MSD Champion vs webley fox .32

[Capt_vaibhav]

Hello everyone!

I have an All india validity license, right now i have .32 pistol by GSF purchased in year 2016 .

For past few months with the launch of so many new weapons i am seriously thinking about changing my current pistol And after YouTubeing for some days i was Pretty much inclined towards .45 champion as it is of perfect size and also i want to try .45 caliber for a change.
Now recent announcement from Webley about the launch of .32 fox,again created the confusion about what weapon shall i buy .
I have spoken to few of the dealer across the country regarding the same and have got mixed reviews about webley.
Some claims that webley are being sold in india just because of the sake of it’s name , or they are good in revolvers not pistols etc etc .
Some on the other hand are saying that webley is indeed a fine machine..
Like more or less everyone is saying that the quality of MSD champion is better and it is a very capable weapon.

What are your thoughts about it ???

[Pratipalsinh Jadeja]

I would suggest you wait till December,
Reason being I had vacated my license in february in the opinion that the manufacturers would live upto heir claims at the time of launch, But I think in the next 3 months a very crystal clear picture of all the launched and soon to be launched pistols will be in market like Fox .32, Astr Atal .32, Werywin Victor and other S&W models. ""Also I had a word with Vinvelli who are introducing CZ pistols into Indian market and also their marketing team is swift with the responses.""
In the meantime you can also visit defence expo which is said to be anywhere in October and get first hand handling experience and details of several other arms manufacturers aswell.

But if you have made up you mind to only go for .45 bore MSD Pistols in my opinion are better as you can replace any 1911 parts with its guns which shows confidence in the company and product and the level of consistency the firm abides by, But again Its my opinion...Webley being a ambidextrous pistol is thoughtful but I havn't seen a lot of videos of it.

[Capt_vaibhav]

Thank you for the reply sir !

[Vineet]

Hello everyone!

I have an All india validity license, right now i have .32 pistol by GSF purchased in year 2016 .

For past few months with the launch of so many new weapons i am seriously thinking about changing my current pistol And after YouTubeing for some days i was Pretty much inclined towards .45 champion as it is of perfect size and also i want to try .45 caliber for a change.
Now recent announcement from Webley about the launch of .32 fox,again created the confusion about what weapon shall i buy .
I have spoken to few of the dealer across the country regarding the same and have got mixed reviews about webley.
Some claims that webley are being sold in india just because of the sake of it’s name , or they are good in revolvers not pistols etc etc .
Some on the other hand are saying that webley is indeed a fine machine.

Go for Champion or stay with your current weapon. Champion is very good quality pistol. Only problem is that the ammo is highly priced. If you shoot less then ammo price shouldn’t be a problem.

There is no point of selling .32 pistol and again buying a .32 for Rs. 3,25,000. (That’s what I have heard Webley fox will be priced for).
Indian Webley quality is also not that good.

If you buy fox, the advantage you will get is 5-6 rounds more in the magazine and double action. But are these two things worth spending that much amount ?

[Capt_vaibhav]

Thank you for your reply Vineet ji ! Price of ammo shouldn’t be any problem as I hardly fire my weapon!
I was thinking same as in all the weapons which are launching soon are .32 only . I mean i have used .32 already and know how that caliber behaves. So why not switch if given an option.

[Capt_vaibhav]

And also as pratipalsinh ji quoted “MSD Pistols in my opinion are better as you can replace any 1911 parts with its guns which shows confidence in the company and product and the level of consistency the firm abides by, But again Its my opinion” makes me go towards it more .
Like if we can replace any part with original colt then isn’t super good .
Champion in my opinion looks pretty manly and robust and old school, other to be launched pistols are looking good in deed and looks flashy like straight out of a si fi movie with fiber and steel mix . Only my opinion and could be wrong too .

[MAGNUM]

And also as pratipalsinh ji quoted “MSD Pistols in my opinion are better as you can replace any 1911 parts with its guns which shows confidence in the company and product and the level of consistency the firm abides by, But again Its my opinion” makes me go towards it more .
Like if we can replace any part with original colt then isn’t super good .
Champion in my opinion looks pretty manly and robust and old school, other to be launched pistols are looking good in deed and looks flashy like straight out of a si fi movie with fiber and steel mix . Only my opinion and could be wrong too .

Now you have another fantastic option, MSD has recently launched Falcon (7.62x 25 or .30 Tokarev) which is an exact copy of.30 TT Norinco or Tokarev, the.30 calibre is in many ways even more potent than 9 mm & has less recoil as compared to.45 , expect someone ( have requested Vineet Godara) to start a fresh thread on Falcon with proper review & comparison with the original TT .30

[vasanthm]

does the Falcon provide sufficient options in terms of safety features?

[MAGNUM]

does the Falcon provide sufficient options in terms of safety features?

Not really, the only safety is the half cock position of the hammer but in my experience that's all that one really needs

[timmy]

does the Falcon provide sufficient options in terms of safety features?

Not really, the only safety is the half cock position of the hammer but in my experience that's all that one really needs

As you are here posting, i presume that you haven't dropped a half-cocked TT33 or Star pistol and had it land on its hammer. (Given that the mass of the gun is centered more on the joining of the grip and the barrel, that's where it will tend to land.)

The Soviets thought that the Tokarev pistol only needed a half cock as a safety, as well, when the pistol was designed, but right after WW2, they changed their mind when time permitted a reconsideration.

Give some thought to this after 10:00 minutes:



and this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol

Unless a positive means of preventing the hammer from hitting a primer on a loaded chamber is provided (such as in a 1911 or a MODERN double action revolver, such as a Colt, Smith & Wesson (after WW2) or Ruger double action (to name several, but not all examples of safe double action revolvers), a handgun with only a half cock, like a TT33 or "Star," is NOT safe to carry with a live round in the chamber.

How do I know?

Well, I have one, that's how.

I thought that having a 7.62 x 25 or 9 x 19 in a TT33 (Hungarian and Chinese copies of Tokarev are available in 9 x 19) would be just the thing: It would be almost as powerful as a 45 Auto 1911, and not a whole lot larger than a Colt Pocket Pistol in 32 Auto or 380 Auto. The TT33 is slim and small.

When I got it and shot it, I found that it was quite heavy, as the trouble to machine excess metal out to save weight was not done, the grip was at an awkward angle for shooting, but expecially, that IT WASN'T SAFE TO CARRY WITH A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

This keeps being mentioned on this board time and time again, over the years. The Soviets found the design deficient and essentially copied the Walther PP/PPK for their next service pistol -- they learned the hard way.

My Grandmother always said that "A word to the wise is sufficient."

I certainly hope so.

[timmy]

does the Falcon provide sufficient options in terms of safety features?

Not really, the only safety is the half cock position of the hammer but in my experience that's all that one really needs

As you are here posting, i presume that you haven't dropped a half-cocked TT33 or Star pistol and had it land on its hammer. (Given that the mass of the gun is centered more on the joining of the grip and the slide/frame, that's where it will tend to land.)

The Soviets thought that the Tokarev pistol only needed a half cock as a safety, as well, when the pistol was designed, but right after WW2, they changed their mind when time permitted a reconsideration.

Give some thought to this after 10:00 minutes:



and this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol

Unless a positive means of preventing the hammer from hitting a primer on a loaded chamber is provided (such as in a 1911 or a MODERN double action revolver, such as a Colt, Smith & Wesson (after WW2) or Ruger double action (to name several, but not all examples of safe double action revolvers), a handgun with only a half cock, like a TT33 or "Star," is NOT safe to carry with a live round in the chamber.

How do I know?

Well, I have one, that's how.

I thought that having a 7.62 x 25 or 9 x 19 in a TT33 (Hungarian and Chinese copies of Tokarev are available in 9 x 19) would be just the thing: It would be almost as powerful as a 45 Auto 1911, and not a whole lot larger than a Colt Pocket Pistol in 32 Auto or 380 Auto. The TT33 is slim and small.

When I got it and shot it, I found that it was quite heavy, as the trouble to machine excess metal out to save weight was not done, the grip was at an awkward angle for shooting, but especially, that IT WASN'T SAFE TO CARRY WITH A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

This keeps being mentioned on this board time and time again, over the years. The Soviets found the design deficient and essentially copied the Walther PP/PPK for their next service pistol -- they learned the hard way.

Consider that you are carrying concealed and in a scuffle, or changing a flat tire, the pistol falls out of its holster -- is this a chance to be risked? Not for me, brother, and if you do, I hope I'm not in range of wherever you are!

My Grandmother always said that "A word to the wise is sufficient."

I certainly hope so.

[MAGNUM]

does the Falcon provide sufficient options in terms of safety features?

Not really, the only safety is the half cock position of the hammer but in my experience that's all that one really needs

In India one rarely carries a pistol with one round in the chamber , i made my observation in that sense & by & large people use a safety lock even if the chamber is empty, in that situation even a half cock is good enough but in a larger sense you are correct


As you are here posting, i presume that you haven't dropped a half-cocked TT33 or Star pistol and had it land on its hammer. (Given that the mass of the gun is centered more on the joining of the grip and the slide/frame, that's where it will tend to land.)

The Soviets thought that the Tokarev pistol only needed a half cock as a safety, as well, when the pistol was designed, but right after WW2, they changed their mind when time permitted a reconsideration.

Give some thought to this after 10:00 minutes:



and this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol

Unless a positive means of preventing the hammer from hitting a primer on a loaded chamber is provided (such as in a 1911 or a MODERN double action revolver, such as a Colt, Smith & Wesson (after WW2) or Ruger double action (to name several, but not all examples of safe double action revolvers), a handgun with only a half cock, like a TT33 or "Star," is NOT safe to carry with a live round in the chamber.

How do I know?

Well, I have one, that's how.

I thought that having a 7.62 x 25 or 9 x 19 in a TT33 (Hungarian and Chinese copies of Tokarev are available in 9 x 19) would be just the thing: It would be almost as powerful as a 45 Auto 1911, and not a whole lot larger than a Colt Pocket Pistol in 32 Auto or 380 Auto. The TT33 is slim and small.

When I got it and shot it, I found that it was quite heavy, as the trouble to machine excess metal out to save weight was not done, the grip was at an awkward angle for shooting, but especially, that IT WASN'T SAFE TO CARRY WITH A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

This keeps being mentioned on this board time and time again, over the years. The Soviets found the design deficient and essentially copied the Walther PP/PPK for their next service pistol -- they learned the hard way.

Consider that you are carrying concealed and in a scuffle, or changing a flat tire, the pistol falls out of its holster -- is this a chance to be risked? Not for me, brother, and if you do, I hope I'm not in range of wherever you are!

My Grandmother always said that "A word to the wise is sufficient."

I certainly hope so.

[timmy]

In India one rarely carries a pistol with one round in the chamber , i made my observation in that sense & by & large people use a safety lock even if the chamber is empty, in that situation even a half cock is good enough but in a larger sense you are correct

MAGNUM: your comments are noted. Please permit me to also explain the background to mine:

Firstly, IFG is a widely read website in a nation with well over a billion people. The post count can be deceiving, which one can see by how many guests are viewing at a given time. My point here is that, while there may not be so many posts, what is said here is read by a wide range of viewers. We might assume that people reading what is posted here are people who appreciate guns, but our readership is much wider than that.

IFG advocates actively for responsible and legal gun rights in India. Abhijeet has made many important contacts and is a public figure in connection with these efforts. Not everyone reading our forums is a friend to our cause for gun rights -- the primary reason IFG exists.

While many unfriendly to gun rights may read our pages, it is incorrect to assume that all of these unfriendly readers are ignorant about firearms. As we strive to show a nation where the concept of gun ownership is not always well-received, it is important for IFG to ALWAYS stand for safe, responsible, and legal gun ownership and use. Nothing is more damaging to our cause than presenting gun use and behavior that engages is recklessness, buffoonery, and illegal activity. Who wants a neighbor who would do such things living next door or walking next to us on the street?

This is why unsafe behavior always is objected to on these forums. It has no place in what we advocate here, and we don't want anyone, friendly or unfriendly, reading such behavior discussed here.

Secondly, the more time you spend here, the more you will see people asking the same question and the more you will see people asserting the same incorrect points. No matter that we have a search engine and that outside search engines are also available to find many topics of discussion and presentation of information on these boards, still the same questions are asked and the same things are said.

Just as India is a huge country geographically and population-wise, while what you say may be true: "In India one rarely carries a pistol with one round in the chamber," if the rare numbers who do unsafely carry a "Star" or Ashani with a round in the chamber, "rare" is still likely to be a large number. For instance, if only 1/10 of 1% carry these pistols with a round in the chamber, that's stiil going to be a large number. The only acceptable number for those who are not safe is ZERO.

Because of this, and because many new people are always reading our boards, we must be unceasing in pointing out unsafe practices. In other words, my comments were addressed to your post, yes, but they were very much also intended to be read by a much wider readership.

I hope that you can accept my comments in that light.

[MAGNUM]

In India one rarely carries a pistol with one round in the chamber , i made my observation in that sense & by & large people use a safety lock even if the chamber is empty, in that situation even a half cock is good enough but in a larger sense you are correct

MAGNUM: your comments are noted. Please permit me to also explain the background to mine:

Firstly, IFG is a widely read website in a nation with well over a billion people. The post count can be deceiving, which one can see by how many guests are viewing at a given time. My point here is that, while there may not be so many posts, what is said here is read by a wide range of viewers. We might assume that people reading what is posted here are people who appreciate guns, but our readership is much wider than that.

IFG advocates actively for responsible and legal gun rights in India. Abhijeet has made many important contacts and is a public figure in connection with these efforts. Not everyone reading our forums is a friend to our cause for gun rights -- the primary reason IFG exists.

While many unfriendly to gun rights may read our pages, it is incorrect to assume that all of these unfriendly readers are ignorant about firearms. As we strive to show a nation where the concept of gun ownership is not always well-received, it is important for IFG to ALWAYS stand for safe, responsible, and legal gun ownership and use. Nothing is more damaging to our cause than presenting gun use and behavior that engages is recklessness, buffoonery, and illegal activity. Who wants a neighbor who would do such things living next door or walking next to us on the street?

This is why unsafe behavior always is objected to on these forums. It has no place in what we advocate here, and we don't want anyone, friendly or unfriendly, reading such behavior discussed here.

Secondly, the more time you spend here, the more you will see people asking the same question and the more you will see people asserting the same incorrect points. No matter that we have a search engine and that outside search engines are also available to find many topics of discussion and presentation of information on these boards, still the same questions are asked and the same things are said.

Just as India is a huge country geographically and population-wise, while what you say may be true: "In India one rarely carries a pistol with one round in the chamber," if the rare numbers who do unsafely carry a "Star" or Ashani with a round in the chamber, "rare" is still likely to be a large number. For instance, if only 1/10 of 1% carry these pistols with a round in the chamber, that's stiil going to be a large number. The only acceptable number for those who are not safe is ZERO.

Because of this, and because many new people are always reading our boards, we must be unceasing in pointing out unsafe practices. In other words, my comments were addressed to your post, yes, but they were very much also intended to be read by a much wider readership.

I hope that you can accept my comments in that light.

Agree with everything you have said.