• Advertisement
Kiehberg.in -  Outdoor gear and sports equipment

How much gun culture is healthy to society

Posts that don't fit into any other category. If it's anything to do with guns, it probably doesn't belong here!
Vassili Zaitsev
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:13 am
Location: Mumbai

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby Vassili Zaitsev » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:45 am

Wohow...I am overwhelmed by all the comments and analysis. One of the main reason I love this forum and our forum members.
Respect.
1. There have been 17 gun related incident happened in US till the date of the Florida shooting.
How+Many+School+Shootings+Have+Taken+Place+So+Far+in+2018?
+https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/16/how-many-school-shootings-in-2018/#.Woy3JIvjkfI

Breaking Out the Numbers

As of Everytown’s 15 February update, the total number of school gunfire incidents in 2018 stood at 17. Using their numbers as a starting point, we’ve broken out all the known incidents between 1 January and 14 February 2018 into more detailed categories.

Firearm attacks during school hours: 7 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 5)

22 January: Italy High School, Italy, Texas – A 16-year-old student opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun in the school cafeteria, wounding another student.

22 January: NET Charter High School, Gentilly, Louisiana – An unknown person fired shots at students from a vehicle in the school parking lot. One person was injured (though not by gunfire).

23 January: Marshall County High School, Benton, Kentucky – A 15-year-old student opened fire with a handgun on school grounds, killing two and injuring 18.

25 January: Murphy High School, Mobile, Alabama – A student fired a handgun into the air during a fight with another student. No injuries were reported.

26 January: Dearborn High School, Dearborn, Michigan – Shots were fired during a fight in the school parking lot. No injuries were reported.

31 January: Lincoln High School, Philadelphia – A fight during a basketball game resulted in the shooting death of a 32-year-old man outside the school.

14 February: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Florida – A 19-year-old former student opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle, killing 17 and injuring 14.

Firearm attacks NOT occurring during school hours: 2 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 2)

20 January: Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, North Carolina – A 21-year-old was shot and killed during a fight at a party on school grounds.

5 February: – Oxon Hill High School, Oxon Hill, Maryland – A student was shot and injured in the school parking lot during an attempted robbery.

Shots fired during school hours, unknown reason: 2 (no injuries)

10 January: California State University, San Bernardino, California – Bullets were fired through a window, with no suspects or motive identified.

8 February: Metropolitan High School, New York, NY – A student fired a gun into the floor of a classroom.

Unintentional gunfire during school hours: 3 (incidents resulting in injuries or deaths: 1)

10 January: Grayson College, Denison, Texas – A student fired a weapon belonging to an adviser, believing it wasn’t loaded. No injuries were reported.

1 February: Salvador B. Castro Middle School, Los Angeles – A semi-automatic handgun brought to school by a 12-year-old student accidentally went off. Four students were injured.

5 February: Harmony Learning Center, Maplewood, Minnesota – A third-grader pressed the trigger of a law enforcement officer’s handgun. The weapon went off but no one was injured.

Suicide attempts during school hours: 1 (resulting in death)

10 January: Coronado Elementary School, Sierra Vista, Arizona – A middle school student shot himself in the bathroom of the school and was pronounced dead at the scene.

Stray bullets hitting school buildings during school hours: 1 (no injuries)

4 January: New Start High School, near Seattle – Bullets fired by an unidentified shooter entered an administrative office. No injuries were reported.

Stray bullets hitting school buildings NOT occurring during school hours: 1 (no injuries)

15 January: Wiley College, Marshall, Texas – Gunshots fired from a vehicle in the parking lot of a college dorm entered through a window, but did not injure residents.

2. I have been doing few basic search in internet and found this guy purchased this gun completely legally and he bought it almost an year ago. He even passed the security check and back ground verification.
Cruz bought the AR-15 himself legally in Coral Springs, Fla., officials said in Feb 2017. So far, it is the only gun authorities have recovered as part of the investigation, said Peter J. Forcelli, special agent in charge of the Miami field division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The court filing Thursday said Cruz bought the gun about a year before the rampage. (Washington post)
“I want more gun control,” Cameron Kasky said. “I am not trying to tear guns away from the hands of Americans. But the shooter was able to legally purchase a gun, and he was a mentally troubled 19-year-old. If he had been through just the least bit of screening, this could not have happened.”

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida, said more needs to be done to protect the community from future attacks.

"We've got to say, 'Enough is enough.' At some point, we, as a society, have got to come together and put a stop to this," Nelson said. "This senator grew up on a ranch. I have hunted all my life. I have had guns all my life. I still hunt with my son, but an AR-15 is not for hunting. It's for killing."

I was reading another point by Ex president Ronald Reagan once said that "an AK-47 is not a sporting weapon nor needed for defence of a home


"Everything that has a beginning, has an end !!!"

For Advertising mail webmaster
User avatar
xl_target
Posts: 3439
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:47 am
Location: USA

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby xl_target » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:34 am

Vassili Zaitsev wrote:One more tragic story from Florida. As per BBC this is 18th massacre in schools in US. How healthy is this culture where guns are easily available..
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBJaa6U?m=en-gb

So the statement that you made in your first post; "As per BBC this is the 18th massacre in schools in the US" is a patent falsehood.

Counting through the post above where you listed the "massacre's", I count two actual school shootings.
What is considered a "School shooting" is when a gunman enters a school (in session) and indiscriminately starts shooting people.
I count exactly four that might qualify, with one not fitting the stereotype. That's a far cry from eighteen.

“I want more gun control,” Cameron Kasky said. “I am not trying to tear guns away from the hands of Americans. But the shooter was able to legally purchase a gun, and he was a mentally troubled 19-year-old. If he had been through just the least bit of screening, this could not have happened.”

What kind of screening would you suggest?

In a free country, you are innocent until proven guilty.
What could have been down to stop an eighteen year old (legally an adult in the USA) from exercizing his right, as a citizen, to purchase a firearm when he has no criminal record?
In the USA, you cannot arrest and incarcerate someone because you "think" he/she might commit a crime.

I was reading another point by Ex president Ronald Reagan once said that "an AK-47 is not a sporting weapon nor needed for defence of a home

Now we come down to the crux of the matter.
The second amendment to the US constitution says:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The militia is composed of the people. Notice that it says nothing about hunting or protecting the home. Notice also that "shall not be infringed" at the end.
Coming so soon after its independence from the Brits, I'd venture that the founding fathers made sure of its inclusion to protect against an unjust government or governments.

In Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016), the Supreme Court of the United States reiterated its earlier rulings that
"the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding" and that its protection is not limited to "only those weapons useful in warfare"


The oath of office that the President of the United States takes says:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


When you join the United States Armed Forces, the oath that you take is as follows:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ...


The oath of office that Federal Civil servants take:
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.


Notice the common refrain... Like it or not, the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land and any law that law that contravenes it is unlawful.

So what many people are talking about is taking away the constitutionally granted rights of free American Citizens.
We are talking about punishing the law abiding citizens of the country because of the actions of criminals.


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

User avatar
shooter
Posts: 1997
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:55 pm
Location: London

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby shooter » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:13 pm

What I don’t understand is that why do people assume that the government can or should be able to control sale of weapons.

Mr zaiyetsev is working on that premise. So the starting point itself is very different

Second is the needs theory.
Why does anyone need. Mr Vassily zayitsev this Ifg forum is not used for eating drinking nor breathing so why are you here?
Confused?
That’s how convoluted your logic sounds when you quote Ronald regan and his said use of AK 47

Even I agree it’s not a hunting rifle. So?

Good that you have enough time to study school massacres.

Let me also quote you another study:

This is the time when full auto machine guns were available to any age without background checks.
Mr sa-Ali you also pay attention-

So one can mail order a machine gun. Back then they were much cheaper. And no zero nil nada background checks.

Here is a breakdown of school shootings when there was really lax gun laws re full auto machine guns

Florida school shootings- 0
Ny school shootings-0
Nj school shootings 0
Tx school shootings 0
Alabama school shootings 0
Kansas school shootings 0
Mississippi school shootings 0
Missouri school shootings 0
Maine school shootings 0
Vermont school shootings 0
Utah school shootings 0
Hawaii school shootings 0
Alaska school shootings 0
Dakotas school shootings 0

I’m in the process of gathering data from other states too.

Anyways now will you say that everyone should have easy access to machine guns?
In Switzerland till recently every house with a male fighting age had to have a full auto machine gun. School shootings? 0

So please spare us your “studies on school shootings”.

As I said before I am scared of you. If anyone has chances of committing murder with guns it’s you.


You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

User avatar
Woods
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:36 pm

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby Woods » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:33 pm

xl_target wrote:
Vassili Zaitsev wrote:The availability of guns and easy access to common men in US are the main issue what the people are saying in that country. Politics allow gun license to capture the vote bank in Amarica. Not sure how much we can allow to have free gun culture and illegal weapons sellers to shed so much of blood of innocent people.

B.S!
If you subscribe to the above opinions, you don't know what you are talking about.
At best you are being deliberately simplistic to make a point or you actually believe what you have written.
If you think that is harsh, let me go over your statements one by one.

As far as your statement that "The availability of guns... ..what people are saying in that country"; it is only the press and their cohorts are who are saying this. Why is there a unanimity of opinion in the press? Because in the USA, a very small number of people own 90% of the press outlets.
Remember that these are the same people who predicted a 98% chance of Hillary winning the election. This is the same press that is hinting to people that the legally elected government in the US was not legally elected. After all, their polls could not have been wrong, could they? The mainstream press in the USA today has lost touch with the vast majority of people in the USA. They mistakenly believe that only the east and west coast matter and the rest of the country is only "fly-over country".

Your second statement "Politics allow gun license to capture the vote bank in Amarica"; I have to admit, I have no clue what you are actually trying to say here.

Your third statement; "Not sure how much we can allow to have free gun culture and illegal weapons sellers to shed so much of blood of innocent people". You seem to be saying that permissive gun laws are what caused this tragedy.
Do you think that stricter gun laws would have prevented this? Do you know that in the USA today, there are laws that make murder illegal? They also make attempted murder illegal. Then, most cities have laws against discharging firearms in city limits. There is also a law that says that you can't have a firearm within 1000 yards of a school. There is also a law in Florida that says that you cannot carry (open or concealed) a long gun unless you are legally hunting or engaged in skeet or target shooting with a club.
Do you seriously think that another law would have stopped him?
Your statement seems to suggest one thing and I think I know what that is but am not sure what exactly you mean by "free gun culture". I also don't know what illegal weapons sellers have to do with "shedding blood....".


Guess,Amarica is paying its ultimate price for being a Gun savy country.
Guns are life less objects so are the bullets it is the hand which will hold it and pulls the trigger are responsible.
Do they have bag and body frisking in their high schools and colleges?.


"Guess,Amarica is paying its ultimate price for being a Gun savy country" You do know that that is how America actually became a country?
America gained it's independence from Britain by resisting, with their guns, what was then the army of the world's strongest nation.

"Guns are life less objects so are the bullets it is the hand which will hold it and pulls the trigger are responsible".
Yes. Not too hard a concept to grasp.

"Do they have bag and body frisking in their high schools and colleges?" Many schools do but apparently this one did not. It look like he just walked in off the street, pulled the fire alarms to get everyone out in the hallways and then started shooting. In a truly free country, allowing free movement of the people, barriers to movement are disliked by the general populace.

While these are horrific tragedies, the mainstream press in the USA seems to have one goal; the eradication of guns, all guns from private use.
They will lie, cheat and steal to achieve that goal. you want to know about the oft repeated 18 school shootings since the beginning of the year?
Try reading this. This is the first one that came up when I did a cursory search. If you look there are many other articles debunking that claim. However, even the BBC is overrun with liars now.

Let me add something else to this discussion. America is a vast country with many different types of people living here. There are good people and bad.

Here are some stats to ponder:
All injury deaths
Number of deaths: 199,752
Deaths per 100,000 population: 62.6

All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 51,966
Deaths per 100,000 population: 16.3

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 33,594
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.5
Info from here
How come the press isn't clamoring for the removal for automobiles from American roads... or swimming pools from American houses.
Why stop there? Ban ladders, 5 gallon pails, kitchen knives, motorcycles, bicycles, chainsaws, hammers... I could keep going on.

BTW those firearm stats include accidental deaths, suicides, police shootings, gang violence deaths, etc.
They are from 2014 CDC stats (published in 2016). It takes a few years for them to be sorted and published.
The leading causes of death in the USA at that time were:
The 15 leading causes of death in 2014 were:
1. Diseases of heart (heart disease)
2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
4. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
5. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
6. Alzheimer’s disease
7. Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
8. Influenza and pneumonia
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney
disease)
10. Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11. Septicemia
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease
(hypertension)
14. Parkinson’s disease
15. Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids

Maybe we should pass laws banning high blood pressure, diabetes, pneumonia, bacteria and viruses.
That will make them go away and solve the problem!

Added in 43 minutes 1 second:
sdb wrote:Assault rifles are too much of a threat than it is about freedom to own, a bolt action on the other hand makes more sense. If someone has the itch to shoot assault rifles do so in firing ranges earmarked for the same (which I really want to be present in india, and easily accessible but strictly monitored).


This is however my opinion.

Can you define an "Assault Rifle"?

To quote Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride who coined the famous phrase, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means",




Great reply man . Somewhere I read that more people die of ice hockey injuries than gun related .

As being talked in US , the problem is not guns but a Godless society . If gun restrictions worked than how come people are dying in India by gunshot wounds .

Added in 3 minutes 30 seconds:
xl_target wrote:
Vassili Zaitsev wrote:
"The availability of guns... ..what people are saying in that country"; it is only the press and their cohorts are who are saying this. Why is there a unanimity of opinion in the press? Because in the USA, a very small number of people own 90% of the press outlets.
Remember that these are the same people who predicted a 98% chance of Hillary winning the election. This is the same press that is hinting to people that the legally elected government in the US was not legally elected. After all, their polls could not have been wrong, could they? The mainstream press in the USA today has lost touch with the vast majority of people in the USA. They mistakenly believe that only the east and west coast matter and the rest of the country is only "fly-over country".

",


HaHa. Epic


Never seen a thin person drinking diet coke .

Vassili Zaitsev
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:13 am
Location: Mumbai

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby Vassili Zaitsev » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:52 pm

https://newsbroadcastnetwork.com/man-cu ... -is-viral/

There is one less. There has to be something.
Someone will start no one how much we brag and show statistics but we all are internet or paper tiger.
No one advocates to take away the guns but everyone wants to enjoy a safe environment with a healthy gun culture.
Will you be in the same position with same opinion if you had lost your kid or any family members in such MASSACRE? Probably no.


"Everything that has a beginning, has an end !!!"

User avatar
Woods
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:36 pm

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby Woods » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:45 pm

Vassili Zaitsev wrote:https://newsbroadcastnetwork.com/man-cuts-his-ar-15-rifle-in-half-after-florida-school-massacre-video-is-viral/

There is one less. There has to be something.
Someone will start no one how much we brag and show statistics but we all are internet or paper tiger.
No one advocates to take away the guns but everyone wants to enjoy a safe environment with a healthy gun culture.
Will you be in the same position with same opinion if you had lost your kid or any family members in such MASSACRE? Probably no.


People don't stop riding cars after losing loved ones in car accidents .
One North-Eastern lady is opposing the very existence of a gun because her father was killed by an illegal gun .
With that being said , a gun in every hand was the pinnacle of a "civilized society " consisted of very intellectual people . Libral lunacy has ruined the very foundations of contemporary society so background checks etc and collateral harassment will be reality .


Never seen a thin person drinking diet coke .

User avatar
shooter
Posts: 1997
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:55 pm
Location: London

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby shooter » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:10 pm

Vassili Zaitsev wrote:https://newsbroadcastnetwork.com/man-cuts-his-ar-15-rifle-in-half-after-florida-school-massacre-video-is-viral/

There is one less. There has to be something.
Someone will start no one how much we brag and show statistics but we all are internet or paper tiger.
No one advocates to take away the guns but everyone wants to enjoy a safe environment with a healthy gun culture.
Will you be in the same position with same opinion if you had lost your kid or any family members in such MASSACRE? Probably no.


Dear vasilli
I was in London when the tube bombings happened. I am pretty sure the parents of victims still ride the tube.
I was also at ground zero NYCon the anniversary of WTC attacks.
Guess how I got there. By plane.

In India many people lose loved ones to terrorists.
Do you say “ban Muslims” based on the actions of 0.0001%?
Same logic.
Re internet tiger yes you’re right. Probably. If that’s how you describe yourself then fine.
I for one put in a bit of money and effort to preserve others right since mine have been lost already.


You want more gun control? Use both hands!

God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.

User avatar
xl_target
Posts: 3439
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:47 am
Location: USA

Re: How much gun culture is healthy to society

Postby xl_target » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:12 am

Image


“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941


Return to “General ramblings”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests