Help needed about prone position shootin(50mtr)!!!!

[eternalme]

Commendable writeup by Tenx , cheers

[raj]

Thank you Mr eternalme .
i have filed down the fore-sight of air rifle also to make it a bit narrow.i will still try to do what you said.
& thank you Mr.Tenx ,waiting for the next lessons.take your time ,untill then i will practice with wht you and Mr.eternalme said.

I have a quick question for Amit - Do you have your airguns also tweaked with the filing you mentioned earlier ?

who is Amit??

[lazybones]

Superb writeup TenX. Im going to try the "fix the elbow and let the belly dance" method at the range tomorrow

raj: I take it that you're rear sights are set to absolutely flat and that you're shooting at 6 o'clock ?

Ashok

[eternalme]

Raj,
I missed your name previously , corrected that now.

Your filing has paid your dearly already , compensate for the filing while you sight in at foresights at the rear ones and you will get it, its very obvious now.
IF you wanna bet then find a new airrifle of a friend and you will see that you are shooting right at the mark.

Hope you get a shocker soon
Till then

[TenX]

...Im going to try the "fix the elbow and let the belly dance" method at the range tomorrow ...

... All the best... I will most probably join in from the next weekend on
But mind you.. since you are not yet on sling and jacket, the lateral breathing movement may not be noticed so much, especially since you will have to grip the rifle to make up for no-equipment. This may have certain muscle groups in a more 'tensed' state, and would require some other strategies

[raj]

May be this will make conditions more clear.
above picture shows the rifle sights both before and after filing.
A.rear sight & fore sight without filing.
B.fore-sight after filing.
C.view of sights while aiming after filing done.(this is the current position on which i shoot)
D.view of sights wihtout filing.the fore sight used to cover whole of the target, i used to get very wild and bad groups.

Regards
raj

[eternalme]

Hmm

Interesting, if you are shooting with 'C' hold and the foresight hasn't been shortened in the height then the projectile should go down actually, provided the sights were tuned for ,say, some 20 meters or so.

May be you do the following -

1: Test fire with someone else's gun to see if you shoot max 12'o or not.
2: Notice your eye positioning , are you positioning your eye lower than the shoulder of the rear sight ?
3: ask someone to take a picture of you while you are taking ,say, a five meter shot.The picture should cover the eye, the front sight ,rear sight and the target
Print and draw some lines to get a Idea.
4: alternate is to see where you barrel is looking and where you are looking, anyone with little benchrest experience will be able to tell you how to do it, this is a sure way of adjusting your gun to shoot right at the bull, but works only for short ranges .

[raj]

Hmm

Interesting, if you are shooting with 'C' hold and the foresight hasn't been shortened in the height then the projectile should go down actually, provided the sights were tuned for ,say, some 20 meters or so.

May be you do the following -

1: Test fire with someone else's gun to see if you shoot max 12'o or not.
2: Notice your eye positioning , are you positioning your eye lower than the shoulder of the rear sight ?
3: ask someone to take a picture of you while you are taking ,say, a five meter shot.The picture should cover the eye, the front sight ,rear sight and the target
Print and draw some lines to get a Idea.
4: alternate is to see where you barrel is looking and where you are looking, anyone with little benchrest experience will be able to tell you how to do it, this is a sure way of adjusting your gun to shoot right at the bull, but works only for short ranges .

Sir,thank you for your help.
1.i tried with club's BRNO and got a group at bull,a little more spread than what i get with my rifles but no 12 'o clock verticle shifts.
2.no,i dont place my eye below the rear sight shoulder as my rifle has a cheek pad.my eyes are above or atleast at level.
3.coudn't take the picture but i will do it soon.
4.no benchrest experts around here.

Regards
raj

[eternalme]

Hi Raj,

<1.i tried with club's BRNO and got a group at bull,a little more spread than what i get with my rifles but no 12 'o clock verticle shifts. >
As per 1 you will understand that its not about your hold which is causing 12'o clock vertical shift problem otherwise this should happen with the club rifle as well, that is what I was suspecting all this long.
As per the group being wide thats ok because you don't have a fine foresight to align with the center of the bull, which you can attain with your pointed sight.
So we are finally zeroed onto your rifle being the reason of the problem.
For now you can keep your eye at level of the shoulder of the rear sight.

Now we address the problem of vertical shift in relation to your rifle , for that we will have to align your sights with the LOS of your barrel.So that you can shoot bull with your rifle.
You will have to arrange for a bench with couple of paddings and weights, place your rifle in the holding thus formed, get the bolt out, see through the barrel and point it on the bull.
Now keeping it like that, reach for your shooting position place your cheek next to the butt and attain eye position as you would do while shooting, see at what position you can align the sight cross at the bull center, that will be your sight image and bull combination for shooting the bull with your rifle.

Regards

[eternalme]

Raj, this method will sight-in your rifle for a given range, this is never accurate for distance above 50~60 meter due to drop factor for .22LR.

Alternate method can be found in the link below (its a shot waster method actually ) which talks about sighting in your rifle based on the actual point of impact.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sight-in_rifle.htm

[raj]

Sir, i will try the bench rest thing as soon as i get to arrange all the stuff needed.i asked a pro-shooter at the range to test my rifle.he first shot at 25mtrs and then at 50mtrs and concluded that rifle is perfectly zeroed.but he said the trigger is hard and may be the reason for all my problems as the Brno in the club have almost feather-touch triggers as they are worn out.
Do you think a hard trigger can cause this problem??

I will try the bench-rest today at my farm & tell you the results.
I m also working on the points told by Mr.TenX.

Thank you all...

Regards
raj

[eternalme]

Hard trigger has made my shots go down and not up
And also note that you shoot the same 12'o vertical with your airguns also, what about their triggers I don't think airguns have a rock hard pull .

Anyways all the best for benchrest stuff. Please post the results they will help all of us.

Regards

[raj]

A whole day of dissapointment struck me.the bench rest thing didn't work out.i got frustated and blew up some rounds but it was of no use.
i guess i have to wait for next sunday to go to the range as i m out of ammo now.
i will wait for Mr Tenx for the next tips.


Regards
raj

[TenX]

1. Breathing Technique & Rythm

Getting in line: When in position, assuming all other variables to be consistent, when you breathe in and breathe out, the target aim should shift down and up respectively (6 'O Clock when you breathe out, and 12 'O Clock when you breathe in). When you breathe in, the aim should go vertically down, and when you breathe out, it should shift vertically up. Breathe slowly and check this out. If this does not happen, you will have to ensure that the butt is sitting firmly on your shoulder, that you have a proper grip on the rifle (not too tight, not too loose), use of sling is not too tight, and weight of most of the body should be on the left elbow (for a right handed shooter - one who pulls the trigger with his right hand). Correct all these variables and you will have a proper breathing-rifle motion. This is essential for good shooting.

Getting the Rhythm: Now that you have the technique right, you will have to develop a rhythm. For this, get into the natural position without concentrating on the target, but position yourself in the general line of the target. Close your eyes and breathe in a few times, ensuring that none of your muscle groups are held very tight. Now open your eyes and see where you are aiming. If you are aiming left, move your waist to the right and vice-versa. If you are aiming up, move your waist forward and vice-versa. These movements should be done without changing your elbow or any other body position (NOTE: The elbow position should be a constant throughout the match, if at all it moves, it could get a little dirty on the sheet). Everytime you make a waist adjustment, close your eyes, breathe in and out a few times and double check if you have the right line of aim.

Once this is done, you will have to develop a proper timing and constant procedure of breathing. Here is a good one that works for most people - Breathe in and out once in your general breathing pace, do it again at a slower pace, do it the third time, at an even slower pace, then aim. The third or probably fourth time, you will notice that you are inhaling and exhaling lesser, this is good. It means that your body is not "excited" and your breathing is in control. What you should not be doing is to breathe as slowly as possible, to hold your breath when you think you have the right aim, and the released shot will puncture the absolute middle of the target.

IMPORTANT: You should always hold your breath in the same direction i.e., if you feel that you have better control when you are breathing out (which is usually most suited), then you should breathe in (the fourth time) and slowly breathe out until you get the proper aim. For some people, breathing in gives better control, but whichever way you adapt, you ave to use the same rhythm everytime... EVERYTIME! Every shot should have the same breathing technique and rhythm. This will also give you proper timing for every shot, which adds to the overall rhythm, which is crucial in a match.

Mostly this should suffice for a good grouping.


2. Aiming - target sighting

What is aiming: Aiming constitutes to a much larger part than what the word seems to convey. Relatively, to shooting, especially the rifle events, what a shooter needs to do, is consistently get the same tight grouping on the target. By adjusting personal and other rifle/ equipment variables, one can get this group to the centre, and thus achieve a high score. To do this, one usually follows two types of aiming - the Open and the Peep sight. Most shooters know what the difference between the two is, but for those who have any doubts, the next sections will explain. Apart from understanding what these types of sights are, one has to know well, where the line of focus has to travel, where the focus has to rest (while taking the shot), what the Picture should be, how your Eyes should be, and how to ensure all this is constant.

Peep Sight: Like in most rifles, one has a fore sight (at the tip of the barrel) and a rear sight (usually just after/ before the bolt action area). The rear sight and fore sight add up to be the markers of the rifle barrel and both these will essentially be a pair of rings, through which one sights the target. Therefore, the shooter will have to get the two rings (or the rear/ fore sights) in a concentric manner and in line with the target. So the shooter, will be able to see the rear sight ring, within which, the fore sight ring is seen, exactly in the centre, and within that, the target is seen, again in the centre. Any, even slight, variation in this concentric line will change the placing of the shot.

Open Sight: Of the more common sighting methods, the open sight comprises of a rear sight, the one that sits with the 'V' closer to the shooters eye, and a fore sight - the one that sits with the '|' on the tip of the barrel. No adjustments can be made, generally for the fore sight, unless there is a huge variation and the fore sight needs to be filed. Essentially, the shooter has to get the rear sight and the fore sight, in alignment to the target. What is most frequently and successfully used is to have the tip of the fore sight in line with the top of the rear sight notch. This will result in something like \|/ , where \/ is the rear sight notch, and | is the fore sight tip. One must be sure that an imaginary line drawn from the top ends of the notches touches the tip of the fore sight. Something like the following illustration:

Untitled-1.jpg

Where does the target come in? .... Well, now that the sighting concept is clear, lets get on to placing (aiming) the open sights on to the target. For different targets, different shooters have a different place on the target to aim. Some shooters aim at the centre of a target, while most aim at the bottom edge of the target. But what suits one's vision is something that the shooter will have to find out through the means of checking & experimenting. Here are a few tried and tested methods with what needs to be kept in mind (see illustration below):

Untitled-2.jpg

You will see there are 4 types of aiming detailed above.

(1) This is usually not advised for target shooting, as you will see that the fore sight kind of gets lost when its against the background of the black bull. Since you can only make out the bull as a black dot, if a shooter tries to get the sight alignment inside the bull, all will be lost.

(2) Here, we discuss the sights just below the bull, at it's exact base. This is usually pretty inconsistent and the shooter may never actually aim at the base of the target. As shown in the diagram, what happens in most cases is that, owning to the focussing of the eyes and how the contrasting is understood by the mind, the bottom portion of the bull sometimes vanishes. This is not only inconsistent, but will render the shooter incapable of giving the right judgement. What the shooter thinks is the exact base at 6 O' Clock, may not exactly be so. Any small variation at this will give the shooter shots varying in the vertical line. Therefore, this kind of aiming can be avoided.

(3) Here, we see an aimin which is pretty much down the bull. This is also not advised as small variations in the gaps will go unnoticed. This level of accuracy is seldom got.

(4) This is so far the best method, wherein the shooter keeps something like the absolute minimum distance between the tip of the fore sight and the base of the bull. The best way to judge this would be to slowly move the aim in the vertical line of the bull, and notice the change in how the perception of the bull varies. The shooter should get to aiming at just below the base of the black dot, in such a way that any more up and the target diminishes, and any more down shows a larger gap than usual. How much ever I try to explain this here in words, one will get the idea only after trying it out a few times. In certain cases, as I have discussed with several other shooters, the right distance just below the bull, will also reveal an interesting whiter halo around the base. Somehow, this makes the fore sight tip show up more prominent. I guess this is because the fore sight is completely out of the black background (target), but just below, so that the contrast makes the gap kind of shine more. Sometimes, I think this could also happen because of light's properties - bending around the corner. Whatever it may be, if a shooter observes closely, and tries this out well, it will greatly improve his/ her grouping. The correct distance between the base of the bull and the sights will surely stop any spread in the vertical line of firing.

NOTE: Ensure that the rear sight groove and the fore sight strip are black and dull. If not, any shining part may reflect light and mar your aiming.

Lets now discuss the other important aspects.

The Eyes
You must be aware that the eyes, functioning together, render a 3-D effect to human vision. If one sees only with one eye, the depth of vision is lost. In shooting, loss of this depth can be used as an advantage. Without depth, the aiming of the rear sight, fore sight and the target can actually be independently focussed a little faster. Having known this, the next fact about our eyes is that both the eyes, together and in tandem, pass on information of what it sees to the brain. The brain converts this signal into making us know what we are seeing. Now, if a shooter blinds the non-shooting eye, there will be less or no light entering the non-shooting eye, and normal light entering the shooting eye, which is open and not closed. Because of this indifference, the brain may receive imbalanced signals, which may actually make our own sighting a problem - it can become difficult with time, or may not be exact.

To avoid this imbalanced behavior, the shooter must mostly use a translucent blind. This will allow as much light to pass through the non-shooting eye as possible, and yet help in concentrating with only the shooting eye. The ideal blind would be one that is exactly in line with the non-shooting eye and only the target. If you use your right eye to shoot, put on a blinder made of white thick translucent plastic, and place it about an inch away from your eye, such that a lot of light can pass. Also, ensure you have a blinder which is small enough to block only the target. This will not oly let in equal light to both eyes, but your vision in all other angles other than sighting the target will also be fine. That way, you can even use the non-shooting eye to view through the scope, etc.

The eyes, develop fatigue over a period of time, especially when the blood is not in it's completely charged state of nutrition. Sometimes, focussing only on the target and sights will strain the eye, sans the complete movement of the eyeball. This may not only reduce blood supply to the eye, weakening the eye muscles, but will also lead to another 'brainy' phenomenon. The brain, which is omni-intelligent, is sometimes smarter than you think (What an infinite loop of a thought this must be!). It runs your heart all your life, without your consent, alongwith several other non-voluntary activities. A similar non-voluntary thing happens in shooting. When you keep seeing an image very often, and when the eyes get a little undernourished to take the strain, the brain may receive weaker signals, but it is smart in using its memory to make up for what you don't see. Sometimes, you may even think you are seeing a proper (if not clear) target picture, when you are actually not. To avoid these problems, I would advise a shooter to blink a lot. One should also take the focus away from the target picture, once in a while, and see far off green stuff, like trees, to relax the eyes. It is also a good idea to close your eyes, when you are doing routine things, like during the one second on closing the bolt and taking up your position, just after you reload. This will give your eyes a bit of relaxation, and also let you concentrate on your body position, so that you can feel it better without distractions from an open vision.

Line of Focus
The line of Focus, in here is about how and where the eyes should focus while taking a shot. As you know, the eyes can focus on only one distinct selection - the rear sight, the fore sight or the target. When you focus on any one of them, the other two fall into a 'no-focus' vision.

This is unavoidable. If you don't agree and feel you can focus on more than one of them, then it's time to get your eyes checked

Having said this, have you ever wondered what you should be focussing on, while taking a shot? If you focus on the sights and the target becomes a blur, you may feel you are unsure about your aim. If it is the other way round, any changes in the sights itself may go unnoticed. What I would advise is this - when you are moving the sights up and down the target with controlled breathing, try to focus only on the target. You should begin with focussing on the rear sight, move focus to the fore sight, aligning it, and then rest the focus on the target. Mind you, this is done while you are still in the initial breathing rhythm. Now, as you get the exact 'below-base' of the target, as explained above, you will start to hold your breath and ensure that you are now ready to take the shot. Just after this, I would reccommend that you bring back your focus to the fore sight, then to the rear sight, then back to the fore sight, then further away to the target, and then back to the fore sight. Now is the time to take the shot - while your focus is on the fore sight. Any changes in vision in the sight focus area makes greater changes in the line of the bullet. So, its better to have the focus at the fore sight. Since the rear sight is a little larger, and chances of the rear sight moving away from proper aiming is lesser, focussing on the fore sight is the way to go. Hold this focus while you start to squeeze on the trigger (I have explained trigger operation in another post, and some details below). Ensure your focus remains on the fore sight, even as you follow through. I suggest a shooter write this down, memorise it, keep the checklist next to him and read it before every shot. Once you make this a standard protocol, it will get included into your shooting rhythm, seem less confusing and get you better results.

The Picture
Take the picture!
If you get a perfect shot, a Ten-X, that means you aimed well, and shot well. Now, all you have to do, is repeat the same another 59 times in a row

Getting about doing that, requires control of over 120 variables for the Prone position, several more for other positions. One of the important things is to get the right picture in your sights. This picture, is essentially a well balanced sight aligned to the target. See this picture, know it, and thrive on it. Make this picture a constant cross-checking proceedure in your mind. You should adapt to this picture so well that any change in what you are seeing and what you should be seeing, should be noticed by you. I am talking extreme concentration here. If you were to take a snapshot of the right aim (like in pt. 4 above), every time you get to aim, you should want to see only this picture. That's what it takes to get the right level of consistency for great shooting.

The Constant
From the above topics of sighting, aiming, eye-ing and focus, you should dedicate good concentration to make all this work seamlessly well, and also ensure it is the same for every shot. As complicated as it sounds, that is what we do, and that is the best way to get a good score and grouping.

3. Body Muscle/ Mass
The Human body and it's glorious muscle groups are a great creation of nature. All of them work hand in hand to create the excellence that we all thrive to acheive. Co-ordination in split millisecond accuracy, combined with an infinite gear system to deliver exact proportions of muscle-power and pressure, bring about a fantastic machine that converts chemical circuitry of thoughts into motored reflexes and actions. Yet, most of these muscles are extremely minute and capable of pin point accuracy. There are some muscles in your palm, which are thinner than your hair. The wonderful nerves, and so much of it, that you have, can deliver muscle impulses and messages back and forth to the brain in lightening speeds. The nerves in a human, when spread out, are long enough to go around the world twice. Now this marvel of a network requires greater balance and control to get about doing what it needs to. All these muscles depend a lot on oxygen to keep going, apart from much nutrition that the blood supplies.

These muscles, in the event of shooting, take abnormal strains and imbalanced movements. A shooter's body is certainly in an unnatural position, with varying pressures and strain on different muscle groups. This tends to develop improper blood supply to some muscle groups, which may result in fatigue. Sometimes, some muscle groups become tensed without your knowledge. If you shoot a series of tens, your neck and face muscles may become more alert than required, leading to a change in your stance. This stance is an extreme necessity to be kept a constant all through your match. It is advisable to close your eyes and conciously feel your body before every shot. Always advocate necessary measures to lighten up your tensed muscle groups. You don't know what one wrongly tensed muscle can do to your shot. It may suddenly relax soon after the shot, and spoil your follow through. It may make you grip some part of the rifle tighter than required, adding extra pressure in an unwanted angle; it may wear out and lessen in stamina before the match gets over...

For some people, excess mass in muscle may drain out the oxygen in their blood faster, making them feel the strain and fatigue earlier. Others may have trouble in overall agility and stretching of the body, which may be required to comfortably suit different postures that shooting requires. An air-rifle shooter tends to move his/ her back in an angle away from the body's normal line of centre of gravity, thus compressing one part of the back, while pulling another. Such imbalances require the muscles to be hardy enough to take the posture effortlessly and also have the required stamina to endure the match. One has to dedicate a lot of time into adapting the body to match the required stance. When you go to sleep, sleep like you are in poistion for a Prone match. When you watch TV, take the kneeling position... what you will essentially be doing, is getting your body to adapt to these shooting stances.

Next, it is important to ensure that your frame of mind and your body energy levels are right. Never shoot in a bad frame of mind. If you are too happy or too sad, or even plain angry, your shooting may get inconsistent. Ensure that you practice a constant, balanced and proper frame of mind while shooting. Meditation may help some, music for others. But find out what is required to balance your mind and put it in the right frame for a great score.

Blood nutrition will also matter. If you are tired or excessively charged up, your shooting constant will vary and so will your groups/ score. Sometimes, overeating will result in improper blood supply and tire muscles; other times, even coffee may slightly increase your heartbeat and mar your shots. One should observe what you eat & how much before shooting, etc., to get into the right consistency. I have even heard of shooters blame a lost match on bad traffic while on the way to the range. Know your limits, know yourself, and always ensure you are in your best required form - physically & mentally.

4.Trigger Operation
One of the most essential procedures of shooting in H.A.T. (Holding-Aiming-Trigger Operation), is how one squeezes the trigger and lets the bullet fly out to the bull. In a short and sweet way, you should be holding the grip of the butt of the rifle just sufficiently and only with your thumb and the last three fingers. At any given point of time, your forefinger should be free from any movement of any other finger. This forefinger, which is the one which you place on the trigger, should always rest on the same part of the trigger and always at the same place on your forefinger. Close your eyes, and feel where you place your finger on the trigger. Feel the point of contact and always ensure it is the same for each and every shot. When you take the shot, you should never jerk the trigger even in the minutest way. One must squeeze the trigger, that is, slowly apply and keep on applying pressure on the trigger to take the first pull and consequitively, the second and final pull. The squeeze should be such that the shooter should not be able to determine when the shot was fired. The gradual pressure on the trigger will enforce this, and also provide the exact amount of pressure required to take the shot. And very importantly, the line of trigger pull must be in the exact line of the barrel. Any side pressure to the trigger may make a change in your grouping. When you hold the rifle, practice this with some dry shooting. Close your eyes and place your trigger finger well on the trigger. Open your eyes, and gradually increase pressure on the trigger. Take your time... take at least a few seconds to complete the first stage. All the while, observe any movement on the rifle, caused by your trigger pressure. If your aim shifts even a little, you will have to correct your trigger operation. Once you think you have the right line and pressure, repeat the same, but in a jerking manner. This will let you know possibilities of the occasionaly bad shots, otherwise known as 'fliers'. When you jerk, you will notice the change in aim, and the next time, when in a match, if you get a flier in the same area, you know it may be because of loss of complete control on Trigger Operation; you probably 'jerked' the trigger.

Improper trigger technique will surely change the shots. When not in a proper rhythm, a shooter may well provide inconsistent pressures on the trigger, and may even change the position of the fore finger on the trigger - the trigger contact. Such unnoticed variation will affect your shots and may even get you to think something else is wrong. Like I said earlier... shooting is only about getting a perfect bull once, and repeating it 60 times in a row. You need to get into a quality and excellence that will make you a constant in all aspects of possible variables, throughout the entire match.


5.Follow Through
The next part after the H.A.T. is the Follow Through, which is equally important.

Basically, this means that you continue the shooting consistency beyond the shot. This does not simply apply to not changing your position while the bullet/ pellet is exiting the barrel. This will provide you with that extra bit of patience and remarkable accuracy that is very much required. When your sights are aligned with the target, when you are comfortable holding your breath, when your body is relaxed & ready to take the shot, when your focus is on the fore sight and when you have started to apply pressure on the trigger with your forefinger, you are in a raphsody of sorts. There is a mind that is running, and calculating and expecting the shot to peirce the absolute centre of the black; there are threads of thought that see you on a podium, and some others that bring about various feelings and emotions of fear or happiness, etc. Despite all this, a large part of your concentration rests on two sights and a target several metres away, ensuring that you get a proper line. You have taken at least a few seconds to get the shot in place, but somehow, you cannot wait to immediately see where it went, just after squeezing the trigger.

Don't you see the disconnect?

It is best to keep your focus on the foresight & keep holding your breath all the time during the trigger operation, and continue the same for at least half a second or more after the shot.

When you know that you have taken the second pull of the trigger, and when you see the rifle bounce up or around the point of aim, it will be undergoing a small explosion of the bullet or a release of the spring or compressed air/ gas, to hurl a small piece of metal in the direction of your aim. All through this, retain your stance and frame, and be a willing spectator noticing the reactions that happen to your point of aim. Once the ordeal is over, within a fraction of a second, the rifle will again rest on the target. See where it is now aiming. This is what I call the Follow-Through Point. One must ensure the recoil and the change (if any) of the aim, after the shot is released, is the same for every shot. That is, you should get the same Follow-Through Point for every shot. This is the completion of the Follow-Through. If you make this as part of your rhythm, you will be ensuring that you do the follow through and also do it correctly, every time.

Now, you may see where it hit and get back to doing it all over again!

[eternalme]

Hi Raj,

Sorry to hear about loss of the complete day.

Regards