnishads from early times.Here on this specific topic members have quoted different quotations of foreign origin but thousands of verses of rgvedas and slokad of gita projects the importance and necessity of weapons and warfares.J.Robert Oppenheimer the father of atom bomb director of Manhattan Project followed the basic essenc of atom power in Gita while going through the philosophy of 'kan' the atom.He quoted Krishna.. " Now I am become Death the destroyer of World" eventually claimed Krishna the most and utmost weapon of the world.Some people suggest that Oppenheimer was referring to "Brahmastra" weapon mentioned in Mahabharata. So the need,the use, and the result of the practice of arm and ammunition never be ruled out from prehistory to future.
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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:15 pm

If you are not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. - Malcolm X

Added in 9 minutes 25 seconds:
tamancha wrote:The concept of "shastra for shanti" was coined in our Vedas and upnishads from early times.Here on this specific topic members have quoted different quotations of foreign origin but thousands of verses of rgvedas and slokad of gita projects the importance and necessity of weapons and warfares.
Why don't you please quote all those verses here, along with proper para, page number etc.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:33 pm

The best slave is one who thinks he is free - More details can be read here The Psychological State of The State: the Societal ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ It is very much applicable to the state of affairs in and around the Indian sub continent.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by tamancha » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:29 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:If you are not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. - Malcolm X

Added in 9 minutes 25 seconds:
tamancha wrote:The concept of "shastra for shanti" was coined in our Vedas and upnishads from early times.Here on this specific topic members have quoted different quotations of foreign origin but thousands of verses of rgvedas and slokad of gita projects the importance and necessity of weapons and warfares.
Why don't you please quote all those verses here, along with proper para, page number etc.
Hi good boy!
As you said to mention the verses.paras,page numbers etc...is not an easy task to do so because as you know that the Vedas are four,their aranyakas are the same and well as the numbers of Upanishads are several in numbers. What I have posted previously was based upon the churned material of the great books. And the ' anuahrutees' which I have gone through was in pure sanskrit, so it is better to go for a search of translation of Max Muller in English from German.I shall try shortly to post about your queries in detail when I will get time.Thanks good boy.

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:59 am

tamancha wrote:Hi good boy!
As you said to mention the verses.paras,page numbers etc...is not an easy task to do so because as you know that the Vedas are four,their aranyakas are the same and well as the numbers of Upanishads are several in numbers. What I have posted previously was based upon the churned material of the great books. And the ' anuahrutees' which I have gone through was in pure sanskrit, so it is better to go for a search of translation of Max Muller in English from German.I shall try shortly to post about your queries in detail when I will get time.Thanks good boy.
Hi tamancha, thanks for your guidance about English translation by Max Muller. I will try to search them and read the relevant quotes. Will also wait for your detailed posts related to this matter.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by kshitij » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:24 am

If you guys do find the same, please share the links here. Cheers.
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Re: thought for the day

Post by tamancha » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:04 pm

goodboy_mentor wrote:
tamancha wrote:Hi good boy!
As you said to mention the verses.paras,page numbers etc...is not an easy task to do so because as you know that the Vedas are four,their aranyakas are the same and well as the numbers of Upanishads are several in numbers. What I have posted previously was based upon the churned material of the great books. And the ' anuahrutees' which I have gone through was in pure sanskrit, so it is better to go for a search of translation of Max Muller in English from German.I shall try shortly to post about your queries in detail when I will get time.Thanks good boy.
Hi tamancha, thanks for your guidance about English translation by Max Muller. I will try to search them and read the relevant quotes. Will also wait for your detailed posts related to this matter.
There are hundreds of hymns in rgveda which states about war its arms and ammunitions etc, but as my perception says every religion in the world had come out from the warfare and bloodsheds. Before Islam in Arabia there was the religion of Idolators which was influenced by the contemporary religions of the then practiced worshipping.In Kaba there were more than 300 idols.The main were Hubul,Lat,Manat and Ujjah.Mostly all the gods had bows and arrows in theirs hands,goddess ujjah had two swords in her hands.It was believed that to trample the sin and ill act ARMS were very essential. When Muhammad came in light and he got the order from God to crush the idolatos he attacked more than 100 in number and 22 attacks were taken place by him upon his own clan men of Queresh.Lord Krishna too once gone in grim taken up his own Sudershan Chakra in his hand and was about to through upon Karna but checked himself to cut off his head because he was bound to not participate in direct war.
In Rgvedas hymn 75.....the following account says...
1. THE warrior's look is like a thunderous rain-cloud's, when, armed with mail, he seeks the lap of battle.
Be thou victorious with unwounded body: so let the thickness of thy mail protect thee.
2 With Bow let us win kine, with Bow the battle, with Bow be victors in our hot encounters.
The Bow brings grief and sorrow to the foeman: armed with the Bow may we subdue all regions.
3 Close to his car, as fain to speak, She presses, holding her well-loved Friend in her embraces.
Strained on the Bow, She whispers like a woman-this Bowstring that preserves us in the combat.
4 These, meeting like a woman and her lover, bear, mother-like, their child upon their bosom.
May the two Bow-ends, starting swift asunder, scatter, in unison, the foes who hate us.
5 With many a son, father of many daughters, He clangs and clashes as he goes to battle.
Slung on the back, pouring his brood, the Quiver vanquishes all opposing bands and armies.
6 Upstanding in the Car the skilful Charioteer guides his strong Horses on whithersoe’er he will.
See and admire the strength of those controlling Reins which from behind declare the will of him who drives.
7 Horses whose hoofs rain dust are neighing loudly, yoked to the Chariots, showing forth their vigour,
With their forefeet descending on the foemen, they, never flinching, trample and destroy them.
8 Car-bearer is the name of his oblation, whercon are laid his Weapons and his Armour.
So let us here, each day that passes, honour the helpful Car with hearts exceeding joyful.
9 In sweet association lived the fathers who gave us life, profound and strong in trouble,
Unwearied, armed with shafts and wondrous weapons, free, real heroes, conquerors of armies.
10 The Brahmans, and the Fathers meet for Soma-draughts, and, graciously inclined, unequalled Heaven and Earth.
Guard us trom evil, Pūṣan, guard us strengtheners of Law: let not the evil-wisher master us.
11 Her tooth a deer, dressed in an eagle's feathers, bound with cow-hide, launched forth, She flieth onward.
There where the heroes speed hither and thither, there may the Arrows shelter and protect us.
12 Avoid us thou whose flight is straight, and let our bodies be as stone.
May Soma kindly speak to us, and Aditi protect us well.
13 He lays his blows upon their backs, he deals his blows upon their thighs.
Thou, Whip, who urgest horses, drive sagacious horses in the fray.
14 It compasses the arm with serpent windings, fending away the friction of the bowstring:
So may the Brace, well-skilled in all its duties, guard manfully the man from every quarter.
15 Now to the Shaft with venom smeared, tipped with deer-horn, with iron mouth,
Celestial, of Parjanya's seed, be this great adoration paid.
16 Loosed from the Bowstring fly away, thou Arrow, sharpened by our prayer.
Go to the foemen, strike them home, and let not one be left alive.
Thanks and regards

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:29 pm

The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free to do than in what we are free not to do - Eric Hoffer
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:29 pm

Does the Government not want the common masses to have the right of private defense in face of unlawful police firings? Is it the REAL reason why the Government wants firearms laws to be tougher and more tougher. Is that how the guilty Police officers can be practically protected to successfully behave like Gen. Dyer of Jallianwala Bagh massacre?
[.....]
3. From the testimony of witnesses it further appears that on 14/10/2015 police posted at the spot under the charge of Sh. Charanjit Singh, S.S.P. Moga resorted to Lathi Charge as also firing on the crowd which was sitting peacefully on the spot. Testimony of the witnesses’ reveal that the police action was unprovoked, sudden and without any warning as the law demands. As per law, the police action as to be as per a specifically defined law, that is the crowd has to be informed well in time declaring it to be an unlawful assembly and warning them to leave the spot peacefully failing which lathi charge, could be ordered followed by use of water cannons and tear gas etc. The act of police firing, as a last resort, also necessitates a prior warning with ample time space to enable ‘dispersal’. All these mandatory notices/ warnings are to come from an accompanying magistrate. Testimonies of witnesses and their deposition shows that no such warning was issued at all which make the police action out right ‘unlawful and illegal’.

4. Witnesses deposing before this Commission clearly stated that no such warning or announcement was made by the police/magistrate, and we see no reason to disbelieve them. No State or police authority has cared to appear before us to contradict this version of eye witnesses.

5. It was also brought to the notice of the Commission that some news papers datelined 15.10.10215 i.e. a day after the incident had also highlighted that no such mandatory announcement or warning was made by the police/magistrate before resorting to the Lathi Charge and firing.

Apparently there was no contradiction to these media report either by the state or the police authorities. The commission is well aware of the unfortunate, illegal and unethical practice that in most of such cases, a statement is subsequently got signed by the police authorities from an individual having magisterial powers, stating that the statutory warning and due notice was given to the public. Statements and deposition of the witnesses give no ground to this Commission to believe the plausible theory of a police defense which might be tabled subsequently. Testimonies of the witnesses and circumstantial evidence are enough to convince this Commission of the illegal and arbitrary nature of the police action in this instant case. The FIR registered on 21.10.2015 at the behest of the police ‘on the ground of common perception of people’ does not refer to the statutory provisions. Had any mandatory warning been issued by the police, such a fact should have been included in the said FIR.
Copy of the FIR is placed on record.
[......]
6. In some statements and affidavits to this Commission, names of some police officials have been specifically mentioned. These names include those of Sh. Charanjit Singh S.S.P. Moga and one Sh. Kular, SHO. A number of witnesses, during verbal examination, stated that they did not want to take any names on account of their apprehension that they will be further victimized. This commission could see fear anxiety writ large on their faces and such, would like to particularly again refer to the FIR dated 21.10.2015, which has already been referred to in the preceding paragraphs and which states that sh. Charanjit Singh, SSP Moga was leading the police contingent posted at the venue of police firing and lathi charge. Obviously he cannot be absolved of his responsibility. Punjab Government is reported to have suspended this official, which indicates that even the Punjab Government is of the opinion that Sh. Charanjit Singh, was guilty of dereliction duty.

The Commission takes strong adverse cognizance of the statements of several witnesses that the police had resorted to the Lathi Charge and firing in a very haphazard manner as if they were firing in ‘an enemy target group’ on a war like situation. The police is alleged to have fired on unarmed civilians themselves hiding behind the pillars of a small brick construction located at the cross road of the scene of occurrence as also from behind a tractor trolley which was turned ‘turtle’ on the link road in question and used as a ‘vantage point’ for hiding themselves and shooting at the hapless crowd which included women and even minor children.

Police firing is an extreme measure to be resorted to only in very rare and exceptional situation. We have already pointed out in preceding paragraphs that the crowd had left the main road and was not blocking or obstructing it. It had in fact dispersed towards the nearby link road leading to the village Behbal Kalan. Even assuming that the crowd was blocking the link road in question, it could easily have been dispersed by first making some announcement on loud speakers and then by use of water cannon, tear gas and rubber bullets etc. Some witnesses have stated that tear gas was used, but along with and accompanied by police firing with live bullets. This, in our opinion, was totally uncalled for and unjustifiable. We are living in democracy and people have right to protest and assemble peacefully without arms as provided for in Article 19 of the Indian Constitution. The crowd assembled at Behbal Kalan was unarmed and peaceful. They had neither committed any violence nor threatened police. Therefore, it was just no occasion for the police to resort to such an extreme step as firing with live bullets. This commission unequivocally condemns the efforts of the Punjab Government to suppress the facts and trying brush it under the carpet. This commission thus holds Punjab Government to be a willful accomplice in this instant case and holds it guilty.
[.......]
13. Before concluding, we would like to say that in a democratic country like India, the police are the servant of the law and not of politicians. I am told that some police officers of Punjab police had approached Sh. Shashi Kant, General Secretary of this Commission claiming immunity on the ground that they just receive orders with regard to the actions to be carried out, directly from their political masters and that they have no option but to carry them out, willingly or unwillingly. In this context, this Commission is constrained state categorically that if a police officer receives an illegal order from his political masters, it is his duty not to carry them and instead clearly inform his political masters accordingly. This strange plea of “Orders are Orders” was also taken by the Nazi war criminals at the Nuremburg Trials after the end of Second World War, but this plea was out rightly rejected and many of the accused were hanged.

It is about time now, that the police in India learns to start acting responsibly. We are no longer living under a foreign rule, but are an independent democratic and sovereign country in which people themselves, are the real masters and all State authorities including the police are their servants. The police must therefore, change its ways and stop acting as a colonial strong arm of their political masters. They are accountable to the law of the land and to the Indian populace as such. In the Supreme Court decision in Parkash Kadam Versus Ram Parkash Gupta (2011), it was clearly held that a fake encounter by police even on direction of its so-called superiors amounts to murder and those police men who committed the crime may face death penalty. Similar is the position in this instant case. No police officer can take a plea that he had resorted to Lathi charge, firing or any other such drastic action at the instance of any politician or was even otherwise remotely controlled by his superiors. The officer on ground has to take the decision as per law of the land, procedures there for and be responsible for it. Besides statutes, orders of the superior courts are also equally enforceable and any violation thereof may find the guilty officer not only of willful dereliction of duty and disobedience of law but also of a willful and criminal contempt of the orders of the judiciary.

This Commission would, while reprimanding such officials would also like them to ponder over the question as to in how many of such cases where escaped despite being guilty or where they were actually held to be guilty, had any of their superiors or political masters, stood by them and admitted to be their accomplice on the ground that such guilty officers were just carrying out their orders.

14. Lastly, this People’s Commission hopes and wishes that in this instant case, police and administration will desist from using their pressurizing and intimidating tactics to force people of Behbal Kalan and neighbouring areas ‘into submission’. We could see the fear writ large on the faces of those who deposed before this commission and would like to continue monitoring the situation.
Source the (Retd.) Supreme Court Justice Katju Commission Report available at http://lfhri.org/full-report-of-retd-ju ... an-punjab/
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The link updated since it had changed.
Last edited by goodboy_mentor on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: thought for the day

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:14 pm

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” - George Orwell
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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